Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M | 77.8M | 25F | 17F | 22F | 17F | 19F | U/C

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Well, obviously True North chose that site because they own it whereas they don't own all the other ones. Could they have bought another one? Probably but why? Or maybe nobody else wants to sell their lucrative parking lots. At the end of the day, it makes the most sense for the company to concentrate their projects for construction purposes at the very least.

With this tower going up, this is the first real cluster in Winnipeg since Portage and Main was closed off and turned into a barren freeway interchange. I'm happy they're cramming another one in there! Goodbye P&M hello Graham and Carlton!!!

Biggest downfall of downtown Winnipeg has always been its excessive size. Everything is too spread out preventing any real clusters/critical mass from forming. Sure they could have probably found a pointless parking lot in the middle of more parking lots and built a stumpy nothing building, thank god they didnt...

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Well, obviously True North chose that site because they own it whereas they don't own all the other ones. Could they have bought another one? Probably but why? Or maybe nobody else wants to sell their lucrative parking lots. At the end of the day, it makes the most sense for the company to concentrate their projects for construction purposes at the very least.

Is this actually a True North project? It seems to be somewhat separate. There is no reference to it on the True North Square website, which refers to the four buildings only even though it has been updated with other recent developments.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Is this actually a True North project? It seems to be somewhat separate. There is no reference to it on the True North Square website, which refers to the four buildings only even though it has been updated with other recent developments.

It is. The website for True North Square, Sutton Place, and this have always been different and didn't include much (if any) information on one another.

From CBC at the announcement:

"The building will cost between $125 million and $150 million, and is being constructed without any public money, said Jim Ludlow, president and CEO of True North Real Estate Development.

"This is a fully private-sector led partnership by True North and its partnership and Wawanesa," he said at a news conference Thursday."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...uare-1.5173584

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

With this tower going up, this is the first real cluster in Winnipeg since Portage and Main was closed off and turned into a barren freeway interchange. I'm happy they're cramming another one in there! Goodbye P&M hello Graham and Carlton!!!

I would hardly call P&M a freeway interchange since it bears absolutely no resemblance to one. Barren? Definitely but that only matters to people who actually give a crap. I, for one, don't. It's never made any difference to me in any way and frankly, I think it makes more sense to put people underground. Oh, I know some people here are very passionate about it but I doubt they'll be walking across that corner night and day to prove what a wonderful place it is to walk across.

[1ajs]

surface during rush hr is prolly dumb idea hence why underground should stay.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Spocket

I would hardly call P&M a freeway interchange since it bears absolutely no resemblance to one. Barren? Definitely but that only matters to people who actually give a crap. I, for one, don't. It's never made any difference to me in any way and frankly, I think it makes more sense to put people underground. Oh, I know some people here are very passionate about it but I doubt they'll be walking across that corner night and day to prove what a wonderful place it is to walk across.

Words of wisdom right there. The only people that care are the people that care!

If it has never made any difference to you, then why weigh in on the topic at all?

But you're right, I doubt the only people that care as they're the only ones that care, will walk across that corner night and day to prove what a wonderful place it is - as that's illegal and its blocked off as it's just a freeway intersection

[BAKGUY]

Should Wawanesa Tower end up at 23 floors, It might just reach the 100 metre mark which is what a true hi-rise starts at. If taller, due to land ratio etc. it might end up at 26, 28, maybe 30? That would get it closer to 360 Main height @ 117.
That would look awesome and give the nearby TNS square its signature tall skyscraper not to mention the impact on our skyline.
The current buildings all cancel each other out more or lees so far.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Kris22

Haha I was just thinking this. It's rare we have this kind of density in Winnipeg and I'd rather them get a variance and cram it in than move to a lot somewhere further away and build a stubby tower. Our downtown being large and spread out is what creates so many deadzones and I'd personally like to see all of Graham built up from the Bay to Main.

Yeah, it's almost like the planners want Wawanesa to put their head office on a 3 storey sprawler out on McGillivray instead. There is nothing about that proposal that strikes me as inappropriate for the area... there are buildings of near-identical heights on 2 of the other corners on that intersection, and the literal tallest building in Winnipeg is going up a few blocks down Graham. I am really baffled by what the planners are trying to protect in this instance.

[plrh]

Not every building needs a podium. There is nothing wrong with the odd tight canyon in a downtown.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, it's almost like the planners want Wawanesa to put their head office on a 3 storey sprawler out on McGillivray instead. There is nothing about that proposal that strikes me as inappropriate for the area... there are buildings of near-identical heights on 2 of the other corners on that intersection, and the literal tallest building in Winnipeg is going up a few blocks down Graham. I am really baffled by what the planners are trying to protect in this instance.

I don't think there is anything really nefarious going on here. It is just that those are the zoning rules for this site and the owner's would like a variance to change it. I'm sure it will pass. It just needs to follow the procedural rules. Maybe after this project proceeds, they need to review the rules going forward.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

I don't think there is anything really nefarious going on here. It is just that those are the zoning rules for this site and the owner's would like a variance to change it. I'm sure it will pass. It just needs to follow the procedural rules. Maybe after this project proceeds, they need to review the rules going forward.

Fair enough. It just gets me a little on-edge when there is a great proposal like this that can't be built as of right and requires a variance. It's not really ideal that something like Wawanesa, which is entirely appropriate for a downtown location, needs a variance in the first place... hopefully the zoning rules can be revisited to allow for reasonable projects like this to go forward without requiring what amounts to an exception that politicians may or may not grant depending on how they feel the morning of the meeting.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Biff

I don't think there is anything really nefarious going on here. It is just that those are the zoning rules for this site and the owner's would like a variance to change it. I'm sure it will pass. It just needs to follow the procedural rules. Maybe after this project proceeds, they need to review the rules going forward.

If the zoning rules are on the books then the city has no choice but to look at a variance. On the other hand, once the variance passes, it would probably easier to change the zoning rule, wouldn't it?

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

Words of wisdom right there. The only people that care are the people that care!

If it has never made any difference to you, then why weigh in on the topic at all?

But you're right, I doubt the only people that care as they're the only ones that care, will walk across that corner night and day to prove what a wonderful place it is - as that's illegal and its blocked off as it's just a freeway intersection

I bring it up for the same reason some people feel the need to shoehorn their opinion on the matter here at every opportunity.

I really don't care what they do with that corner. I just don't see what difference the "open" crowd think it's going to make. If you work in the towers then you're perfectly happy to take the concourse anyway as it's just a matter of an elevator ride. Opening the corner isn't going to result in 40 years of pent up demand being released. I mean that that corner will be just as dead after opening as before. Oh, sure some people will cross but will there seriously be enough to even make it look like people have been clamoring to cross at street level? I can't see it.

As for further extension of height at Wawanesa, I'm surprised that it's been extended this round. Office building space has now just been proven to not be as necessary as once thought. The city seems to have a problem with some access point for the tower's parking(?) and I'm not sure that this extension is going to pan out either. Well, not quite as envisioned, anyway. I can't see them needing more space, either. I don't think the city cares about the setbacks as much we think it does and will allow a variance on height with minor adjustments.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Spocket

I bring it up for the same reason some people feel the need to shoehorn their opinion on the matter here at every opportunity.

But... you don't care right? Why not brush over my mocking of the failures of P&M compared to the new success of Carlton/Graham? Seems like the usual "here's my opinion, not that I care or anything" of your avg edgy teen...

But, it doesn't really matter as its staying a freeway intersection as you very much like. Since in your very much emotionally charged opinion no one would ever walk there anyways.

My point original still stands, Carlton/Graham has a chance to be a real, complete intersection with density on all corners. The Success that was taken away from P&M years ago. Unless, you are looking to block pedestrians from this intersection as well?

[EspionNoir]

For traffic is important for density anyways. It’s safe to say change doesn’t happen overnight. I definitely cannot “see” the massive increase in foot traffic neither, but it’s a forecast of the future based on studying the effects of opening the intersection to foot traffic.

A lot of decisions have to be made with much uncertainty and many estimates. It’s simply impossible to make everything 100% obvious and certain in the real world. But there are many cases from other cities in the past that make it likely that opening the intersection is beneficial (not with 100% certainty, but this uncertainty is to be expected). Commitments must be made and adjustments will have to be done to tackle any unforeseen issues.

[Luisito]

I like the wawanesa project, at the same time I feel a little disapointed it won't be built some where more visible. Hydro and the other buildings around it will block it off. Hopefully they do add more height to it so it will stick out more.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Luisito

I like the wawanesa project, at the same time I feel a little disapointed it won't be built some where more visible. Hydro and the other buildings around it will block it off. Hopefully they do add more height to it so it will stick out more.

On one hand it would have been nice to see it go up on Portage, but on the other hand it's also nice to see the side streets get beefed up, especially considering that Portage has seen its share of significant development in recent years (Man. Hydro Place, Bell MTS Place, Centrepoint, Buhler Centre, if you want to go back that far then Portage Place and One Canada Centre).

[bomberjet]

Let's just hope Sutton Place gets finished.

[buzzg]

I think it's imperative that we open up P&M and get a proper RT station built there ALONG WITH a plan to develop that east side of Main – the no man's land between Downtown/Forks/Exchange.

Unless they're somehow hoping to put it right at the intersection like normal bus stops, it's almost a guarantee a P&M station would go on one (or a few) of the surface lots along Westbrook. That would unlock/necessitate some great TOD in that area, which would not only make opening P&M to pedestrians more attractive and used, but borderline necessary.

As I and many others have mentioned before, allllll of this needs to be looked at holistically. A P&M station at Westbrook/Portage East with a clear plan for new TOD there to link all 3 downtown neighbourhoods, and open the intersection, could be transformative. Then the rest of the South Main dominoes begin to fall.

[Winnipeg Grump]

Bringing this back to the TNS developments...

Pouring in the SE corner this morning.
There's a packer operating in the underground parkade (not pictured).