Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[TheMatth69]

Hey guys,

I'm planning a trip to Vancouver in june, but I'm hesitating between Flair & Swoop. What would you guys recommend ?

Also when I try to book a flight with Swoop, it gives you the option to fly to abbotsford but after selecting the dates it appears that there's a stop along the way. Isn't Swoop flying non-stop from YOW to YXX ? I seem to get conflictual information.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

Hey guys,

I'm planning a trip to Vancouver in june, but I'm hesitating between Flair & Swoop. What would you guys recommend ?

Also when I try to book a flight with Swoop, it gives you the option to fly to abbotsford but after selecting the dates it appears that there's a stop along the way. Isn't Swoop flying non-stop from YOW to YXX ? I seem to get conflictual information.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

Swoop is flying "direct" service to YXX from YOW in the sense that "direct" means same-plane service via YEG. So, same flight number and you don't need to disembark in YEG during the stopover. Similar to Porter's YHZ-YOW-YTZ (and vice versa) where passengers remain on the plane in YOW who are flying YHZ-YTZ. I have no experience with Swoop as they are new to our market. In the airline industry "non-stop" would mean as it sounds, but "direct" means same-plane service (usually). All non-stop flights are direct flights, but not all direct flights are non-stop. You usually only see this happen with regional or discount airlines, not the big boys like AC, WS, United, Delta, etc.

I have had a few friends fly Flair specifically on the YOW-YVR route without problems. If you look at this route's history on FlightAware, it's one of their better performing "on-time" routes. Would be a good option if you don't mind the red-eye back to YOW and a late evening arrival into YVR.

I think with both Swoop and Flair, you'll get similar experiences, with Swoop being more established (been around longer). Since neither airline operates the route daily, if for some reason the flight is cancelled, you'd likely be re-booked on their next available flight (which could be the next day, or the day after). They won't route you via a different airline or within network flight.

Honestly, if you are choosing only between Flair and Swoop, I think both offer similar options and trustworthiness.

WestJet and Air Canada also fly YVR (which I'm sure you know) at 2x daily and 3x daily respectively by late June.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

It certainly is.. BUT.. my last flight on one was CDG-SFO on United. I had a window and it was a rare, BEAUTIFUL clear day over the north Atlantic. I was so excited about flying over Iceland, Greenland and the Canadian Arctic... I can be entertained for hours simply staring out the window.

Well - as you know, windows are electronically dimmable. The Flight Attendants decided to OVERRIDE the individual settings and keep the plane totally dark for the entire flight!!! I asked them to release mine.. but no go.

He said the VFFs like it that way.. the cynical me says it's just the FAs like to keep everyone asleep and pacified to minimize their workload.

787... never again.

Totally dark?! I would be quite upset as well. They should have at least let you put your window on the medium dim setting (so you could see the landscape, but if you took photos it would look dark-ish).

I am also someone who will fly across Canada on a bright summer's day with my window shade open!

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Totally dark?! I would be quite upset as well. They should have at least let you put your window on the medium dim setting (so you could see the landscape, but if you took photos it would look dark-ish).

I am also someone who will fly across Canada on a bright summer's day with my window shade open!

It was like flying in a Cargo aircraft for 10 hours. It was dim enough that I could tell it was "sunny" outside, but could not see any detail whatsoever.

I'd never flown over central Greenland (or the Northern Arctic) before... Disappointed does not begin to describe it.

I ranted on some forum (a.net?), and it seems to be hit and miss with the cabin crew. Also seemed to be more common on United..

Other than that... it sure is a beautiful, comfortable aircraft!!

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 47 plus the final Sens Jetz hockey charter of the season to PHL.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

It was like flying in a Cargo aircraft for 10 hours. It was dim enough that I could tell it was "sunny" outside, but could not see any detail whatsoever.

I'd never flown over central Greenland (or the Northern Arctic) before... Disappointed does not begin to describe it.

I ranted on some forum (a.net?), and it seems to be hit and miss with the cabin crew. Also seemed to be more common on United..

Other than that... it sure is a beautiful, comfortable aircraft!!

It seems to be a US airline thing and I have heard it happen to others. Once on a very delayed to 01:30 in the middle of the night departure on a 757 out of EWR (it was legacy CO not long before the merger, so present day UA), the Purser after pushback told everyone to put their shades down for departure. I was flabbergasted. Given I was on a re-route stuck in a 'take-what-I-could-get' aisle seat, I couldn't stop it from happening in my row. It was surreal and even more shockingly everyone complied. Like you said, it felt like being on a freighter. That type of shenanigan (at least for takeoff & landing) wouldn't fly (pun intended) with Transport Canada and I have never experienced it on a Canadian carrier or any other part of the world I've flown for that matter. It was ridiculous since if there were ever an emergency, it would be chaos with no frame of reference to the outside.

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Swoop is flying "direct" service to YXX from YOW in the sense that "direct" means same-plane service via YEG. So, same flight number and you don't need to disembark in YEG during the stopover. Similar to Porter's YHZ-YOW-YTZ (and vice versa) where passengers remain on the plane in YOW who are flying YHZ-YTZ. I have no experience with Swoop as they are new to our market. In the airline industry "non-stop" would mean as it sounds, but "direct" means same-plane service (usually). All non-stop flights are direct flights, but not all direct flights are non-stop. You usually only see this happen with regional or discount airlines, not the big boys like AC, WS, United, Delta, etc.

I have had a few friends fly Flair specifically on the YOW-YVR route without problems. If you look at this route's history on FlightAware, it's one of their better performing "on-time" routes. Would be a good option if you don't mind the red-eye back to YOW and a late evening arrival into YVR.

I think with both Swoop and Flair, you'll get similar experiences, with Swoop being more established (been around longer). Since neither airline operates the route daily, if for some reason the flight is cancelled, you'd likely be re-booked on their next available flight (which could be the next day, or the day after). They won't route you via a different airline or within network flight.

Honestly, if you are choosing only between Flair and Swoop, I think both offer similar options and trustworthiness.

WestJet and Air Canada also fly YVR (which I'm sure you know) at 2x daily and 3x daily respectively by late June.

Thanks , I think I'll go with Flair looks less of a headache.
And I do know about the flights from Westjet and Air Canada but these two are way over my budjet so not even worth considering.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 49

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 39

[MountainView]

Air Canada 343 and 345 are so random to me (as well as their return to YOW routes).... they depart within ~30 mins of each other when they are both operating.

I'm wondering if AC just doesn't have a larger aircraft available to operate the route on days when both 343 and 345 fly, or what the economics of this is. I think it would be more optimal to have a morning and evening flight, instead of two evening flights. But, then you don't have to RON an aircraft and crew. And to my knowledge YVR is a big 737-Max8 base.

This all changes soon with YVR going fulltime double daily (with a morning departure) and ultimately 3x daily at the end of June.

Just weird to me... Today they were even at adjacent gates.

AC345

AC343

[Coho]

Was browsing the Air Canada PDF timetable and noticed that AC is operating AC614 YOW-YHZ on a Max 8 on May 17th only. Wonder what the reason for the upgauge is, given that it's a Tuesday..

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 54 - including the return of 4N to YZF/YXY, WS to YVR & YHZ and AC to YTZ.

Today’s cancellation count: 3 - including oddly both US flights.

[Coho]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 54 - including the return of 4N to YZF/YXY, WS to YVR & YHZ and AC to YTZ.

Today’s cancellation count: 3 - including oddly both US flights.

There were a ton of cancellations yesterday out of ORD due to a storm, which explains why the ORD flight was cancelled. I imagine the plane for the IAD flight was also affected by that and either stuck somewhere in the mid-West or repositioned elsewhere.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Coho

Was browsing the Air Canada PDF timetable and noticed that AC is operating AC614 YOW-YHZ on a Max 8 on May 17th only. Wonder what the reason for the upgauge is, given that it's a Tuesday..

Two most likely reasons are either a large group (e.g., military) or aircraft rotation. Is it one-way only?

[Coho]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Two most likely reasons are either a large group (e.g., military) or aircraft rotation. Is it one-way only?

No it originates in YHZ with AC613. Wonder if maybe it's the beginning of YHZ-LHR and it's just a one-off tag on or something to get some extra utilization out of the aircraft.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Coho

No it originates in YHZ with AC613. Wonder if maybe it's the beginning of YHZ-LHR and it's just a one-off tag on or something to get some extra utilization out of the aircraft.

I think YHZ-LHR re-started yesterday, so it's probably a large group booking. Given it's YHZ, would not be surprised if that means the military.

Today's departure count of 63 is the most since the start of the pandemic and the first time in the 60s...and there's even 1 cancellation.

Also today marks the return of DCA on AC.

[BenYOW]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Something like this maybe?

The groundbreaking ceremony for the new Taxiway R occurred today prior to the Airport Authority's Annual General Meeting. The wording of Mark Laroche suggests that federal and private-sector tenants will be developing with the Taxiway R project, which is consistent with the discussions earlier in this thread.

The meeting followed a small groundbreaking ceremony on the airfield. The ceremony celebrated the first airside infrastructure expansion project in the Authority’s 20-year history.

“This project, called Taxiway Romeo, is a game-changer for YOW,” said Mark Laroche. “It represents the first major airside infrastructure expansion project since well before the Authority was established in 1997. We initiated Romeo to accommodate the growing demands on our G7 Capital airport, with space earmarked for federal government needs and private-sector opportunities.”

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 56

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by BenYOW

The groundbreaking ceremony for the new Taxiway R occurred today prior to the Airport Authority's Annual General Meeting. The wording of Mark Laroche suggests that federal and private-sector tenants will be developing with the Taxiway R project, which is consistent with the discussions earlier in this thread.

Clearly a new taxiway to service only new reception centre doesn’t meet the definition of “game changer”. The private sector component to this is the game changer and that has to be Porter.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Clearly a new taxiway to service only new reception centre doesn’t meet the definition of “game changer”. The private sector component to this is the game changer and that has to be Porter.

Indeed. The "game changer" of the reception centre relocation would be to allow for the terminal building to expand northwards...like when Porter's operating 120 flights a day out of YOW, including multiple daily transatlantics with 321XLRs in the 2030s.