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  #8161  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 3:31 AM
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Wasatch Wasteland Wasatch Wasteland is offline
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Did anyone know this was happening? Old SD100 Blue Line TRAX cars newly painted to match S70fleet.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46528492...vation-project
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  #8162  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 6:24 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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That's good, those old TRAX cars definitely need some renovating. I take the blue line frequently, so I'll see if I'm lucky enough to get one of the updated ones.

Now if only UTA would invest in upgrading the original stations. The ticket machines look like they haven't been replaced since TRAX opened and so many of them have been vandalized, not to mention they're riddled with technical issues.
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  #8163  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 5:18 PM
Utahn Utahn is offline
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It looks like UTA will be doing some pretty heavy construction at 400 South and Main Street in May closing the stations between City Center and Courthouse and requiring a bus bridge.

My main question is does this mean that the train switch there which has hindered the creation of the black line (line from the airport to the University) will be upgraded? If so, that would be great news and worth the temporary disruption.

https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/uta...hJcDxyIbRpSQdI
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  #8164  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 6:38 PM
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Yes, this construction will remove one of the roadblocks that was preventing UTA from regularly running the Black Line.

The other constraint is the unavailability of TRAX cars. There just aren't enough to run 4-car trains on the Blue and Red Lines and have additional 2-car trains running the Green and Black Lines at the same time.

The last constraint is of course Money to operate the new service, which may or may not be as large an issue as it was before. That's more Makid's department.

As far as the switches go, it looks like the crossover switches just south of City Center station as well as the junction switches at 4th south are all getting replaced and upgraded. The crossover switches are referred to within UTA as the 'Olympic' switches because they were used during the full 2 weeks of the Olympics as the end-of-line switches (trains could not run past City Center station because of "security concerns" ).
These switches were completely manual - somebody had to go out there and open up a panel in the street and actually throw the switch by hand. This meant that they were basically never used again, since it was just too much bother.
The crossover switches on 7th South were operated similarly until just a few years ago (2017?) when UTA replaced/upgraded them. They can now be thrown remotely from UTA's central traffic control. This helps keep the system going even when one track is out-of-service due to construction or accidents or whatever.

The Junction at 4th south was also constructed with very little foresight, since the Olympics were coming in a few months (the line opened in 2001), and it was assumed that a TRAX extension down 4th South toward the airport would be coming soon afterwards, requiring the complete reconstruction of the 4th south junction. But we all know how that story went... FrontRunner came along and stopped at the new Intermodal Center (the Gateway Mall having used the UP depot, where FrontRunner had been expected to stop), and the Airport Line was eventually moved into the median of North Temple street instead of using the railroad ROW west of 6th West, as had been originally planned. Plans for the 4th South line were never realized, and the junction at 4th South & Main was never rebuilt to allow more fluid traffic flow through the junction.

As for the shortage of TRAX cars... the S-70's that were delivered to UTA are uniqe for two reasons. 1) They are shorter (lengthwise) than regular S-70's so that they can make the tighter turns of the old 'Classic' cars, and 2) they are designed to be able to couple with the old 'Classic' cars so that they can run in the same consist. I wonder if this is the reason UTA is refurbishing the old 'Classic' cars now - perhaps they are also upgrading the cars' software/operating system to work with the S-70's?

They say they will have 4 cars refurbished by the end of the year. I wonder if 4 new trains would be enough to run the Black Line?
First, you would have to take 4 cars from the regular Blue line peak hour trains (run 4 3-car trains instead of 4 4-car trains), then do the same thing for the Red Line, then combine to make 4 new trains of one 'classic' and one S-70 each. If that sacrifice is OK, then you've got 4 new trains.

The Green Line schedule shows it is 22 minutes from the Airport to Galivan Plaza. The Red Line schedule shows it is 17 minutes from Courthouse up to the University Medical Center. 39 Minutes total. Now double that because we need trains in both directions... 78 minutes, which is too much. If a train leaves every 15 minutes, UTA would need to run 6 trains (6 trains*15 minutes = 90 minute headways, compared to 4 trains*15 minutes = 60 minute headways).
I suppose UTA could stop running the extra Red Line trains between the University and Fashion Place West during peak hours, but I like those. Besides, I think 10 minute service on all rail lines ought to be a high priority at UTA.
What we need is more cars, in addition to the ones we have and are refurbishing. Until that happens I don't see the Black Line or any expansion of service happening any time soon.
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  #8165  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 8:13 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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I hope that UTA doesn't cheapen out too much on the 4th South switch.

If SLC gets the 2030 Olympics, the 4th South extension, allowing the inner loop, will be sped up. There is also a chance that the 7th South extension (outer loop) will be done at the same time.

Now, if UTA doesn't cheapen out on the switch, they would be able to reuse the switch either at 7th South or along 4th West. This could save some money, albeit a small amount but savings are savings.

For the Black Line, it is planned to be funded with the full implementation of the SLC transit master plan. I think Phase 2 (full implementation) is scheduled for August of 2020 or 2021.

10 minute frequencies for all lines are planned. My understanding is that 10 minute frequencies would require both the Inner and Outer Loops to work. With the Olympics, maybe we can get 10 minute frequencies by 2035. Without the Olympics, I am not sure when we would see 10 minute frequencies.
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  #8166  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 3:56 PM
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  #8167  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 8:49 PM
Always Sunny in SLC Always Sunny in SLC is offline
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When the media describes the 4th S track rebuild as needed because the rails are worn out, is that accurate? I thought freight rails last 50 years, are commuter rail/LRT that different?
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  #8168  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 9:56 PM
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The rails are probably fine, especially in the straight sections. The curves might be a little ground down, but they could probably last a while longer. The frogs (the part of the switch where the rails form a triangle) are probably the worst off, but I doubt they need immediate attention.
The switching mechanisms - the moving parts underground - are probably what needs replacing. The moving parts wear out much faster than the track.
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  #8169  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 3:51 AM
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So are they putting in an additional switch to allow for the Black Line or not?
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  #8170  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 5:50 AM
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I've had a few UTA people tell me over the years that yes, the hardware required to run the Black Line will be included with the upcoming reconstruction. Whether they are right or not is a different matter, but all the recent reconstruction of switches (along 7th South, for example) have included upgrades, so it is pretty safe to assume that the 4th South switches will be upgraded too.

The tracks were always in place for the Black Line to run. Tracks were not the issue. The issue was the switching mechanisms, which UTA did on the cheap in order to be ready for the Olympics (but then 9/11 happened and trains were banned from running to the Stadium during the opening/closing ceremonies because of 'security'...). For the last 18 years, the switches on both tracks, (northbound and southbound, or eastbound and westbound) were physically linked together, and were driven by the same switch motor. This meant that UTA had to time the trains going through that junction perfectly; trains going straight had to go through together, and trains making the curve had to show up at very close to the same time in order to avoid delays. If a southbound train was approaching from Galilivan Plaza and a northbound train was about to turn east onto 4th south, for example, one of the trains would have to stop and wait for the other, even though their paths never crossed.

Three lines at 15 minute headways was possible without too many delays, mostly because the Blue and Green lines shared the same path through the junction. Adding in a fourth line in a unique routing was just too much. A single delay through the switch would have backed up TRAX the way that our single-track FrontRunner system does.

With the upgrades all the switches will be able to function independently. Theoretically three trains could proceed through the switch at once; a Blue or Green line train running south, a northbound Red Line train turning east, and a westbound Black Line train turning north. Now THAT would be something to see.
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  #8171  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 6:21 AM
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I work right at this intersection and I'd love to see that kind of efficiency happen with the trains. I know its a small gripe but it takes forever to cross 4th south if you happen to catch a red line coming through. Love to see a Black Line run regularly. Rose Park to U of U with no transfers seems really attractive for students who can only afford Rose Park cost of living.
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  #8172  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 10:42 PM
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Yeah I know many U of U students who would benefit from the Black Line. Not to mention being able to run additional trains on the current Red Line tracks would help the overcrowding that occurs during school hours. Think of how much that increased capacity would help both U of U students and people going to/from the airport.
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  #8173  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2019, 11:50 PM
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The 2018 Q4 ridership has finally been released:

https://www.apta.com/resources/stati...rship-APTA.pdf

Bus: 71.6K average daily riders
Trax: 57.7 average daily riders
FrontRunner: 19.2K average daily riders
Total: 115.7K average daily riders

The report only lists the change from Q3 to Q4 and the score for year to date. Being that I was wondering how service has changed since the UVX started, I did a direct Year over Year comparison (2017 to 2018).

Bus: Up 4.83% from Q4 2017
Trax: Down 8.41% from Q4 2017
FrontRunner: Up 7.26% from Q4 2017

I do believe that the majority of the change in bus ridership is due to UVX. Running the same numbers for 2019 should hopefully show an increase in ridership at least similar to the jump from 2017. This will be due to the extra service within SLC and the planned increases by UTA for just bus service all starting in August 2019.

The FrontRunner jump is probably related to the UVU and BYU passes. The Trax decrease is harder to find a cause for as there are many moving parts.

Trax should hopefully see an increase in a few years with additional commercial projects in Downtown SLC as well as additional TODs being completed.

The Black Line starting (2020 most likely) will also help increase ridership as well as help to transform North Temple.
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  #8174  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 9:42 PM
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This is not Salt Lake City related news, but I think we should be aware of transportation trends around the country.

In addition to the two major commuter rail electrification projects in North America (those being CalTrain in San Francisco (with the cars being assembled here in SLC) and Toronto) another commuter line is expanding its electrified service, and should provide an example for what an electrified FrontRunner service should look like.

The South Shore Line, which connects Chicago and South Bend, IN, is getting some major new funding, including $205 million to finish double-tracking their line between Gary and Michigan City (23 miles, when complete), and $12 million per year to build a new branch line to a city called Dyer.
When complete, the people of South Bend will be able to take an electric train into Chicago, a distance of 90 miles, in less than 90 minutes. That means trips will be made at an average speed of 60 mph, including stops.



FrontRunner, by comparison, currently runs at an average speed of 38 mph (81.2 miles/2 hours 7 minutes). That is a pretty sad comparison.

Even worse, the 'Future of FrontRunner' study anticipates trips taking even longer, creating an even slower average speed, even when electrification is included. This is because the study did not include a full double-tracking of the system. They did include it as a sort of hypothetical at the end, but also included in-fill stations for some reason - and of course it was the fastest, but deemed un-achievable in the foreseeable future.

Without more funding sources, the study may be right - double-tracked electrified trains are out of our current transit budget. But one important lesson we can learn from the other big electrification projects - San Francisco, Toronto, and now the South Shore Line - is that no big project ever moves ahead without a huge investment from the state and federal levels.

Imagine if the FrontRunner could have an average speed of 60 mph; Provo to Salt Lake in 44 minutes; Salt Lake Central to Ogden in 37 minutes. It is not impossible, electric trains on mostly double-track could reach that average speed without needing to break the 80 mph top speed of the current system. The efficiency of starting and stopping faster with electric trains, and the time saved by not needing to share a single track, is all it would take, as demonstrated by the South Shore.

I say if it can happen in Indiana, it can happen in Utah.
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  #8175  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 9:48 AM
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https://www.ksl.com/article/46543333...ts-mean-delays

Quote:
[UDOT] released what it's calling a "Top 10" list of its 169 projects on Wednesday, with connecting Mountain View Corridor to state Route 201 in the No. 1 spot.

The $335 million project expected to be completed in summer 2021 links the north-south highway to the existing freeway from 4100 South, an extension that includes four lanes and 13 new bridges.

Work is also being done on another segment of Mountain View Corridor, from Redwood Road to S.R. 73 in Utah County.

The next four projects on the list are along I-15.....
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  #8176  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 4:13 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Speaking of Mountain View Corridor, why can't they create a direct connection from the Usana Ampitheater parking lot? That place is so horrible to get out of after a concert, seems like they could so easily put an on-ramp going north and south directly from the parking lot.
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  #8177  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 5:21 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho View Post
Speaking of Mountain View Corridor, why can't they create a direct connection from the Usana Ampitheater parking lot? That place is so horrible to get out of after a concert, seems like they could so easily put an on-ramp going north and south directly from the parking lot.
Something like that could be done but the cost would fall almost completely on WVC to get something like that completed.

As for the MVC, with the extension from 4100s to the 201, there is a push to get the transit line up and running as it also must be complete by the time this MVC section is complete.

The latest on this is that UDoT is wanting UTA to do a Fast Bus on the same route as planned for the BRT phase 2. The planning for this Fast Bus doesn't appear to have the required dedicated lanes between 6200 South and 2700 South as required for Phase 1.

The original agreement between UDoT and the DoT stated that BRT was required for the 201 extension and LRT is required for the I-80 extension.

I wonder if the DoT will fine UDoT or other stop funding for other projects if the original agreement isn't followed.
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  #8178  
Old Posted May 6, 2019, 4:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho View Post
Speaking of Mountain View Corridor, why can't they create a direct connection from the Usana Ampitheater parking lot? That place is so horrible to get out of after a concert, seems like they could so easily put an on-ramp going north and south directly from the parking lot.
The ramps to/from Usana would be too close to 5400 to work properly. I suspect if Usana's owners had worked with UDOT *a lot* over the last 10 years, and been willing to kick in a few bucks, the state would have worked with them. I suspect the owners didn't bother.
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  #8179  
Old Posted May 17, 2019, 7:36 PM
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I found it!



Car 1013 is the first car to be released from the modernization overhaul, complete with the Pepsi-can paint scheme. I didn't get to ride on it, but it looked pretty nice as I walked by it.
I was under the impression that the ADA ramps had been improved, but as I walked past they seemed to be exactly the same as the old cars:



I had been curious if UTA would splurge on a system that did away with the 'high block' on the train platforms altogether, such as they do on Chicago's commuter rail system:
Video Link


...but clearly those would be slower and more expensive to install. The benefits would have been that the 'Classic' cars would have been free to operate on any route, and all new stations for the Blue Line extension south in to Utah County could be built without the 'high block' (wheelchair ramp) portion of the platforms.

(Here's an idea - UTA is going to need more TRAX cars for the Blue Line extension, and those cars are almost certainly going to be Low-Floor cars ((unless UTA does something frugal like buy used cars from some other LRT system)), perhaps UTA will buy enough low-floor cars to completely replace the extended Blue Line fleet. This will leave enough 'Classic' cars to run a Salt Lake Central - Fashion Place West line, which would improve the frequency of trains in that core area.)

In other news, the development exactly west of the Ballpark Station is coming along. The old building has been demolished and now foundation work is ongoing. I was delighted to see that they left the trees! I wish more developments could be so accommodating.
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  #8180  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 12:18 AM
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The Xfinity and Riverton Music locations on 4700 S and Bangerter have closed. Has UDOT moved up the schedule on the 4700 S interchange?
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