Here’s Why California Is Losing Population for the First Time

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I think he has a good point.

If you live or work within a mile of the ocean and can bike or walk, that’s one thing.

Beyond a mile, and it really is pointless for most people to base their living decisions on the ocean. You can’t realistically go to the beach on a regular basis without the hassle of traffic and parking and overall lack of time in daily life.

And if the beach is a 2x a year event, might as well live wherever and hop on a plane to the Bahamas

Well I grew up about 10 miles from the beach in South Central LA, of course not the best of neighborhoods but that didn’t stop us from enjoying the beach more than twice a year. Back then we there was no 105 Freeway so had to take the streets (imperial highway). We would do this sometimes after school on a nice warm day and it didn’t take us very long to get to the beach.

Although as teenagers back we then didn’t realize it was warm in the hood, but cool and overcast at the beach(lol). It also depends on what beach you’re speaking of in LA. If you’re trying to get to Santa Monica or Venice Beach yes it will take a while, yes the traffic and parking is real bad. But there are still a number of beaches in Southern California that you can go to that do not have the hassles of those popular beaches and many are even close by to a lot of average people.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

You do have to be fully committed though.

And we are.

But we got little kids.

Taking them to the beach is still such a ridiculously easy and low-cost win for family days. Out of I don't even know how many dozens of beach days now, our family has never had a single bad one. All 4 of us simply love the beach, and it never seems to get old.

But that won't last forever as they get older.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I think he has a good point.

If you live or work within a mile of the ocean and can bike or walk, that’s one thing.

Beyond a mile, and it really is pointless for most people to base their living decisions on the ocean. You can’t realistically go to the beach on a regular basis without the hassle of traffic and parking and overall lack of time in daily life.

And if the beach is a 2x a year event, might as well live wherever and hop on a plane to the Bahamas, Yucatán or Hawaii. I’ve lived in tons of beach towns and it’s remarkable how actually going to the beach is not the most popular past time.(Santa Barbara, Tampa-St. Pete, Naples, Miami)

As others have alluded to, going to the beach is not the only benefit of living near the ocean/water.

Weather regulation, access to fresh seafood, sounds of nature, improved mental health, increased physical activity.

Of course, there are numerous downsides as well. Crowds/traffic, sea level rise, erosion, corrosion, hurricanes, rip currents, sneaker waves, shark attacks.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by homebucket

As others have alluded to, going to the beach is not the only benefit of living near the ocean/water.

Weather regulation, access to fresh seafood, sounds of nature, improved mental health, increased physical activity.

Of course, there are numerous downsides as well. Crowds/traffic, sea level rise, erosion, corrosion, hurricanes, rip currents, sneaker waves, shark attacks.

Red tide is actually the biggest regular beach problem.

You have to understand that in Florida most beaches are not easily accessible so most of the benefits don’t actually exist if you don’t live close to the beach.

They tend to be on barrier islands with one or two bridges as access points. It’s not unusual to have 2 hour waits for popular beaches like Sanibel-Captiva.

[craigs]

Living near the coast in Southern California means access to the beach, yes--but more importantly, it means deliciously mild weather.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I think he has a good point.

If you live or work within a mile of the ocean and can bike or walk, that’s one thing.

Beyond a mile, and it really is pointless for most people to base their living decisions on the ocean. You can’t realistically go to the beach on a regular basis without the hassle of traffic and parking and overall lack of time in daily life.

And if the beach is a 2x a year event, might as well live wherever and hop on a plane to the Bahamas, Yucatán or Hawaii. I’ve lived in tons of beach towns and it’s remarkable how actually going to the beach is not the most popular past time.(Santa Barbara, Tampa-St. Pete, Naples, Miami)

He said a Venice Beach boardwalk home
He's wrong.

And I don't live near the beach and don't mind visiting Santa Monica or whatever multiple times a year
Not a hassle at all.

The bike path in the la ocean front is insane busy all year and it's 20 miles long.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by craigs

Living near the coast in Southern California means access to the beach, yes--but more importantly, it means deliciously mild weather.

Yeah, SoCal has the mildest weather on the coast. It gets too cold in coastal NorCal for there to be any benefit to living there.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, SoCal has the mildest weather on the coast. It gets too cold in coastal NorCal for there to be any benefit to living there.

What? No. Depends on your definition of mild. I absolutely LOVE 50-75 degree weather, which is what being near the coast allows the vast majority of the time (all the way to Vancouver) and what I would consider mild. 50 miles inland and it can be well outside of that range much of the time, and especially atrocious in the summer.

I will definitely grant that being near the Atlantic Ocean in the US has a lot fewer of these benefits, though it does still have some moderating effect. I wouldn't really care about being 10 or so miles from the ocean on the east coast, but it's an absolute requirement for me on the west coast because the Pacific just makes weather so phenomenal.

I think people really underestimate how awesome it is inside because of this effect too - yes, it keeps heating/cooling costs absurdly low, but to me the better impact is just no need for HVAC stuff to be on much at all. It's quiet. Humidity stays relatively constant. Etc.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, SoCal has the mildest weather on the coast. It gets too cold in coastal NorCal for there to be any benefit to living there.

...and it gets dark early everywhere during the winter, so the mild temperatures aren't of much benefit for doing outdoor activities during the week after work. Short days are also trouble for people like me who like doing long-distance hiking and biking.

People have the bad habit of saying they like living "near" or "by" something that they rarely engage with. I first witnessed this when I moved to Knoxville, TN, where the Smoky Mountains are sometimes visible in the distance. It takes a full 60 minutes, under the best traffic conditions, to drive from downtown Knoxville or the UT campus to the park borders, and another 20-30 minutes to park, change shoes, fill up a water bottle, and start hiking.

If the profile of the average Knoxvillian stumbling around the Wal-Mart parking lot is any indication, few make hiking a regular habit. Yet they love saying that they live near the mountains.

[SFBruin]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I will note that the relatively cloudy winters are less of a big deal in Seattle than I had thought.

The sun is only up for about 8-9 hours per day anyway, so must of the cloudy weather occurs during night anyway.

I think that it's a similar concept to what you were saying in Ohio.

[SFBruin]

Delete.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Gordo

What? No. Depends on your definition of mild. I absolutely LOVE 50-75 degree weather, which is what being near the coast allows the vast majority of the time (all the way to Vancouver) and what I would consider mild. 50 miles inland and it can be well outside of that range much of the time, and especially atrocious in the summer.

I will definitely grant that being near the Atlantic Ocean in the US has a lot fewer of these benefits, though it does still have some moderating effect. I wouldn't really care about being 10 or so miles from the ocean on the east coast, but it's an absolute requirement for me on the west coast because the Pacific just makes weather so phenomenal.

I think people really underestimate how awesome it is inside because of this effect too - yes, it keeps heating/cooling costs absurdly low, but to me the better impact is just no need for HVAC stuff to be on much at all. It's quiet. Humidity stays relatively constant. Etc.

Yep. Being in the 5-10 mile range from the actual coast is the ideal spot. The actual coast can be quite foggy and windy at least in the mornings (Santa Cruz, Half Moon Bay, Pacifica, the Sunset District in SF). Once you get to the Bay facing sides of the Peninsula (Mission District in SF, San Mateo down to Palo Alto) and the East Bay, the weather is excellent nearly year round. When you get too far inland, like Livermore/Tracy that's when it gets to be too hot in the summers.

I'm not familiar with LA and SD microclimates but I'm sure you see a somewhat similar effect down there as well.

[SAN Man]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I'm not familiar with LA and SD microclimates but I'm sure you see a somewhat similar effect down there as well.

Here's how it was on July 19th 2019, this is an accurate depiction of the microclimates of San Diego County during the summer. If I were to guess I would say that 85-90% of the county population lives in the areas that are reporting in at under 90 degrees.
As you move east away from the Pacific the humidity drops off, it's not as stifling as it appears. Alpine at 93 degrees is most likely more comfortable than El Cajon at 88.





In the winter, it's usually the reverse. Here is how it was on the morning of December 18th 2019.
Warmer along the coast, cooler away from the coast.

[homebucket]

Speaking of beaches and public transit, are there any cities that have rail stops at the beach?

In SF, we have three. One Muni Metro stop on the N Judah line at Judah & La Playa. The stop is approx 300 ft to Ocean Beach and 1000 ft to the shoreline. Another Muni Metro stop on the L Taraval line at 46th & Vicente. The stop is approx 525 ft to Ocean Beach and 950 ft to the shoreline. And the third is the Cable Car Powell/Hyde line, where the stop is approx 350 ft to the Aquatic Park beach and 400 ft to the shoreline.

[Chisouthside]

I think in Chicago the closest one is Loyola Red Line stop being five minutes from the closest beach. Morse and Jarvis are also both under half a mile walk.

Originally Posted by homebucket

Speaking of beaches and public transit, are there any cities that have rail stops at the beach?

In SF, we have three. One Muni Metro stop on the N Judah line at Judah & La Playa. The stop is approx 300 ft to Ocean Beach and 1000 ft to the shoreline. Another Muni Metro stop on the L Taraval line at 46th & Vicente. The stop is approx 525 ft to Ocean Beach and 950 ft to the shoreline. And the third is the Cable Car Powell/Hyde line, where the stop is approx 350 ft to the Aquatic Park beach and 400 ft to the shoreline.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Speaking of beaches and public transit, are there any cities that have rail stops at the beach?

In SF, we have three. One Muni Metro stop on the N Judah line at Judah & La Playa. The stop is approx 300 ft to Ocean Beach and 1000 ft to the shoreline. Another Muni Metro stop on the L Taraval line at 46th & Vicente. The stop is approx 525 ft to Ocean Beach and 950 ft to the shoreline. And the third is the Cable Car Powell/Hyde line, where the stop is approx 350 ft to the Aquatic Park beach and 400 ft to the shoreline.

A few in NYC. Obviously Coney Island, and lesser known Brighton Beach next door has a stop as well. Then there are several subway stops near the beaches on the Rockaway peninsula in Queens. Finally, the LIRR has a line that terminates at Long Beach on Long Island.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

I think in Chicago the closest one is Loyola Red Line stop being five minutes from the closest beach. Morse and Jarvis are also both under half a mile walk.

I think Thorndale is closest as it's less than 2 blocks from a beach, but it's a small, more intimate beach.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Speaking of beaches and public transit, are there any cities that have rail stops at the beach?

For LA's Metro Rail, the only one closest to a bona fide beach is the Downtown Santa Monica Station, which is some blocks from the beach and Santa Monica Pier.

Greater LA's Metrolink commuter rail and Amtrak share a station that's literally right on the beach and at the foot of San Clemente Pier, in San Clemente (Orange County). It's a nice train ride there, quite convenient.

Pinterest

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

I think in Chicago the closest one is Loyola Red Line stop being five minutes from the closest beach. Morse and Jarvis are also both under half a mile walk.

Redline thorndale stop is only a 5 minute walk to thorndale beach (it's a small pocket beach that connects to the much larger Hollywood beach during low water).

And metra's electric district has some stops reasonably close to several Southside beaches as well.

But yeah, generally speaking, chicago's rail lines don't go "to" the lakeshore (Chicago has one of the most thoroughly downtown-centric rail systems on the planet), they tend to parallel it a little bit inland, with several stops here and there that get walkably close enough to a beach.

That said, a great many of the city's east-west bus routes end in the lakeshore parks, so they're generally the best PT option for the vast majority of Chicagoans to get to a beach.

[Chisouthside]

yup, you and the previous poster are right, missed this one.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Redline thorndale stop is only a 5 minute walk to thorndale beach (it's a small pocket beach that connects to the much larger Hollywood beach during low water).

And metra's electric district has some stops reasonably close to several Southside beaches as well.

But yeah, generally speaking, chicago's rail lines don't go "to" the lakeshore, they tend to parallel it a little bit inland, with several stops here and there that get walkably close enough to a beach.

That said, a great many of the city's east-west bus routes end in the lakeshore parks, so they're generally the best PT option for the vast majority of Chicagoans to get to a beach.