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  #7061  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 11:34 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Anthony Leblanc just said on CTV he may be interested in a pop-up stadium in Halifax for the CFL until the stadium is built.
He also said he doesn't want to own and operate the stadium, he wants a non-profit to own and operate it.
And he insisted the $20,000,000 is up front when Murphy said the money from HRM would only come when the stadium is built.
Does LeBlanc think we are stupid or does he have a comprehension problem - the staff report clearly states that the money would only be available when the stadium is complete
" Authorize the CAO to negotiate a Contribution Agreement substantially in accordance with terms outlined in Table 1 of this report, to provide for a one-time contribution of $20M towards the cost of construction of a community stadium to be payable upon substantial completion of construction. " see page 2 of staff report
https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...1210rc1514.pdf

and on page 4 : " HRM’s one-time contribution would be payable upon both Substantial Completion and successful commissioning of the stadium being completed, and as per the key conditions of this term sheet. Payment would be estimated to occur in fiscal 2022-23 or 2023-24 "
     
     
  #7062  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 12:14 AM
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Halifax agrees to contribute $20M toward construction of stadium for CFL team
The Canadian Press, December 10, 2019

HALIFAX -- A business group hoping to land a CFL franchise for Halifax got a lease on life Tuesday when regional council voted in favour of a one-time $20-million contribution toward construction of a stadium in the East Coast city.

Following a lengthy debate, councillors voted 10 to 7 to accept the funding recommendation from city staff -- provided certain conditions are met.

The proponents need to find an acceptable site with public transportation links, and the money would be paid only after construction is substantially completed.

Anthony LeBlanc, the founding partner of Schooner Sports and Entertainment, expressed relief following the council meeting, saying the decision was a "watershed moment" for the business group's initiative.

"This could have gone very much the other way where we would have been pretty much dead in our tracks," LeBlanc told reporters.

"We are excited that the process is moving forward. Now there is some teeth in this thing, there's some real commitment from Halifax Regional Municipality, and based off conditions that we feel very comfortable that we will be able to manage."

The business group had proposed building a $110-million, 24,000-seat stadium in Shannon Park on land near the city's MacKay Bridge that was formerly used for military housing.

But a staff report recommended against the Shannon Park site in favour of finding another. Halifax Mayor Mike Savage said while the stadium issue is far from settled, the project remains alive thanks to work put in by city staff.

"The team here at the city did tremendous work in analyzing this and saying, 'Some of these proposals don't make any sense to us. Is there one that does?' And the one they came up with is certainly one I can support."

The staff document said the proposed Shannon Park site is severely encumbered by a CN rail line and poor transportation access, meaning the municipality would likely have had to invest in a new ferry terminal nearby and three new ferries, adding tens of millions of dollars in costs.

The report said while such a stadium would add valuable infrastructure to the city, the financial options proposed by SSE would require a considerable amount of public funds that are dependent upon the success of an "untested Halifax CFL franchise and Halifax market."

Despite its reservations, the staff report noted that a partnership with the private sector offers a chance to build a stadium where the private partner carries the majority of the cost and the risk.

The report recommended the city take no ownership in the stadium, make no loan guarantee and not cover ongoing capital or maintenance costs.

Halifax chief administrative officer Jacques Dube said a final funding agreement and site would have to be formally approved by council before the stadium project ultimately moves ahead. He said that would also be contingent on some sort of provincial involvement, which hasn't been determined yet.

LeBlanc acknowledged that there is still a lot of work to do, including finding new land and securing financing for the stadium. He said his group also needs to get the province to buy in.

"It's now over to the province for them to make their decisions of if and how they will participate," he said. "The concepts of hotel tax levy increases and car rental taxes are simply that, ideas that are out there. But we are very open to working with the province in a manner that makes the most sense for the province."

Council's decision on Tuesday came after SSE's proposal narrowly averted being killed outright in October when council voted nine to eight to proceed further with the staff study.
     
     
  #7063  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Anthony Leblanc just said on CTV he may be interested in a pop-up stadium in Halifax for the CFL until the stadium is built.
Steve Murphy interviews Schooner Sports and Entertainment president Anthony Leblanc about today's vote at Halifax Regional Council on a staff report recommending support for a CFL stadium -- with conditions.
     
     
  #7064  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:21 AM
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Anthony Leblanc just said on CTV he may be interested in a pop-up stadium in Halifax for the CFL until the stadium is built.
I watched the interview

To be fair, LeBlanc began by reiterating his original position that the team might play for a year or two in Moncton while the Halifax Stadium was built. It was only on subsequent discussion with, and a couple of leading questions by Steve Murphy that LeBlanc said that a temporary pop-up stadium in Halifax might be an option.

Steve Murphy loves to stir the pot of regional jealousies and competition especially Moncton vs Halifax.
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  #7065  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 1:30 PM
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I might be wrong, but I see this as the end of SSE's proposal. Seems to me like the $20 million contribution is a shrewd way of saying HRM does not support SSE's stadium while looking like they support a stadium. Everyone is putting on a big forced smile and saying it's a big win, but that $20 million is so far from SSE's request I can't see how it all pencils out, unless they did already have a viable go-it-alone plan and were just hoping to get some gravy from HRM.
     
     
  #7066  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 2:41 PM
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It does seem like lukewarm support, yes, and it quite definitely puts the ball in the provinces court. The province will have to come up with at least matching funds to make this project viable. I doubt that the feds will get involved.
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  #7067  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I watched the interview

To be fair, LeBlanc began by reiterating his original position that the team might play for a year or two in Moncton while the Halifax Stadium was built. It was only on subsequent discussion with, and a couple of leading questions by Steve Murphy that LeBlanc said that a temporary pop-up stadium in Halifax might be an option.

Steve Murphy loves to stir the pot of regional jealousies and competition especially Moncton vs Halifax.
I don't think it's going to go over well with Halifax and Nova Scotia taxpayers after being asked to contribute significant $ to construction of the stadium to host the CFL team and the city of Moncton/Province of N.B. gets the economic benefits for the first season or two without putting any $ toward this.

A caller on The Rick Howe Show this morning on NEWS 95.7 after Anthony LeBlanc was on the show said he wants to know why they aren't calling the team the "Halifax Schooners" or "Nova Scotia Schooners" if Halifax and Nova Scotia are the ones funding construction of the stadium for the CFL team.
     
     
  #7068  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 2:02 PM
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It was all very strategic by HRM, I agree. I cannot see SSP finding this in any way acceptable. So with no chance of it actually going ahead, those who voted in favor (who likely represent the sentiment of a majority of residents in their district) can say "I voted for this but those other bad Council members and unreasonable HRM staff shot it down", while those who voted against and likely represent the sentiments of a majority of voters in their districts can say "I was against this and look, I did the right thing".
     
     
  #7069  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 3:29 PM
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I don't think it's going to go over well with Halifax and Nova Scotia taxpayers after being asked to contribute significant $ to construction of the stadium to host the CFL team and the city of Moncton/Province of N.B. gets the economic benefits for the first season or two without putting any $ toward this.

A caller on The Rick Howe Show this morning on NEWS 95.7 after Anthony LeBlanc was on the show said he wants to know why they aren't calling the team the "Halifax Schooners" or "Nova Scotia Schooners" if Halifax and Nova Scotia are the ones funding construction of the stadium for the CFL team.
Moncton undoubtedly will kick in some money to upgrade the Medavie Blue Cross Stadium if the Schooners call Moncton home for a year or two, especially for washrooms and concessions. They will also have to expand the stadium to at least 12,000 seats (maybe 15,000). These of course will be temporary bleachers, but there is still a cost.

There is also the value of the goodwill in demonstrating that the Schooners will indeed be a regional team. A year or two in Moncton perhaps might mean an extra 1,000 fans per game driving down to Halifax on game day after the team moves. I'm sure Anthony LeBlanc is well aware of this.

LeBlanc is also from eastern NB, and has a good working relationship with Moncton Mayor Dawn Arnold. I dare say that his experiences dealing with the city of Moncton so far have been a lot more positive than they have been with the city of Halifax.

As for your disgruntled Haligonians calling in to the Rick Howe Show, every one of them bitching about the team not being called the Halifax Schooners because the team is in Halifax is just feeding the negative perceptions out there about how Haligonians feel about the ROTM (rest of the Maritimes).

I know that the manner in which this is handled over the next year or so will make a big difference to me personally in terms of how many times a year I go out of my way to drive down to Halifax for a game. It might be the difference between three times a year or perhaps once every two years.

Moncton is the next closest biggest market for the Schooners. If LeBlanc does something to piss Monctonians off, this could cut into the teams bottom line - big time.
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  #7070  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 5:21 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Moncton undoubtedly will kick in some money to upgrade the Medavie Blue Cross Stadium if the Schooners call Moncton home for a year or two, especially for washrooms and concessions. They will also have to expand the stadium to at least 12,000 seats (maybe 15,000). These of course will be temporary bleachers, but there is still a cost.

There is also the value of the goodwill in demonstrating that the Schooners will indeed be a regional team. A year or two in Moncton perhaps might mean an extra 1,000 fans per game driving down to Halifax on game day after the team moves. I'm sure Anthony LeBlanc is well aware of this.

LeBlanc is also from eastern NB, and has a good working relationship with Moncton Mayor Dawn Arnold. I dare say that his experiences dealing with the city of Moncton so far have been a lot more positive than they have been with the city of Halifax.

As for your disgruntled Haligonians calling in to the Rick Howe Show, every one of them bitching about the team not being called the Halifax Schooners because the team is in Halifax is just feeding the negative perceptions out there about how Haligonians feel about the ROTM (rest of the Maritimes).

I know that the manner in which this is handled over the next year or so will make a big difference to me personally in terms of how many times a year I go out of my way to drive down to Halifax for a game. It might be the difference between three times a year or perhaps once every two years.

Moncton is the next closest biggest market for the Schooners. If LeBlanc does something to piss Monctonians off, this could cut into the teams bottom line - big time.
I don't put a lot of stock in the Rick Howe show or any of those call-in shows. I look at them as having the same validity as the comments sections of news articles. Honestly, it seems that some callers think that they, personally are paying for these large projects, and that somehow they wouldn't have to pay taxes if nothing was built - all the while enjoying the amenities built that they personally enjoy but not making the connection that tax money was used to pay for it. I find whenever my judgement lapses and I decide to turn on one of those call in shows, I just find myself yelling at the radio...

Also, I still don't get the 'competition' between Moncton and Halifax - what's that all about? Talk about apples and oranges... must be a lot of bored people out there with nothing else to think about.
     
     
  #7071  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 5:35 PM
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Moncton is the next closest biggest market for the Schooners. If LeBlanc does something to piss Monctonians off, this could cut into the teams bottom line - big time.
I would argue Charlottetown/P.E.I. may soon be the next closest biggest market outside of Nova Scotia:

2014-2018 Population increases:
  • Halifax _______ +23,453
  • Charlottetown __+8,035
  • Moncton ______ +6,996
     
     
  #7072  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I don't put a lot of stock in the Rick Howe show or any of those call-in shows. I look at them as having the same validity as the comments sections of news articles. Honestly, it seems that some callers think that they, personally are paying for these large projects, and that somehow they wouldn't have to pay taxes if nothing was built - all the while enjoying the amenities built that they personally enjoy but not making the connection that tax money was used to pay for it. I find whenever my judgement lapses and I decide to turn on one of those call in shows, I just find myself yelling at the radio...
My late mom used to call those kind of radio programs "open-mouth shows" in a tone dripping with contempt. Ick Howe has taken that genre to new lows.

But I disagree with your comments about who is paying for what. We are all paying for many of the wasteful projects HRM in particular has initiated in recent years. There is an attitude among some on Council, Mason, Austin and a few others most notably, that more spending is always better especially if it is on HRM-run initiatives versus privately-run things. As a supposedly-functioning level of govt, HRM has proven time and time again in recent years that they are inept at delivering services and infrastructure. This year they ran a surplus yet still increased taxes, in my view to pay for even more spending in this election year in order to try to buy votes.

We need a return to frugality and respect for who is paying the bills HRM is running up - namely, us, the taxpayers. Not all spending is good spending and there needs to be some respect shown by our elected reps to those of us are funding them and their electric dreams of grandeur. At some point the gravy train HRM has been feeding from will reach the end of the line and all those 6-figure salaries and bloated upper management ranks will become unsustainable. A reckoning is inevitable, but the degree of bloodletting could be reduced if some fiscal sanity is exercised sooner rather than later.
     
     
  #7073  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 5:49 PM
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I would argue Charlottetown/P.E.I. may soon be the next closest biggest market outside of Nova Scotia:

2014-2018 Population increases:
  • Halifax _______ +23,453
  • Charlottetown __+8,035
  • Moncton ______ +6,996
Maybe in 100 years. Moncton has a CMA population of about 155,000. The Charlottetown CA population is about 70,000.

And Moncton is still closer to Halifax than Charlottetown is, and we don't have the built in penalty of a $50 bridge toll.

But this doesn't matter, because there is nothing you like better to do than pull Moncton's chain. What happened q12, did somebody from Moncton once kick your dog???
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  #7074  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:00 PM
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I would argue Charlottetown/P.E.I. may soon be the next closest biggest market outside of Nova Scotia:

2014-2018 Population increases:
  • Halifax _______ +23,453
  • Charlottetown __+8,035
  • Moncton ______ +6,996
Actually, given those relative growth rates, maybe Halifax should be keeping a look out over their shoulder too q12. Charlottetown may be nipping on your heels soon as well...........
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  #7075  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
I would argue Charlottetown/P.E.I. may soon be the next closest biggest market outside of Nova Scotia:

2014-2018 Population increases:
  • Halifax _______ +23,453
  • Charlottetown __+8,035
  • Moncton ______ +6,996
Is this a joke? If Charlottetown gains on Moncton by 1 000 people every four years, it would take literally hundreds of years to pass.
     
     
  #7076  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:27 PM
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Is this a joke? If Charlottetown gains on Moncton by 1 000 people every four years, it would take literally hundreds of years to pass.
It was just q12 being q12........
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  #7077  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:28 PM
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Getting Monctonians worked up is not a difficult task on these forums...

I guess for comparison the New England Patriots in Boston draw fans from all over the New England states. However Boston pro sport fans don't really have any rivalry with other New England states on the pro sports level.

As per MonctonRad it sounds like people in Moncton will have to drop their bizarre obsession of competing with Halifax before they support the Atlantic Schooners.
     
     
  #7078  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:34 PM
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Do people from London, Ontario threaten to not watch pro sports in Toronto or Hamilton unless they hold some home games in London (Although the Argos might do better attendance wise in London )

Makes you wonder if this discussion would be happening if the Maritimes were ONE province of nearly 2 Million.
     
     
  #7079  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 7:05 PM
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Is this a joke? If Charlottetown gains on Moncton by 1 000 people every four years, it would take literally hundreds of years to pass.
It's not a joke. If you read my post carefully you would have saw that I wrote Charlottetown/P.E.I.

January 1st, 2020 population estimate for Charlottetown including all of P.E.I. is almost 160,000. Moncton would be around 155,000.

Halifax is about 450,000.
     
     
  #7080  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 7:22 PM
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My late mom used to call those kind of radio programs "open-mouth shows" in a tone dripping with contempt. Ick Howe has taken that genre to new lows.
I have to say I agree with your mom's opinion!

Quote:
But I disagree with your comments about who is paying for what. We are all paying for many of the wasteful projects HRM in particular has initiated in recent years. There is an attitude among some on Council, Mason, Austin and a few others most notably, that more spending is always better especially if it is on HRM-run initiatives versus privately-run things. As a supposedly-functioning level of govt, HRM has proven time and time again in recent years that they are inept at delivering services and infrastructure. This year they ran a surplus yet still increased taxes, in my view to pay for even more spending in this election year in order to try to buy votes.

We need a return to frugality and respect for who is paying the bills HRM is running up - namely, us, the taxpayers. Not all spending is good spending and there needs to be some respect shown by our elected reps to those of us are funding them and their electric dreams of grandeur. At some point the gravy train HRM has been feeding from will reach the end of the line and all those 6-figure salaries and bloated upper management ranks will become unsustainable. A reckoning is inevitable, but the degree of bloodletting could be reduced if some fiscal sanity is exercised sooner rather than later.
I can't completely disagree with your comments as I feel that the city has failed time and again to give us good value for our tax dollars, especially in the realm of efficient transit - how many times have we heard discussions about rail transit, fast ferries, a third crossing (with included transit options), etc. etc., and all we get are rearranged bus routes and bicycle lanes...

That being said, as the city grows, it will be more expensive to keep things running efficiently, and upgrades to infrastructure will be needed as the strain on existing systems increases. However, another aspect of a growing city is the need for large projects that benefit the population in general, and I feel that Halifax has continually shied away from committing to grow the city in that manner - to the point that we are already behind where many think we should already be.

My point about the radio pontificators is that the only way for us to have large facilities that can improve the quality of life for a large percentage of the citizens is by pooling our money (i.e. the tax base) in order to make these large projects happen. While I completely agree that wasteful spending should be avoided, the term 'wasteful' seems to have taken on a subjective meaning, whereby some people think that anything we spend taxpayers' money on is wasteful, unless they can see a tangible benefit for them, personally, but even then they seem to resent having to pay taxes. IMHO, wasteful should be objectively based on whether (A) the funds are available to do it, and (B) whether the costs associated are considered to be reasonable in comparison with other similar such projects in other parts of the country.

Regardless, I do understand it's difficult to get a consensus on ideas like this, but going back to the talk shows, I do not think that many of these callers are representative of the general population. And since it's not clear whether councilors are actually attempting to represent their constituents' interests, or just reflecting their own personal views, I think large projects like these should come down to an informed vote by the people paying the taxes. So, then it would be up to the citizens to decide on which project their hard-earned money should be used.

In terms of the salaries paid to staff, I see that as different topic but one that needs to be addressed. It all comes out of the same pork barrel, but this is more an internal management problem, rather than a choice of which large projects to spend money on.

Just think, for example, if there was a plebiscite where citizens can vote on, for example whether to spend $20 million on a stadium or more bike lanes plus a bridge flyover, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more people would want a stadium than the bike lanes... and in that case, the majority will have spoken. Or make it a vote for 3 out of 5 projects, or a simple yes or no for each project... whatever. At least the people will have the choice, rather than some random councilor attempting to shoot down some particular project because it doesn't fit with their personal beliefs.
     
     
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