PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I'm glad that the city was able to secure grant money, but I still think that this was a land grab by an agency that typically builds suburban garbage at an astronomically high cost per unit. Instead of demolishing beautiful rowhomes that had great bones, the PHA could have elected to renovate them and put them back into productive use.

I hope that the PHA has learned lessons from its past projects, but I don't have much confidence in that agency to build quality projects that conform to the given urban environment.

The Centennial Commons project (by a non-profit group) near the Mann is a great example of what can/should be done. Existing row homes were renovated, gaps were filled with new construction, and vacant lots were filled with sympathetically designed modern structures.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I'm glad that the city was able to secure grant money, but I still think that this was a land grab by an agency that typically builds suburban garbage at an astronomically high cost per unit. Instead of demolishing beautiful rowhomes that had great bones, the PHA could have elected to renovate them and put them back into productive use.

I hope that the PHA has learned lessons from its past projects, but I don't have much confidence in that agency to build quality projects that conform to the given urban environment.

From what I remember when they were developing this project, they're going rowhome style and not the weird low-density route. I'm not sure if plans have changed since then

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I'm glad that the city was able to secure grant money, but I still think that this was a land grab by an agency that typically builds suburban garbage at an astronomically high cost per unit. Instead of demolishing beautiful rowhomes that had great bones, the PHA could have elected to renovate them and put them back into productive use.

I hope that the PHA has learned lessons from its past projects, but I don't have much confidence in that agency to build quality projects that conform to the given urban environment.

PHA has built a lot more than the single homes near Fairmount. People act like those are typical PHA redevelopment style homes. That was done on purpose and for a reason, whether people agree or not 20 years later. They are not typical designs. PHA is developing the lot near Temple where the 2 story low rise projects used to sit, the project looks nothing like the Nehemiah development. Neither do PHA developments in East Falls, Southwark or MLK Plaza.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by City Wide

My two cents, up until the last ten days I'd say the biggest trouble Kenney has had in his term is in what he hasn't done, which for me is most clearly shown by the huge increases in spending and very little to show for it. He has mentioned many good and interesting actions, but as much as anything it means the City has been treading water. Little baby steps like increasing the funding to the Historic Commission while certainly not nothing, they haven't gotten close to allowing preservation in the City to move forward, to take big steps. That's just one example

But, I hope that going forward and dealing with the stressed budget, police department reform (again and never ending!) and looking at institutional racism in a meaningful way (not very easy) gives him a chance to define his time in office, one way or the other.

As salaries increase spending increases. When people toss around "big spending increases" with no specifics it SOUNDS like they are suggesting a massive increase in the number of programs and contracts when in fact it's most money for increased paychecks. PPD and PFD get their contracts through arbitration so they are not real negotiations. The PPD has the largest budget and thus the largest departmental payroll. Kenney's biggest program expansion is rebuild that is not funded through standard tax revenue. Aside from that, he really hasn't even launched any high profile, big spending intiatives. Nutter is the only one of the last 4 mayors that didn't launch ONE major economic development or neighborhood focused spending program. The point is most mayor's pick at least one signature program to leave their mark and those usually come with price tags.

[cardeza]

They are posting stuff here once again:

http://www.rising.realestate/46-unit...ouse-on-watts/

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by cardeza

As salaries increase spending increases. When people toss around "big spending increases" with no specifics it SOUNDS like they are suggesting a massive increase in the number of programs and contracts when in fact it's most money for increased paychecks. PPD and PFD get their contracts through arbitration so they are not real negotiations. The PPD has the largest budget and thus the largest departmental payroll. Kenney's biggest program expansion is rebuild that is not funded through standard tax revenue. Aside from that, he really hasn't even launched any high profile, big spending intiatives. Nutter is the only one of the last 4 mayors that didn't launch ONE major economic development or neighborhood focused spending program. The point is most mayor's pick at least one signature program to leave their mark and those usually come with price tags.

In a very quick check, meaning I'm not 100% sure of these figures and what they mean, the 2010 City budget was $2.3B and the 2020 budget is $4.95B, so more then double in ten years. No one denies that pay goes up, and supplies get more costly, and the City has been trying to boast it's obligations to fund various pension programs that the City has not properly funded for a long time. Having said all that as givens I still say that I see the City treading water at best with its basic city services---trash, streets, protection, justice, schools. Never mind trying to do something new and creative, like removing junk cars. I remember Nutter being interviewed before he took office, and I was impressed that one of his goals was to plan for and manage City growth, instead of always responding to a city getting smaller. And he did some of that, and had to fight council every step of the way.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by City Wide

In a very quick check, meaning I'm not 100% sure of these figures and what they mean, the 2010 City budget was $2.3B and the 2020 budget is $4.95B, so more then double in ten years. No one denies that pay goes up, and supplies get more costly, and the City has been trying to boast it's obligations to fund various pension programs that the City has not properly funded for a long time. Having said all that as givens I still say that I see the City treading water at best with its basic city services---trash, streets, protection, justice, schools. Never mind trying to do something new and creative, like removing junk cars. I remember Nutter being interviewed before he took office, and I was impressed that one of his goals was to plan for and manage City growth, instead of always responding to a city getting smaller. And he did some of that, and had to fight council every step of the way.

It will take some research (and more than 5 minutes) to determine if things have or have not happened, but I will say I do not understand people that complain about too much spending only to then say they want to see more being done. Usually doesn't work both ways. Kenney has put a LOT of money into paving (including adding enough equipment to add another paving crew) which is one thing Nutter cut and never restored due to the recession. If you are saying you don't believe that is the case because you still see potholes that isn't really proof of lack of spending. Undoing the deficit in street maintenance is a multi-year enterprise. Poor street conditions are one of my pet peeves so I play very close attention to that and the paving program over last 2 years has definitely gotten much larger than during Nutter's tenure.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by cardeza

It will take some research (and more than 5 minutes) to determine if things have or have not happened, but I will say I do not understand people that complain about too much spending only to then say they want to see more being done. Usually doesn't work both ways. Kenney has put a LOT of money into paving (including adding enough equipment to add another paving crew) which is one thing Nutter cut and never restored due to the recession. If you are saying you don't believe that is the case because you still see potholes that isn't really proof of lack of spending. Undoing the deficit in street maintenance is a multi-year enterprise. Poor street conditions are one of my pet peeves so I play very close attention to that and the paving program over last 2 years has definitely gotten much larger than during Nutter's tenure.

I agree with what you're saying, you can't have it both ways. But one additional aspect to consider is the spending effective and are the departments in City gov't well managed. Not that this is true, but if the City purchased additional street paving equipment but didn't use it, that would be poor management. Use of a years worth of PPD budgeted overtime in 4 months, as happened last year, is poor management. From the very limited contacts I have in the City gov't the conscious (3 out of 4people) is Kenney's people have good desires but don't have the smarts to be good leaders, they're over matched. But that is a small group of people working in 3 departments, but it does go along with my personal inter action with the City.

[summersm343]

46 Units Planned for 13th & Cambridge Next to Warehouse on Watts





Read more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/46-unit...ouse-on-watts/

[summersm343]

17 Units Rising in Fishtown



Read more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/17-unit...g-in-fishtown/

[City Wide]

^^^^^
wow, that seems a bit large, out of scale, for the rest of what you see in the photo. And talk about big ugly blank walls-------

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I agree with what you're saying, you can't have it both ways. But one additional aspect to consider is the spending effective and are the departments in City gov't well managed. Not that this is true, but if the City purchased additional street paving equipment but didn't use it, that would be poor management. Use of a years worth of PPD budgeted overtime in 4 months, as happened last year, is poor management. From the very limited contacts I have in the City gov't the conscious (3 out of 4people) is Kenney's people have good desires but don't have the smarts to be good leaders, they're over matched. But that is a small group of people working in 3 departments, but it does go along with my personal inter action with the City.

The paving program is published in early summer/late spring every year. The 2019 program was FAR larger than what we were doing a few years ago. They are spending more in order to pave more. There are numerous things to ding Kenney on, but not caring about quality of the streets doesn't seem like a great target. IN addition, many major thoroughfares in Philly are maintained and repaved by the state. But they have been doing more as well.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The paving program is published in early summer/late spring every year. The 2019 program was FAR larger than what we were doing a few years ago. They are spending more in order to pave more. There are numerous things to ding Kenney on, but not caring about quality of the streets doesn't seem like a great target. IN addition, many major thoroughfares in Philly are maintained and repaved by the state. But they have been doing more as well.

What's the argument? It sounds that you think Kenney has been a decent mayor, I don't. I certainly wasn't using street paving as anything other then aa possible theoretical example of mis-management, not something that actually happened. I also think Kenney's remaining years will show us one way or the other, as there are some hard issues on the table. I think this argument has reached the end of the line

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by City Wide

What's the argument? It sounds that you think Kenney has been a decent mayor, I don't. I certainly wasn't using street paving as anything other then aa possible theoretical example of mis-management, not something that actually happened. I also think Kenney's remaining years will show us one way or the other, as there are some hard issues on the table. I think this argument has reached the end of the line

You mentioned the poor quality of the streets as an example of the poor job he was doing. The problem is decades in the making and it was bad when we had superior mayors. What I'm saying is that objectively, he has put money into addressing the backlog of under-maintained streets...it's not a matter opinion. The financial commitment and the volume of paving has increased substantially since Nutter's tenure. I wasn't arguing, I was passing on information that you didn't seem privy to.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by cardeza

You mentioned the poor quality of the streets as an example of the poor job he was doing. The problem is decades in the making and it was bad when we had superior mayors. What I'm saying is that objectively, he has put money into addressing the backlog of under-maintained streets...it's not a matter opinion. The financial commitment and the volume of paving has increased substantially since Nutter's tenure. I wasn't arguing, I was passing on information that you didn't seem privy to.

Ive been here 5 years and the streets are far better than they were when we moved.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Ive been here 5 years and the streets are far better than they were when we moved.

Why did they let the streets get so bad anyway?

Im glad they are finally fixing many many streets including repouring whole blocks sidewalks as well.

But there's no reason for Philly to let streets go decades without repaving.

I guess the big whigs only drive on 95 to 676 to Penn square and never saw the despair of the cities infrastructure.

I shouldn't be shocked though, this is the same city that let a whole part of subway line rot away to the point of no repair.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Why did they let the streets get so bad anyway?

Im glad they are finally fixing many many streets including repouring whole blocks sidewalks as well.

But there's no reason for Philly to let streets go decades without repaving.

I guess the big whigs only drive on 95 to 676 to Penn square and never saw the despair of the cities infrastructure.

I shouldn't be shocked though, this is the same city that let a whole part of subway line rot away to the point of no repair.

Money. Isn't that nearly always the reason why anything gets neglected? When things need to be cut paving (along with park maintenance, etc.) was often near the top of the list. Ideally you should be paving your streets once every 10 years in this climate (less down south where winter is milder) which would mean they should be paving like 120 miles a year (approx) and during Nutters tenure I think it dropped down to about 25% of that a few years due to austerity. The more years you neglect to hit the 10% mark, the larger the backlog gets which means you have a greater number of streets that are far beyond their expected life. Needless to say, Philly is way behind on the replacement cycle. The State was also at fault since they are responsible for a large % of the major avenues in Philly, but since they got more funding several years ago they have been increasing their output as well.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Money. Isn't that nearly always the reason why anything gets neglected? When things need to be cut paving (along with park maintenance, etc.) was often near the top of the list. Ideally you should be paving your streets once every 10 years in this climate (less down south where winter is milder) which would mean they should be paving like 120 miles a year (approx) and during Nutters tenure I think it dropped down to about 25% of that a few years due to austerity. The more years you neglect to hit the 10% mark, the larger the backlog gets which means you have a greater number of streets that are far beyond their expected life. Needless to say, Philly is way behind on the replacement cycle. The State was also at fault since they are responsible for a large % of the major avenues in Philly, but since they got more funding several years ago they have been increasing their output as well.

100% It is always money, however I Philly using that excuse is a cop out our neighboring areas NJ/NY have twice as many roads in Newark/NYC and they Pave them At a good rate.

I understand Philly has many more budget issues but they went to far letting the infrastructure go like that.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by City Wide

From the very limited contacts I have in the City gov't the conscious (3 out of 4people) is Kenney's people have good desires but don't have the smarts to be good leaders, they're over matched. But that is a small group of people working in 3 departments, but it does go along with my personal inter action with the City.

This.

They're clearly incompetent. They have massive amounts of cash they didn't have previously. And the city is underperforming in most respects.

Street paving aside. Apparently.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by City Wide

^^^^^
wow, that seems a bit large, out of scale, for the rest of what you see in the photo. And talk about big ugly blank walls-------

Thats not unusual in Philly anymore, I see apartment buildings like that around Philly all the time. its the new normal.

I see this a lot around American st/Francisvillie.