West Gatineau LRT & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Man, City staff was very deceptive with Council on what they were voting on. As I noted before, the report wasn't clear that it was NOT endorsing the STO option that allowed for pedestrianization of Wellington Street. Most of the councilors stated that they were supportive of pedestrianization. Leiper even directly asked whether the staff report would preclude pedestrianization, and Vivi Chi said something to the effect of "well future Council could vote to pedestrianize Wellington in the future". Vivi didn't make it clear that by voting for the staff report Councilors were effectively NOT endorsing STO's pedestrianization option.

Council was supportive of pedestrianization, yet voted for the staff report that recommended against pedestrianization. Why? Because staff was incredibly confusing with the presentation of their staff report.

*Edit - Menard and McKenney also asked again why the staff report seemed to be not recommending pedestrianization (which is true) - and Vivi/Manconi mislead council AGAIN. They were super confusing - its maddening. If I was a STO consultant trying to interpret this meeting/direction I would be super unsure about what Council wanted. The approved staff report does not reflect the priorities stated by Council.

To be fair, that's exactly what Leiper asked. (IIRC)

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

To be fair, that's exactly what Leiper asked. (IIRC)

It was, sort of, but it wasn't clear that City council was giving direction to the STO that the City of Ottawa does not want a pedestrianized Wellington option. If the STO takes the staff report at face value (and doesn't consider the loop, etc.), then the STO will come back to the City without advancing the pedestrianization option and City Council won't get a chance to vote on it again.

When Menard asked something to the effect of "should we remove the "with traffic" part of the staff report to keep our options open?" - Manconi said "that is consistent with recommending the staff report and the subsequent amended Fleury motion".

City staff should have made that clear, and they failed to. City staff tied pedestrianization to the loop option completely funded by the feds, which is much less likely to happen in the near term.

[J.OT13]

Tim Tierney proposed a motion yesterday asking that, if the Wellington option is chosen, the trams be branded in the "National" colours as opposed to the blue and green STO branding.

Interview on 1310, November 17 hour 1:

https://www.1310news.com/audio/the-rob-snow-show/

I hope the Aylmer-Ottawa tram, and any future STO tram, are considered part of the O-Train system. All lines on the same maps, same wayfinding, fare gates, ticket machines and "O" pylons. Operation of the Gatineau lines can remain in the hands of the STO.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Tim Tierney proposed a motion yesterday asking that, if the Wellington option is chosen, the trams be branded in the "National" colours as opposed to the blue and green STO branding.

Interview on 1310, November 17 hour 1:

https://www.1310news.com/audio/the-rob-snow-show/

I hope the Aylmer-Ottawa tram, and any future STO tram, are considered part of the O-Train system. All lines on the same maps, same wayfinding, fare gates, ticket machines and "O" pylons. Operation of the Gatineau lines can remain in the hands of the STO.

Haha! We'll see how that goes.

OK, if it's a downtown loop only (funded by the feds), sure.

But the full line from the western reaches of Gatineau with OC Transpo colours and livery (red and white with stylized maple leaves), with most of the construction and operation funded by Quebec and Gatineau?

[J.OT13]

Hubley passed a completely unrelated motion asking the the Mayor to send a strongly worded letter to the PM, Minister of Finance and Minister of Infrastructure to prioritize Stage 3 and the STO tram over a "sixth" interprovincial bridge. Because Hubley cares SO MUCH about the environment . Must be why he's always taking transit... NOT

Luloff passed a motion mandating the STO consult with the Ceramonial Guard, National Defence and Veterans Affairs on the location of Elgin station and the coordination of the Changing of the Guard.

Fleury's motion is a bit complicated, like a Omni Bus Bill cramming a bunch of stuff into one motion. 1. STO tram is not being disputed as it has many benefits 2. the location must be considered 3. Wellington option has many issues 4. underground is the better option 5. Wellington looks nice and should stay the same but the loop is a good idea (?) 6. the City of Ottawa and OC should participate in the loop study 7. reiterate the City of Ottawa's priority to the Feds (i.e. Stage 3) and that the STO tram does not impact Ottawa's priorities.

O-Train Fans posted a copy of each motion, along with the City Staff presentation and the meeting audio.

https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/news/...vember-16-2020

[Kitchissippi]

As much as pedestrianization in general appeals to me (I don't own a car), I really don't think it's practical or wise for Wellington to be closed to traffic. There is massive development slated for LeBreton and Zibi, and there are only two roads that link it to the CBD and Lowertown — Wellington and Albert. It's impossible to create new roads, it's just a cold hard fact of geography and topography. If you look at a map, you'd be a magician to solve that puzzle.

To leave Albert as the only road link downtown would be ridiculous and possibly adversely affect future growth. The plans for Lebreton have already been set in motion and Zibi is already under construction, compared to the undetermined TOD an Aylmer tram would even produce. To me, a tunnel is the only way to go.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

As much as pedestrianization in general appeals to me (I don't own a car), I really don't think it's practical or wise for Wellington to be closed to traffic. There is massive development slated for LeBreton and Zibi, and there are only two roads that link it to the CBD and Lowertown — Wellington and Albert. It's impossible to create new roads, it's just a cold hard fact of geography and topography. If you look at a map, you'd be a magician to solve that puzzle.

I don't think anyone is proposing to close Wellington west of Bank. Wellington would still connect from LeBreton into the core, just only as far as Bank. Those wanting to head further east would need to use either Lyon or Bank to Queen or Slater.

[J.OT13]

John Ruddy just signed on as a supporter of the loop. Does that guarantee Watson's support?

https://www.transitloop.ca/about

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Tim Tierney proposed a motion yesterday asking that, if the Wellington option is chosen, the trams be branded in the "National" colours as opposed to the blue and green STO branding.

Interview on 1310, November 17 hour 1:

https://www.1310news.com/audio/the-rob-snow-show/

I hope the Aylmer-Ottawa tram, and any future STO tram, are considered part of the O-Train system. All lines on the same maps, same wayfinding, fare gates, ticket machines and "O" pylons. Operation of the Gatineau lines can remain in the hands of the STO.

Good move. The colour of the trains is the main issue with running trams on Wellington .....

[J.OT13]

Wow, Dudas not supporting Hubley's motion on the "sixth" bridge. Says its coming out of "left-field", and Manconi agrees. She understands that we need a solution to remove downtown truck traffic and that the Mayor's tunnel is unrealistic.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

As much as pedestrianization in general appeals to me (I don't own a car), I really don't think it's practical or wise for Wellington to be closed to traffic. There is massive development slated for LeBreton and Zibi, and there are only two roads that link it to the CBD and Lowertown — Wellington and Albert. It's impossible to create new roads, it's just a cold hard fact of geography and topography. If you look at a map, you'd be a magician to solve that puzzle.

To leave Albert as the only road link downtown would be ridiculous and possibly adversely affect future growth. The plans for Lebreton have already been set in motion and Zibi is already under construction, compared to the undetermined TOD an Aylmer tram would even produce. To me, a tunnel is the only way to go.

I respectfully disagree. We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to completely revamp transportation in the capital and set an example for the rest of the country in sustainable transportation and city-building. Those new developments can support car-free living. In fact, I'm hoping we can slowly expand the car-free areas, and eventually remove most private cars from downtown altogether (delivery vehicles and contractors would be exempted).

[J.OT13]

During the Committee meeting, Brockington asked Plamandon about the possibility of using electric buses for the loop. Hubley picks up on that later asking why the STO's not considering electric buses instead. Where have these people been the last 10 years? The City of Ottawa has always been on Gatineau's back asking that they REDUCE the number of buses and that's what they will achieve with the tram. Why would you ask for electric buses instead? And has Hubley not read the STO reports (and he should have being the Transit Chair)? The STO did in fact consider buses (electric or diesel doesn't matter because capacity is the same). Buses are not an option, PERIOD.

Kavanaugh brought up the handful of Gatineau commuters heading west again. "Why the loop? Not everyone is going downtown. What about the west?" The vast majority are going downtown. You plan a system for the majority, not the minority. Get over it.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

During the Committee meeting, Brockington asked Plamandon about the possibility of using electric buses for the loop. Hubley picks up on that later asking why the STO's not considering electric buses instead. Where have these people been the last 10 years? The City of Ottawa has always been on Gatineau's back asking that they REDUCE the number of buses and that's what they will achieve with the tram. Why would you ask for electric buses instead? And has Hubley not read the STO reports (and he should have being the Transit Chair)? The STO did in fact consider buses (electric or diesel doesn't matter because capacity is the same). Buses are not an option, PERIOD.

Kavanaugh brought up the handful of Gatineau commuters heading west again. "Why the loop? Not everyone is going downtown. What about the west?" The vast majority are going downtown. You plan a system for the majority, not the minority. Get over it.

What is up with the obsession to reduce the number of buses downtown, when you would achieve much more by reducing the number of cars?

[sseguin]

STO Gatineau LRT/Tram survey.

We are conducting an unofficial survey of the proposed Gatineau LRT/Tram as well as the Loop. You can participate by visiting the link :

https://surveys.railfans.ca/index.php/965422?lang=en

[J.OT13]

We have a confirmation from the City of Ottawa that a tunnel would not form part of the loop. It's either the STO surface Wellington with loop (should the Feds pursue that option) or a STO tunnel and separate loop.

If it's 100% not possible (financially or politicly) to build a loop that includes the tunnel as part of it, then Wellington surface is the only option IMO. No point in having a tunnel under Queen, tunnel under Sparks and surface tram on Wellington. Two lines through downtown is highly desirable and would emulate Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (with Calgary and Edmonton well on their way to achieve the same). Three east-west lines all one block apart competing for ridership and confusing tourists would be ridiculous.

[Kitchissippi]

I think they should also look at the possibility of running the tram on Albert, with Slater turned into a two-way street. A potential larger loop could serve more destinations making it useful other than a tourist loop.



When the Alexandra Bridge is rebuilt, a cut and cover tunnel through Major's Hill Park could take the tram through to York Street, then to Waller past the Andaz, then to the M-K Bridge to complete the loop.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I think they should also look at the possibility of running the tram on Albert, with Slater turned into a two-way street. A potential larger loop could serve more destinations making it useful other than a tourist loop.

When the Alexandra Bridge is rebuilt, a cut and cover tunnel through Major's Hill Park could take the tram through to York Street, then to Waller past the Andaz, then to the M-K Bridge to complete the loop.

Would Slater not make more sense for the tram if we're looking to serve more destinations? The connection wouldn't be as seamless with CL but captures more traffic to the south.

Think including York, OAG, and the other side of Rideau Centre is smart, at least.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Would Slater not make more sense for the tram if we're looking to serve more destinations? The connection wouldn't be as seamless with CL but captures more traffic to the south.

Albert is closest to the Confederation Line on Queen making transfers easier.

Forgot to put a stop on Victoria Island

[Aylmer]

I'd be very concerned for a surface alignment on all those streets. Unless there's a real desire to limit car traffic north of Albert, the significant cross-traffic would throttle the line's capacity and speed to an unreasonable extent.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'd be very concerned for a surface alignment on all those streets. Unless there's a real desire to limit car traffic north of Albert, the significant cross-traffic would throttle the line's capacity and speed to an unreasonable extent.

I tend to agree. If it has to be a surface line, then Wellington is the only logical choice.