[Gatineau] New Hospital | 600 beds

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Aylmer or Le Plateau seems like a good bet. Access to Allumetières and the future Tram are pretty much a given. And considering Buckingham, (old) Gatineau and Hull are already served by hospitals, the quickly densifying west end is the next logical step.

The CAQ will have to invest heavily in the older hospitals as well to bring them up to par with Ottawa's facilities.

That's if the CAQ is still our government in 2022-2026. (My bet is they will be.)

And beyond.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's if the CAQ is still our government in 2022-2026. (My bet is they will be.)

And beyond.

PQ is now irrelevant and the people are sick and tired of the PLQ, so yeah, another 4+ years with the CAQ is near guaranteed.

Not a fan of many of their policies, but they have so far showed willingness improve the Outaouais' situation after decades of neglect.

[Tesladom]

Is full grade separation in the plans for des alumetieres? west of Hull?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

Is full grade separation in the plans for des alumetieres? west of Hull?

Referring to the Tramway?

[Acajack]

I think the answer is no to all those questions.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think the answer is no to all those questions.

Response on the Gatineau LRT thread.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=1266

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I'm pretty sure that land is slated for future retail, I think it might even be owned by a retail developer already.

EDIT: I looked it up and most of the land beside Canadian Tire is privately owned, except for a small parcel along the road that the City owns. It's zoned commercial. I'm pretty sure it's future lies in retail expansion. The plot I posted below is Half Residential/Half Commercial zoning and it's subdivided into a bunch of little lots with various owners. I don't think that Rona is long for this world, I could see it being bought out by the Government as part of an expropriation. Bonhomme Building Materials could use a new modern facility bought with expropriation funds as well.

My gut is going with part or all of this parcel:
[IMG]Screenshot 2021-02-04 080756 by harley613, on Flickr[/IMG]

That would be a solid place to have a hospital. And given the mini power station is down the street, could re-use that to support a hospital for backup power.

[J.OT13]

Some news on the health care re-organization planned for the Outaouais by 2036. This should not only greatly improve health care on the Quebec side of the NCR, but greatly reduce the burden on Ottawa's hostpital system.

JUSTINE MERCIER
Le Droit
12 avril 2021

Futur centre hospitalier à 1,5 G$: l'Hôpital de Gatineau deviendrait «communautaire»


Hôpital de Gatineau

La construction d'un nouvel hôpital universitaire de 600 lits «sur un site à déterminer» en Outaouais devrait se traduire par la conversion de l'Hôpital de Gatineau en «hôpital communautaire de soins ambulatoires» où seront maintenues l'urgence, les chirurgies d'un jour et des unités de santé mentale. Les coûts pour l'ensemble du projet sont évalués à 1,5 milliard$.

Le Droit a obtenu copie, par le biais d'une demande d'accès à l'information, de la version finale du plan clinique soumis au gouvernement par le Centre intégré de santé et de services sociaux de l'Outaouais (CISSSO). Le document de 315 pages permet de savoir de quelle manière la réorganisation des soins s'effectuera en prévision de l'ouverture d'un nouvel hôpital de 600 lits.

«Probablement» à Hull ou Aylmer

Alors que le CISSSO souhaite avoir trouvé un terrain vers la fin 2021 ou au début 2022, aucune information n'avait filtré jusqu'à présent quant aux secteurs où le futur hôpital pourrait être érigé. Le plan clinique indique toutefois qu'il devrait «probablement» être construit dans le secteur Hull ou dans le secteur Aylmer.

Le chapitre sur «l'offre de services proposée» ne laisse aucun doute sur l'ampleur du rattrapage devant être effectué dans le réseau de la santé de la région. «La population de la région ne bénéficie pas actuellement d'un réseau de santé et de services sociaux à la hauteur de ses principaux besoins», lit-on dans le plan clinique, qui a été rédigé en fonction de l'horizon 2036.

Les auteurs du document ne voient pas d'autre solution que la construction d'une nouvelle infrastructure . «L'analyse des installations hospitalières existantes mène à la conclusion claire qu'aucune d'entre elles ne répond aux besoins énoncés dans le Plan clinique 2036», est-il précisé. Le document souligne entre autres que «l'ajout de lits en surcapacité devient un mode régulier de gestion des lits afin de répondre aux besoins, et ce, dans tous les sites.»

Regroupement des soins spécialisés


Annoncé à l'automne dernier par le ministre de la Santé. Christian Dubé, ce projet prévoit un gain net de 241 lits d'hôpital dans la région. M. Dubé avait dit espérer que l'hôpital puisse recevoir ses premiers patients bien avant 2030.

Le plan clinique permet d'apprendre que sur les 600 lits du futur complexe hospitalier, il devrait y avoir :

• 348 lits de médecine
• 173 lits de chirurgies
• 67 civières à l'urgence
• 32 lits TARP (travail-accouchement-récupération-postpartum)
• 16 bassinettes de néonatalogie (exclues du total des lits)
• 25 lits de pédiatrie
• 22 lits de santé mentale pédopsychiatrie et adopsychiatre

Le nouvel hôpital réunira aussi toute une gamme de services spécialisés, de la cancérologie à la pédiatrie en passant par l'orthopédie, le centre de naissance, la néonatalogie, la cardiologie, les soins intensifs, l'ophtalmologie et les soins palliatifs, de même que des blocs opératoires. Bref, on devrait y retrouver «toutes les spécialités […] hormis la santé mentale».


Hôpital de Hull

Hôpital de Gatineau

L'Hôpital de Gatineau comptera pour sa part un total de 258 lits – 100 de santé physique et 148 de santé mentale pour la clientèle adulte – selon ce qui est indiqué dans le plan clinique du CISSSO. Avec trois étages consacrés à la santé mentale, l'Hôpital de Gatineau prendra ainsi la relève de l'Hôpital Pierre-Janet, qui deviendrait un centre de réadaptation en dépendances. La faculté satellite de médecine de l'Université McGill restera aussi à l'Hôpital de Gatineau. Une urgence d'une vingtaine de civières – avec l'ajout d'une «aire adaptée à la santé mentale» – resterait aussi en place à l'Hôpital de Gatineau.

Hôpital de Hull

«À court terme», l'Hôpital de Hull serait utilisé temporairement comme «swing space» pendant la durée des travaux de réaménagement nécessaires à l'Hôpital de Gatineau. «En conclusion, la solution immobilière proposée vise donc l'ajout de 241 nouveaux lits dans la région», précise le plan clinique. […] Présentement, le CISSSO a quelques projets d'infrastructures immobilières à ses hôpitaux de Hull et de Gatineau, qui pourraient ne pas être réalisés selon le scénario retenu.»

À plus long terme, «une partie» de l'Hôpital de Hull pourrait «servir d'installation temporaire durant des travaux majeurs dans d’autres installations». «Les espaces laissés vacants peuvent être utilisés pour usage administratif, limitant ainsi les frais de mise à niveau (par rapport à la rénovation de milieux de soins)», précise aussi le plan clinique.

Hôpital de Wakefield

Ces changements nécessiteront aussi le déplacement de 35 lits de «réadaptation gériatrique» à l'Hôpital de Wakefield. «Pour l'Hôpital de Wakefield, la fermeture des lits d'hospitalisation doit être envisagée compte tenu des données disponibles, lit-on dans le document de 315 pages. En effet, le taux d'occupation de lits de courte durée est passé de 100% à 74% ces trois dernières années et continue de diminuer.»


Hôpital de Wakefield

Coûts

Le plan clinique indique que l'ensemble des travaux nécessaires devraient coûter 1,54 milliard$, soit 1,42 milliard$ pour le nouvel hôpital universitaire, 100 millions pour le réaménagement de l'Hôpital de Gatineau et 25 millions$ pour un «entrepôt logistique incluant une buanderie régionale».

Le document souligne que «l’envergure des coûts mentionnés est très approximative étant donné l’avancement des analyses». «Les coûts présentés sont des coûts de construction et non des coûts de projet» et n'incluent pas les coûts pour acquérir des terrains, est-il ajouté.

L'estimation a été faite en excluant «les coûts de fonctionnement» et a été faite en «dollars d'aujourd'hui.»

Rapatriement

L'un des objectifs de la réorganisation du réseau en Outaouais est le rapatriement des soins consommés par des résidents de la région sur la rive ontarienne. Sans contenir d'estimation sur la valeur des sommes qui n'auraient plus à être versées à l'Ontario, le plan clinique du CISSSO mentionne que des plusieurs types de soins pourraient être rapatriés, entre autres en obstétrique et en pédiatrie.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/s...bb48f81dfb6801

[J.OT13]

Some more news on the new hospital. The Province is searching for a suitable site to build the new 600 bed facility in Hull or Aylmer and have launched a «avis d’intérêt ou demande d’information» to find a 150,000 square meter property.

Old Gatineau has now been officially eliminated from the search, and so are any properties under 100,000 square meters. For comparison, the Hull Hospital is on a parcel of land of 73,000 square meters. The site has to be outside an industrial or agricultural zone.

Hull

Based on LeDroit's analysis, Robert-Guertin sits on 51,000 square meters of land, and so would not be suitable.

The Province could consolidate some industrial land between St. Joseph and the Rapibus, Allumettières and Montclair for a total of 110,000 square meters.

Aylmer

The NCC owns a 341,000 square meter piece of land south of Allumettières where Des Grives would extended. A largely wooded area between two residential developments. A hospital here would be about 500 meters from the Tramway (up to a kilometer along the deepest part of a potential hospital complex).

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/g...2026d5b117da43

[TheBrain]

I find any Hull location would be too close to the existing hospital....

That NCC land south of des Grives is a good spot location wise. Part of it belonds to the Royal Ottawa Golf club.
NCC land on the left, Royal on the right. Join Louise-Campagna and Des Grives and it would give good access to that land. Leave a nice strip of trees between the site and the existing houses. Hopefully they could do a design so that it blends in with the forest and not have a giant square concrete block sticking out.

I put the Guertin site in the top left, at 50k sq.m it gives an approx. size to visualize.


There's also another tract of land at the south-west of McConnell and Vanier....

[Acajack]

I would bet on a Hull location. At least I hope so.

They will be transferring a bunch of essential services including all childbirth there.

Right now one of the issues with the Gatineau hospital on La Vérendrye (where all births are centralized) is that it's a pain to get to from the western fringes of Aylmer.

If we put this new hospital too far west, we'll just be replicating the same problem but on the west side of the city.

It's quite the distance getting from Buckingham or Masson to Aylmer when a woman is in labour.

(Just as it is from Eardley in Aylmer to La Vérendrye today.)

Central Hull has the best transportation links to all parts of Gatineau and the Outaouais - east, west and north.

I also believe the old hospital in Hull will be turned into a seniors' long-term care hospital, or used as swing space for the health system. It won't be a full hospital anymore.

The one on La Vérendrye will lose most of its services but will still have an emergency room.

[J.OT13]

It's strange to me that Gatineau only has, and will continue to only have, one child birth ward in the entire city. All (but CHEO, ironically, though it's connected to the General) of the primary care hospitals in Ottawa have a birthing ward (for a total of 4).

Considering every specialty will be centralized in this new hospital, Hull might be the best choice, though Aylmer will continue to be chronically underserved.

[GeoNerd]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's strange to me that Gatineau only has, and will continue to only have, one child birth ward in the entire city. All (but CHEO, ironically, though it's connected to the General) of the primary care hospitals in Ottawa have a birthing ward (for a total of 4).

Considering every specialty will be centralized in this new hospital, Hull might be the best choice, though Aylmer will continue to be chronically underserved.

Ottawa is almost 4x the population of Gatineau. Makes sense there are 4x the maternity wards. Having said that, there is no question that Gatineau's healthcare is atrocious. I agree, it is an embarrassment that the Quebec government needs to fix immediately. Not just talk about for the next 10 years. Gatineau has become a strain on Ottawa's health care system. I could just imagine the uproar if the roles were reversed. Let's hope this new hospitals happens in a timely fashion!

[Acajack]

Gatineau is actually extra $$$ (in the hundreds of millions in fact) for Ottawa's hospital system. Just sayin'.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

Ottawa is almost 4x the population of Gatineau. Makes sense there are 4x the maternity wards.

Not so sure that's a good justification. Geographical area is more important than population in this case. A women in labour from Buckingham should not have to go all the way to Gatineau (or Aylmer) to give birth. Maternity wards are a pretty basic service. I get why cardiology or cancer might be centralized, but emergencies and maternity wards should be offered in all hospitals.

I wonder how many maternity wards other Quebec cities of similar or smaller size have?

[TheBrain]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I would bet on a Hull location. At least I hope so.

They will be transferring a bunch of essential services including all childbirth there.

Right now one of the issues with the Gatineau hospital on La Vérendrye (where all births are centralized) is that it's a pain to get to from the western fringes of Aylmer.

If we put this new hospital too far west, we'll just be replicating the same problem but on the west side of the city.

Ah I see, I hadn't realized that they removing so many services and concentrating them. Then yeah that Hull idea is a good spot, right next to transportation/highways/etc...

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Gatineau is actually extra $$$ (in the hundreds of millions in fact) for Ottawa's hospital system. Just sayin'.

Do you just mean through patients paying for services in Ottawa, or is there more to it than that? I know that CHEO gets some funding from Quebec and explicitly includes West Quebec in its service area, but is there a net benefit to Ontario from that?

[GeoNerd]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A women in labour from Buckingham should not have to go all the way to Gatineau (or Aylmer) to give birth. Maternity wards are a pretty basic service.

I agree. Aylmer, Hull, and Gatineau, should all have major hospitals with all services. And smaller centres in the outlying areas (Pontiac, Buckingham) with maternity wards and more basic services.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A women in labour from Buckingham should not have to go all the way to Gatineau (or Aylmer) to give birth. Maternity wards are a pretty basic service. I get why cardiology or cancer might be centralized, but emergencies and maternity wards should be offered in all hospitals.

I don't deny that we are scandalously underserved here, but Buckingham to the hospital on La Vérendrye is about 15 minutes driving normally.

I assume that a lot of daddies from Buckingham often make it in less time than that, when the water breaks.

I don't think you can get from Orleans to the General or Montfort faster than that, and Orleans has over 100,000 people. Buckingham has about 10,000. Rockland has what 20,000 and is even further out.

This isn't to make this an Ontario-Quebec thing BTW. It's more a "Canadian" thing, and I actually think that at some point we just stopped building infrastructure and institutions. Or at least it didn't even come close to keeping pace with population growth in many parts of the country.

Buckingham actually has its own hospital with a small emergency room. But it's a holdover from the "old days". Same goes for Wakefield (though it's a fairly new building - but the institution itself goes way back). Nobody builds hospitals in places like Wakefield and Buckingham in today's Canada.

Logically a place like Orleans should have some kind of hospital. I know Montfort is building some kind of satellite facility there but I am pretty sure you still won't be able to give birth to a child there.

Even somewhere like Rockland should have a hospital of some kind.

If you look around you see how our mindset and how we do things has changed - that's why you find hospitals in much smaller communities like Alexandria.

[harls]

Both my kids were born here. My wife, who was a nurse at the time, wanted nothing to do with the Gatineau hospital.