HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #121  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 12:01 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 68,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post

The US has long been a country of relatively few problems. .
Great post, though I can't say I agree with this statement.

The U.S. excels in so many areas it boggles the mind, but it·'s also got significant (in some cases apparently insurmountable) problems, and they've been there throughout its history.

Its "highs" are often stratospherically high but its "lows" can be pretty darn low.

I say this as a citizen of a decidedly middling, "vanilla" first world country.
__________________
The Last Word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #122  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 1:51 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 68,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post
Seattle is beautiful, as is San Francisco. As they are both on the west coast, sadly, their beauty is being shadowed by their problems.

The US has long been a country of relatively few problems. So much so, that the new political ideologies, as some people label as ''liberal'' and ''for the people'' turn completely upside down, and put the liberties of people who aren't capable to exercise these liberties (for the good of themselves or the general population) ahead of the standard, law abiding and productive citizens.

The west coast is experiencing this type of political rot before the rest of the country, but eventually it will reach the whole country and cities will again be hostile places where few will want to venture out- in fear of stepping on hypodermic needles, human feces, or being attacked by mentally ill and/or chemically altered people.

Call it negative, call it fatalistic, but the country has chosen liberty of the oppressed to take more precedence than the majority. This doesn't work for long, and after chaos there will again be calm. But for a while it will be difficult and many people's lives will be changed negatively.

It's important to protect and help those who need it, rather than accept their negative lifestyles (regardless of choice or not) as normal and therefore strongly detract from the majority's liberties. That's not a democracy.
The concerns of the "majority" you describe are often dismissed out of hand as élitist, nimby or worse (alt-right, selfish) but these aren't élite people in general. They're working class, middle class and even upper middle class people who actually live their daily lives in the city and on its streets, ride transit, park their own cars when they drive, frequent all sorts of regular businesses with a diverse social mix...

True élite people can actually live their lives largely unencumbered by the (alleged) decline of civility. They generally get driven everywhere, don't park their own cars, don't walk any of the streets except the poshest ones if at all, frequent only "select" establishments, have their kids in top private schools, etc.

They're largely above it all. They're largely "off the grid" just like the homeless are. Only at the extreme opposite end.

Whereas the majority lives "in the grid". As it (allegedly) rots.

These concerns and frustrations are found and growing in social strata far beyond Joe the Plumber types in the Rust Belt. But they're only rarely taken seriously - because élites are largely unconcerned.

Is it any wonder then that people like Trump get elected?
__________________
The Last Word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #123  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 2:51 PM
uaarkson's Avatar
uaarkson uaarkson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Back in Flint
Posts: 2,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post
The west coast is experiencing this type of political rot before the rest of the country, but eventually it will reach the whole country and cities will again be hostile places where few will want to venture out- in fear of stepping on hypodermic needles, human feces, or being attacked by mentally ill and/or chemically altered people.
This is total hyperbole.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #124  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 3:42 PM
LAsam LAsam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,805
I will note that when I was in DC recently, it was probably the worst homelessness I've seen outside of the west coast. Not sure why DC seems worse than Boston, Chicago, and NYC... which I've also been to recently, but that was my observation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #125  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 3:48 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
Not sure why DC seems worse than Boston, Chicago, and NYC...
milder winter?

chicago's bitter-ass january cold can indeed get tiresome, but it's not entirely without its advantages.
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 12, 2019 at 4:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #126  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 3:49 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
I will note that when I was in DC recently, it was probably the worst homelessness I've seen outside of the west coast. Not sure why DC seems worse than Boston, Chicago, and NYC... which I've also been to recently, but that was my observation.
That's interesting. I haven't been to D.C. since last fall, but I can't remember seeing any homeless the entire time I was there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #127  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 4:05 PM
LAsam LAsam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That's interesting. I haven't been to D.C. since last fall, but I can't remember seeing any homeless the entire time I was there.
There were no homeless in the National Mall area that I saw. I observed homeless north of that on Connecticut Ave, Farragut Square, Franklin Square... etc.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #128  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 5:54 PM
edale edale is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
There were no homeless in the National Mall area that I saw. I observed homeless north of that on Connecticut Ave, Farragut Square, Franklin Square... etc.
Franklin Square has long been a DC homeless hub. When I lived in DC in '07-09 there were always a ton of homeless people in the park day and night. On Sundays, church groups would often come down and set up food serving stations in the park.

There have always been homeless people in cities. Unless the situation in DC has gotten much worse, it's a totally different scenario than what is occurring in the West Coast and I suppose Austin. Here it's not just a couple parks that have large concentrations, but literally all over the city. Under freeways, whole tent cities just right on major downtown street sidewalks, sidewalks in the middle of residential neighborhoods, government building plazas, metro stations, bike trails...everywhere.

This is in the middle of a residential section of Koreatown: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0667...7i16384!8i8192

This whole area turns into a dump every few weeks, again just in the middle of a neighborhood, though at least this is a commercial street:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0776...7i16384!8i8192

Pretty common scene right outside of tourist destination and gathering spot, Olvera St:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0572...7i13312!8i6656
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #129  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 6:09 PM
LAsam LAsam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
Franklin Square has long been a DC homeless hub. When I lived in DC in '07-09 there were always a ton of homeless people in the park day and night. On Sundays, church groups would often come down and set up food serving stations in the park.

There have always been homeless people in cities. Unless the situation in DC has gotten much worse, it's a totally different scenario than what is occurring in the West Coast and I suppose Austin. Here it's not just a couple parks that have large concentrations, but literally all over the city. Under freeways, whole tent cities just right on major downtown street sidewalks, sidewalks in the middle of residential neighborhoods, government building plazas, metro stations, bike trails...everywhere.
Agree with you. Definitely worse on the west coast than DC... by a long shot.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #130  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 6:32 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
This issue is suddenly being talked about everywhere and that's a good thing. And everywhere it's talked about that I've seen/heard, there's an acknowledgement that it's worse on the West Coast.

I think the reason for that is that on the West Coast you have a convergence of things that facilitate it: Tolerable year-round weather, relatively generous state/local benefits, political regimes (and judges, often elected so also dependent on politics) that seem unwilling to get tough, relatively transient populations of younger people with little stake in the future of the cities where they are starting out their careers and, when they vote, quite liberal inclinations (especially in their attitudes toward drug use).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #131  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 6:45 PM
dubu's Avatar
dubu dubu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: bend oregon
Posts: 1,449
maybe the reason washington and oregon are having these problems because there has never been any problems here. once theres like a earthquake or something big then people usually get smarter about the way we live. look at tokyo there has been a lot of earthquakes and those people get along well, theres no shootings or stealing or anything
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #132  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 7:09 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 21,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
milder winter?

chicago's bitter-ass january cold can indeed get tiresome, but it's not entirely without its advantages.
Fewer mosquitos and homeless.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #133  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 7:17 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Fewer mosquitos and homeless.
no water moccasins either.

in fact, very little in the way of venomous snakes and animals of any kind up in these parts....... which is nice.

a "freeze your nuts off" winter precludes many kinds of unwanted vermin.
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 12, 2019 at 8:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #134  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 8:01 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
no water moccasins either.

in fact, very little in the way of venomous snakes and animals of any kind up in these parts....... which is nice.

Biting Flies
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #135  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 9:50 PM
tablemtn tablemtn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 872
It seems sadistic to allow mentally-ill/drugged-up people to wander around in public harming themselves and slowly (often painfully) dying of a combination of drug abuse and communicable diseases like hepatitis C, tuberculosis, etc. Only a very cruel society or city government would permit that to happen. And not only to happen once, but to happen thousands of times in an ongoing manner.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #136  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 4:35 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
It is simply a myth that only West Coast cities and now Austin are grappling with large numbers of visible homeless. It is happening all over the Sun Belt from coast to coast. Just do a Google images search for any Sun Belt city with homeless camp and see for yourself.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=10...24.FmoJaF-fkqU

https://www.google.com/search?biw=10...24.UKONe_KtEUA

https://www.google.com/search?biw=10...mg.JdHZg1KVRZ0

https://www.google.com/search?biw=12...30.SNmdC-mFhRw

https://www.google.com/search?biw=12...24.10v-03jHtfg
I had no idea it was this bad outside of the main cities we've been discussing. I guess it's an American thing. I guess you have to move out of the cities to get away from it, but is that any guarantee in the long run?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #137  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 4:51 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,361
https://www.kvue.com/article/news/lo...8-eb66b11f29b9

Saw this on Twitter. Violent situation downtown Austin.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #138  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 6:24 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
This situation of people living on sidewalks without normal sanitation available has health implications:

One report claims there are now 12 million rats in LA. Rats are associated with a number of medieval disease like plague and typhus.

Quote:
Typhoid Fever, Typhus & Tuberculosis: Are L.A.'s Medieval Diseases Coming To Your City?
Chuck DeVore Contributor

Los Angeles has a growing problem with diseases borne by both flea and feces. An LAPD officer was just diagnosed with typhoid fever along with two more from the same workplace displaying symptoms. Meanwhile, cases of typhus, caused by a different bacterium, have soared in California from 13 in 2008 to 167 in 2018. In addition, there have been outbreaks of hepatitis A, tuberculosis, and staph in L.A. and other West Coast cities . . . .

The city of Los Angeles itself links the disease outbreaks to the area’s growing homelessness problem . . . .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckde.../#6a2a8e1e610d

Quote:
Filth from homeless camps is luring rats to L.A. City Hall, report says
By DAKOTA SMITH and DAVID ZAHNISER
JUN 03, 2019 | 8:35 AM

. . . CatsUSA Pest Control, brought in to assess areas outside City Hall and nearby buildings, warned that homeless people create “harborage for rodents,” according to the report issued Dec. 28 and obtained last month through a public records request by a frequent critic of City Hall.

The company said it found “poor sanitary conditions” — including leftover food, human waste and hypodermic needles — and recommended that the city clear away the homeless population living in the Civic Center . . . .

“The homeless are using the grated areas above the pits as their bathroom and relieving themselves,” wrote David Costa, building construction and maintenance superintendent. “This is also attracting the rats. Custodial will need to do some hazmat cleaning of the grates and the pits. There are even hypodermic needles being tossed in the pits along with human waste and other garbage” . . . .
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...603-story.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #139  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 11:58 AM
Nite's Avatar
Nite Nite is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,992
Homeless population given one-way tickets to leave town. 2011 to 2017


https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...kets_to_leave/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #140  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 12:12 PM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
obit anus, abit onus
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
We aren't actually alone in this or the first country to experience it. From everything I've read, Victorian London had an awful lot of the same problems. Actually many of Europe's great cities did at the end of the 19th century. Somehow, they brought things around--maybe because of the mass slaughter and deprivation of wartime conditions in 2 great wars. I don't know. But we need to find our own path.
Sure, they brought things around in Europe and everywhere else in the developed world -- somehow. Gee, did the solution to the problems of Victorian England involve building tons and tons of social and council housing and creating the NHS? Let's not think too hard about how they did it -- we need to find our own path. Sounds like that path will be giving these bums some tough love and putting more of them in prison. You shit on the street, we'll lock you up. Don't know why we didn't think of that before. Oh wait...



Yeah, there's no political bias to the conversation on SSP -- that's why after seven pages of discussion I'm the first one to point this out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:58 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.