[Halifax] The Pearl (1903 Gottingen) | 28 m | 8 fl | Completed

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Yes well donairs are not to trivial matter ..it is a very important matter

I was being sarcastic.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Just to make sure everyone is discussing the same facts:

- Rainnie Drive still exists
- The only portion that was renamed was the portion from Gottingen to Brunswick.
- It was done because the intersection of Rainnie and Gottingen has been redesigned and Rainnie now terminates at that intersection with a stop sign.

The street name at the prominent intersection of Rainnie Drive and Brunswick is seen by many visitors as they approach Citadel Hill. Cllr Mason has been aware of the issue since he received a copy of the letter from the solicitor for the developer on June 2 2015. The solicitor comments " Rainnie Drive and Gottingen Street do not become a 'continuous street' simply by virtue of the changes in traffic signs ". Scroll down to see the letter. http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...1124ca1412.pdf

The issue was kept secret from the public for more than 6 months because the solicitor pointed out that naming of streets was the responsibility of the council not the staff. HRM staff then had to research all the streets that had been named by staff, and once the data was assembled a report listing well over 1,000 street names was sent to council for approval. That report was the item immediately preceeding the report re Rainnie Drive.
Most people will think the change of a portion of Rainnie Drive as somewhat ridiculous.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I was being sarcastic.

Me too..lol

[IanWatson]

It was not simply a "change in traffic signs" as you and the lawyer insist. If you actually go look at the intersection (or even just the drawing further up in the report) you will see that the intersection has been physically altered and Rainnie now intersects the new Gottingen Street at pretty close to 90 degrees.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Me too..lol

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Colin May

You and your colleagues should be ashamed of what took place at Council, not once was the origin of the name Rainnie used during a discussion of what was scheduled to be discussed 'in camera'. I can assure you that if the documents had been made public on Friday you would have heard quite a public outcry.
The road was built in 1947 to alleviate east-west traffic and was named Gavin Rainnie Drive in memory of Major Gavin Rainnie who died on D-Day 1944. Council minutes in 1953 show a senior staff member telling council that the street sign needs to be painted 'Gavin Rainnie Drive' not 'Rainnie Drive.'
Surely you knew the origin of the name.
Surely you knew that for many years the Royal Canadian Legion, Nunavut Command had its HQ office at the beginning of Rainnie Drive at the roundabout.
I note the staff, not for the first time, have been making decision that belong to council and that last night council formally named 952 streets that staff had named without any authority.
Council hid the mistake in the two motions you moved.
I have notified Legion HQ of this disgraceful and unwarranted action.
Ironic that council has been keen to name ferries after soldiers who died in Afghanistan and marked their deaths with significant publicity and ceremony, only to then turn around and forget one whose family were and continue to be well known in Halifax. The first name 'Gavin' has been passed down through many generations.
It is not too late to reverse the mistake. An apology to relatives should also be offered.

No. Rainnie still exists, so there is no insult or slight made. Rainnie exists from Gottingen to the roundabout. Get a grip.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

No. Rainnie still exists, so there is no insult or slight made. Rainnie exists from Gottingen to the roundabout. Get a grip.

I know it still exists, I have driven through the new intersection,
Why was this kept secret for over 6 months ?
Your comments on Tuesday could not have been briefer.
The road is now 65% Rainnie and 35% Gottingen.
Can you explain why staff, the Mayor and you were so reluctant to make public the proposed name change back in June when you received the email from Peter Rogers ? If it was no big deal and easily explained why the secrecy ?

[portapetey]

Although I don't like the tone of this discussion and see no reason to sling so much mud at one city councillor, I do agree the name change is awkward.

If I understand correctly, if I were to drive from the Common to the waterfront, I'd now follow what is essentially one continuous road and watch its name change first from Rainnie to Gottingen - even though it is more or less perpendicular to the rest of Gottingen - then from Gottingen to Duke? Is that right?

This seems overly complicated to me. Why not just change the name of the whole thing - all the way from the roundabout to the waterfront - to Rainnie or Duke (I don't care which)?

Then your intersection becomes Brunswick & Duke, or Brunswick & Rainnie - instead of Brunswick & Gottingen & Duke which seems to imply that's it's a 5-way when it's not. (And get rid of the pointless traffic island splitting the right-turn lane onto Brunswick, while you're at it.)

There is a similarly ridiculous series of name changes in other parts of the city too, of course. NW Arm Drive/Dunbrack/Kearney Lake/Larry Uteck/Kearney Lake again/whatever, with that little wiggly tail of Kearney Lake going down to the Bedford Highway, more or less perpendicular from the rest of Kearney Lake, for example - what is this?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by portapetey

There is a similarly ridiculous series of name changes in other parts of the city too, of course. NW Arm Drive/Dunbrack/Kearney Lake/Larry Uteck/Kearney Lake again/whatever, with that little wiggly tail of Kearney Lake going down to the Bedford Highway, more or less perpendicular from the rest of Kearney Lake, for example - what is this?

That's OK. The total lack of directional signage in this town means that drivers new to the area will be confused regardless of what names are on the roads. All part of the master plan to eliminate cars and have everyone scrambling whatever way they desire on bikes.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's OK. The total lack of directional signage in this town means that drivers new to the area will be confused regardless of what names are on the roads. All part of the master plan to eliminate cars and have everyone scrambling whatever way they desire on bikes.

Sounds positively virtuous to me!

[Empire]

Originally Posted by portapetey

Although I don't like the tone of this discussion and see no reason to sling so much mud at one city councillor, I do agree the name change is awkward.

If I understand correctly, if I were to drive from the Common to the waterfront, I'd now follow what is essentially one continuous road and watch its name change first from Rainnie to Gottingen - even though it is more or less perpendicular to the rest of Gottingen - then from Gottingen to Duke? Is that right?

This seems overly complicated to me. Why not just change the name of the whole thing - all the way from the roundabout to the waterfront - to Rainnie or Duke (I don't care which)?

Then your intersection becomes Brunswick & Duke, or Brunswick & Rainnie - instead of Brunswick & Gottingen & Duke which seems to imply that's it's a 5-way when it's not. (And get rid of the pointless traffic island splitting the right-turn lane onto Brunswick, while you're at it.)

There is a similarly ridiculous series of name changes in other parts of the city too, of course. NW Arm Drive/Dunbrack/Kearney Lake/Larry Uteck/Kearney Lake again/whatever, with that little wiggly tail of Kearney Lake going down to the Bedford Highway, more or less perpendicular from the rest of Kearney Lake, for example - what is this?

I think someone should check with Emergency Services because this is exactly the type of scenario they don't want.

I'm sure they were consulted but let's move on. From the roundabout to Brunswick St., let's call it Citadel Dr.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I know it still exists, I have driven through the new intersection,
Why was this kept secret for over 6 months ?
Your comments on Tuesday could not have been briefer.
The road is now 65% Rainnie and 35% Gottingen.
Can you explain why staff, the Mayor and you were so reluctant to make public the proposed name change back in June when you received the email from Peter Rogers ? If it was no big deal and easily explained why the secrecy ?

It wasn't a secret. The adjacent property owners were made aware. It came up during consultations on the roundabouts 2 years ago. The naming policy is not a secret, it is quite public. This specific case was brought to Council when the work on the street was done. This is hardly a conspiracy. I didn't send a press release, but I didn't deny it was happening.

Colin - I know LOT OF THINGS you don't. It comes with the job. I hear about a lot of things that will happen, may happen, probably will not happen. I advocate and advise and provide insights. Not telling you does not signify anything one way or another. As long as there is no intent to hide anything here and policy and legal requirements are followed. I don't understand what you think should have happened, but I really must reiterate - get a grip.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

It wasn't a secret. The adjacent property owners were made aware. It came up during consultations on the roundabouts 2 years ago. The naming policy is not a secret, it is quite public. This specific case was brought to Council when the work on the street was done. This is hardly a conspiracy. I didn't send a press release, but I didn't deny it was happening.

Colin - I know LOT OF THINGS you don't. It comes with the job. I hear about a lot of things that will happen, may happen, probably will not happen. I advocate and advise and provide insights. Not telling you does not signify anything one way or another. As long as there is no intent to hide anything here and policy and legal requirements are followed. I don't understand what you think should have happened, but I really must reiterate - get a grip.

Why does one continuous street have two names when it was previously one name?

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

It wasn't a secret. The adjacent property owners were made aware. It came up during consultations on the roundabouts 2 years ago. The naming policy is not a secret, it is quite public. This specific case was brought to Council when the work on the street was done. This is hardly a conspiracy. I didn't send a press release, but I didn't deny it was happening.

Colin - I know LOT OF THINGS you don't. It comes with the job. I hear about a lot of things that will happen, may happen, probably will not happen. I advocate and advise and provide insights. Not telling you does not signify anything one way or another. As long as there is no intent to hide anything here and policy and legal requirements are followed. I don't understand what you think should have happened, but I really must reiterate - get a grip.

Read this : http://shapeyourcityhalifax.ca/North...ogswell-street
where it states in para 1 : " Access to Rainnie Drive will be from Cogswell Street. Rainnie Drive will become stop controlled at Gottingen Street while Gottingen Street and the remaining section of Rainnie Drive from Brunswick Street will become free flow. "

None of the 'Shape your city' articles re the roundabout and Rainnie Drive mention a reduction in the length of Rainnie Drive. Not one, unless I missed one.
The legal requirements were not followed in 952 previous cases and it took a lawyer at McInnes Cooper to point out council names streets not staff.

You ask : What should have happened ? :
1) Contact the Rainnie family and ask their opinion
2) Contact historians and academics and ask their opinion
3) Be upfront from the start and ask the public.
Is it too much to expect you and your colleagues to seek public input from the people you represent ?

Do you know if staff have informed the Department of Tourism ?

[Waye Mason]

1) Contact the Rainnie family and ask their opinion

No because the policy on street naming is clear.

2) Contact historians and academics and ask their opinion

Ditto - and especially because the name is STILL THERE on 65% of the road.

3) Be upfront from the start and ask the public.

No secrets were kept, the law and policy was followed. We followed it. The public expects us to make and then keep our policies.

Is it too much to expect you and your colleagues to seek public input from the people you represent ?
On following the public debated policy? We already have a policy.

Do you know if staff have informed the Department of Tourism ?

Of course not.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

[B]
2) Contact historians and academics and ask their opinion

Ditto - and especially because the name is STILL THERE on 65% of the road.

By that logic the remaining 65% stub should be called "Rain Drive".

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's OK. The total lack of directional signage in this town means that drivers new to the area will be confused regardless of what names are on the roads. All part of the master plan to eliminate cars and have everyone scrambling whatever way they desire on bikes.

Don't forget the Segways! I saw your comments on CBC.

In fact I saw the Segway article and thought to myself, "I bet KeithP will have the very first comment on this article." Sure 'nuff!

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

By that logic the remaining 65% stub should be called "Rain Drive".

LOL. Nice one.

Seems appropriate enough with Halifax weather.

I'd love to see all three street names turned to one. Rainnie is fine. So is pretty much anything else.

While we're at it, can we make Quinpool / Cogswell just one street? Bell / South Park / Young Ave.? Maybe Coburg / Spring Garden (though they're not quite lined up...)? Robie / Massachusetts (might be tricky, there's the long residential part of Robie that would have to be renamed...)? Lady Hammond / Duffus? Maybe Chebucto / North (again, trickier...)? Dutch Village / Titus / Lacewood? The aforementioned Gottingen / Novalea?

Lordy, our street names are messy.

[Haliguy]

My god guys it's a street name..get it over it

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

My god guys it's a street name..get it over it

I agree. Seems more to be a useful proxy for other axes to grind.

Pretty sure we have many other far more critical issues facing us that will actually have an affect on our lives. 1 month after it is renamed 99% of people will neither know nor care that it ever changed. Let's move on please.