SAN FRANCISCO | Projects: Under Construction, Approved, and Proposed

[BobbyMucho]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

...the cumulative additional pollutants of the majority of San Franciscans who DO own cars having to drive...

You're inadvertently promoting the idea that car ownership itself is the real issue—which I agree with.

A rapidly growing portion of the population seems to be increasingly interested in promoting bike/ped oriented planning. It's far more economical (in nearly every way) and with an emphasis on mass/shared transit, there's no reason to encourage, let alone benefit private car ownership

I'm not saying owning a car in this city is inherently bad, but it is surely not necessary, let alone a positive, future-oriented ideal.

[iamfishhead]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

The same can be said of any single small-scale economic change. But the cumulative additional pollutants of the majority of San Franciscans who DO own cars having to drive farther to get mechanics services, buy gas, park and do the other things that the anti-car crowd is pushing will be significant.

Housing is replacing, not incorporating, services including car-related services all over San Francisco. It would be fine if a multistory building with housing on upper floors replaces single-floor service businesses, but when the service is light industrial such as car-related ones, that's very uncommon. But Planning should be requiring it.

If I am not mistaken, some of the mixed use zoning now being added in places like SoMa and the design district does in fact allow PDR and light industrial as a possible use, though it is not required.

[timbad]

few other random things from yesterday...

was pleased to see some progress on the corner planters on Folsom





went past the new waterfront fire station



a crew (lower-right) looked like they were either removing the pilings on the north side of the existing firehouse building, or at least preparing that area for reconstruction



the new Folsom canyon



the affordable one at the foot of Telegraph Hill (side note: appears the Teatro ZinZanni project, which would go up in the foreground of this pic, has been delayed, but I don't have any new info on it)



along Broadway



and the 'back' along Front St. wait, that doesn't sound right



Chinatown Muni station (Washington and Stockton)



Moscone Muni station (Fourth and Folsom)





Fourth and Brannan surface Muni station



Fourth St, betw Folsom and Harrison



50 Jones/1028 Market



Serif

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by BobbyMucho

You're inadvertently promoting the idea that car ownership itself is the real issue—which I agree with.

I'm promoting the right to select the appropriate form of transportation for yourself and the diversity of services needed for all the possibilities including mechanical services for motorized vehicles (as well as bike shops, skate shops and all the rest). In San Francisco it seems like a moral issue and it shouldn't be. SF is full of older or disabled people who can never use a bike as a primary means of getting around and also of people who might be able to for many purposes but not if they are transporting something heavy or bulky.

But Planning needs to see that all needs are met. I can't think of a single new gas station or auto mechanic shop replacing another use anywhere in the parts of the city I travel but it seems like existing ones are constantly being replaced with other uses, usually housing. But as the numbers I posted above show, car ownership in the city isn't declining. It hasn't reached a critical point yet, but I fear it will.

I can see a reason to celebrate replacing a single story oil change place with a multistory dwelling but I'd be happier if the existing use could continue to exist on the ground floor and we could just get more upper floor housing.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by timbad

few other random things from yesterday...

Excellent collection of updates. Thanx.

I especially was glad to see the new Muni stations. Hope to see trains rolling through them, at least on practice runs, soon.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

The same can be said of any single small-scale economic change. But the cumulative additional pollutants of the majority of San Franciscans who DO own cars having to drive farther to get mechanics services, buy gas, park and do the other things that the anti-car crowd is pushing will be significant.

You're being a drama queen--there will not be any "significant" increase in pollution as a result of the slow death of places like the former Oil Changer at Valencia and Duboce.

Oil changes are a very rare event for the average driver, who averages 13,500 miles annually; manufacturers generally recommend an oil change every 5,000-7,500 miles, so we're talking an average of two oil changes per year per car.

Locals may drive perhaps another couple of miles to get their oil changed twice a year, and for that minority of San Francisco car owners who actually commute by car, there may not be any additional miles at all since they usually work out of town and can very easily get their motor oil changed on their lunch hour or after work.

None of that adds up to a "significant" increase in pollution.

[homebucket]

Serif is low key one of my favorite recent buildings.

[gillynova]

50 Jones/1028 Market and Serif looking really nice!

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by craigs

You're being a drama queen--there will not be any "significant" increase in pollution as a result of the slow death of places like the former Oil Changer at Valencia and Duboce.

Oil changes are a very rare event for the average driver, who averages 13,500 miles annually; manufacturers generally recommend an oil change every 5,000-7,500 miles, so we're talking an average of two oil changes per year per car.

Locals may drive perhaps another couple of miles to get their oil changed twice a year, and for that minority of San Francisco car owners who actually commute by car, there may not be any additional miles at all since they usually work out of town and can very easily get their motor oil changed on their lunch hour or after work.

None of that adds up to a "significant" increase in pollution.

I don't need a lecture on auto mechanics from you and take your d*mned language like "drama queen" back to skybox where it rots.

There is a pattern here:

The plans for a mixed-use, four-story development to rise on the Grant’s Auto Repair shop parcel on the southeast corner of Mission Street and Foote Avenue, on the border of the Outer Mission and Crocker Amazon, were drafted back in 2018 and approved last year.

http://socketsite.com/archives/2021/...velopment.html

Nearly foreclosed upon when on the market as a development site back in 2017, the 105-year-old Cow Hollow garage at 1776 Green Street, which has been tagged as a Class A Historic Resource for the neighborhood, ended up selling for $5.75 million in 2018.

http://socketsite.com/archives/2021/...o-reality.html

The muted plans to refurbish the shell of the Mission District garage at 3140-3150 16th Street and convert the historic structure into four “Design Professional” spaces, a designation which would exclude any restaurant, retail or residential uses . . . .

http://socketsite.com/archives/2021/...ket-again.html

All this is from just today's socket site page. Eventually, getting your car repaired or even just buying gas is going to require a drive across or out of town. This does not benefit the average San Franciscan (as a matter of city planning).

[homebucket]

I work on my cars myself. And if it’s too complex I take it to down to my buddy’s shop in Burlingame. There’s plenty of auto shops in the upper Mid-Peninsula that are just a short drive away. Real estate space in SF, especially downtown, is far too valuable to be wasted on Jiffy Lubes.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I don't need a lecture on auto mechanics from you and take your d*mned language like "drama queen" back to skybox where it rots.

You declared that redeveloping autocentric businesses in the heart of the city, like Oil Changers at Valencia and Duboce, is supposedly bad for the city because it must necessarily lead to a "significant increase in pollution," but I showed that claim is completely overwrought and baseless. Don't want to be called out for being a drama queen? Don't be one.

There is a pattern here:

Yes, and there has been a pattern for many years. About a decade ago I was part of a team that helped our developer clients respond to the Planning Department's concerns regarding the redevelopment of Upper Market gas stations. We won the day and they were successfully redeveloped.

Gas stations, Oil Changers, etc. are not the highest or most appropriate use for inner-city sites like Market Street or Valencia or Duboce. And if driving becomes less convenient, maybe it will make driving less common--which I think is a good thing. But either way, I say upzone and redevelop, redevelop, redevelop.

Originally Posted by homebucket

I work on my cars myself. And if it’s too complex I take it to down to my buddy’s shop in Burlingame. There’s plenty of auto shops in the upper Mid-Peninsula that are just a short drive away. Real estate space in SF, especially downtown, is far too valuable to be wasted on Jiffy Lubes.

Exactly. I have my car worked on in the suburbs--it's much more convenient, affordable, and safe. I used to live around the corner from the old Oil Changers on Valencia, and I would never want my car in their lot overnight.

[timbad]

Van Ness, starting at California-ish and generally moving south, from earlier this week:

[timbad]

the supportive housing next door to the courthouse on 7th and Mission



looking west from 6th and Bryant

Originally Posted by AndrewK

That would be 833 Bryant:
https://www.mercyhousing.org/2020/04/13600/

[gillynova]

Some pictures around the city

[timbad]

Originally Posted by gillynova

...

I walked past this one yesterday too and couldn't recall what it was. think it is this

[Okie1dokie2]

Nice view yesterday

[timbad]

just tentatively dipping a toe into the gas station conversation to offer that, even if the overall number of cars owned in SF is not currently declining, going forward it does seem like a decreasing portion of those will need gas or motor oil (i.e., they will be electric or something else non-internal-combustion-y). this makes me not overly concerned that the facilities that serve those needs are also gradually declining in number.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by timbad

just tentatively dipping a toe into the gas station conversation to offer that, even if the overall number of cars owned in SF is not currently declining, going forward it does seem like a decreasing portion of those will need gas or motor oil (i.e., they will be electric or something else non-internal-combustion-y). this makes me not overly concerned that the facilities that serve those needs are also gradually declining in number.

Thanx for the Van Ness Pics. It looks like they planted cabbage in the median:



As for cars, I suspect you will see a further decrease in transit use (it's been decreasing even before COVID due to crime, inefficiency and downright unpleasantness plus the availability of Lyft/Uber) which means, effectively, MORE not fewer cars. I for one will be thinking two or three times before getting on Muni for a long time, even after COVID is supposedly over and may just get a car although I'll try making due with Uber and car sharing as I have been. For now, I don't consider plug-in electric vehicles practical for anyone who plans to use it for intercity travel (long road trips). As a second car or an only car if you are pretty sure you'll use it only around town it's OK. I'm pretty used to renting for intercity trips so I might consider an electric if I get one but my condo presently has a very limited number of spaces with charging facilities and I suspect most San Franciscans living in multifamily housing have that issue. Anyway, electrics need mechanic shops periodically too even if they don't need oil changes.

[fimiak]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Thanx for the Van Ness Pics. It looks like they planted cabbage in the median:



As for cars, I suspect you will see a further decrease in transit use (it's been decreasing even before COVID due to crime, inefficiency and downright unpleasantness plus the availability of Lyft/Uber) which means, effectively, MORE not fewer cars. I for one will be thinking two or three times before getting on Muni for a long time, even after COVID is supposedly over and may just get a car although I'll try making due with Uber and car sharing as I have been. For now, I don't consider plug-in electric vehicles practical for anyone who plans to use it for intercity travel (long road trips). As a second car or an only car if you are pretty sure you'll use it only around town it's OK. I'm pretty used to renting for intercity trips so I might consider an electric if I get one but my condo presently has a very limited number of spaces with charging facilities and I suspect most San Franciscans living in multifamily housing have that issue. Anyway, electrics need mechanic shops periodically too even if they don't need oil changes.

Tesla Model 3 cars require very little maintenance, and can travel 350 miles+ between charges. There are also hundreds of chargers all over CA, people drive from SF to LA every day. Though if you don't have a convenient charger it will be frustrating when you do have to charge on occasion. There are Tesla superchargers in the Presidio, Daly City, Berkeley, Oakland, etc. All you technically need to charge it is a regular 110V plug, but a 220V is much better.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by fimiak

Tesla Model 3 cars require very little maintenance, and can travel 350 miles+ between charges. There are also hundreds of chargers all over CA, people drive from SF to LA every day. Though if you don't have a convenient charger it will be frustrating when you do have to charge on occasion. There are Tesla superchargers in the Presidio, Daly City, Berkeley, Oakland, etc. All you technically need to charge it is a regular 110V plug, but a 220V is much better.

I routinely drive from SF to Tucson--950 miles/14 hours--without stopping except for gas and bathroom use (I try to keep the stops under 20 minutes). I do not like sleeping in motels and when I need to get someplace I like to just drive until I get there. Not possible with today's plug-in EVs.

My condo has Tesla charging stations--around 10 of them in a building where maybe 1000 people live all told. It works now. It won't work when EVs really get either popular or we are coerced into them. But I doubt smaller multifamily buildings all over town have even what we have (we also have Zipcars). And to get what we have they had to drill through the building foundation and run special power lines from under the street. The road to an all-electric future is going to be interesting.

Anyway, I'm so happy that now when I want a salad all I'll have to do is go out to Van Ness and pick some greens from the median.