What are your favourite restaurants in your city?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I find that a lot of people (especially SSPers) often give short-shrift to ethnic dining options in the suburbs.

What with demographic shifts/patterns and sky-high rents in central cities, in many cities there is now a good chunk of good, authentic ethnic cuisine that is best sampled in the burbs. Often in ugly strip malls or industrial areas.

Thing is, in Toronto it's common knowledge that the best/most authentic ethnic food is out in the ethno-burbs, which is why it's so odd to hear someone from Mississauga complaining that there's nothing much beyond fast food there. Mississauga may not necessarily be in the upper echelon with places like Markham or Brampton, but it's still exponentially better than anywhere else in Canada for the range and quality of its food options (save for the obvious exception of Vancouver for Chinese).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Thing is, in Toronto it's common knowledge that the best/most authentic ethnic food is out in the ethno-burbs, which is why it's so odd to hear someone from Mississauga complaining that there's nothing much beyond fast food there. Mississauga may not necessarily be in the upper echelon with places like Markham or Brampton, but it's still exponentially better than anywhere else in Canada for the range and quality of its food options (save for the obvious exception of Vancouver for Chinese).

I get all of that, but I think perceptions on the part of many people have not evolved with the reality. Even in Toronto, with all of the 416 vs. 905 banter for example.

On a broader level, one thing I have noticed in all cities is that edgier, more authentic stuff is being pushed further out of city cores as rents and other constraints become too high a price to pay for certain niche businesses. In some cases they go to less tony parts of the city (often post-industrial), but in others they go straight out to the burbs. This is true of ethnic businesses but also some non-ethnic establishments as well.

For example, a place called Fat Tuesday's was a fixture in the heart of Ottawa's Byward Market for years. It recently moved out to a strip mall in suburban Kanata and was replaced with a huge Starbucks (with a liquor permit I believe).

This is not true just of Canadian cities BTW. We are seeing this world wide.

Hip downtown areas have often become so pricey that often only the big global conglomerates can afford to be there, and the locally unique is "priced out" and has to find a cheaper location elsewhere.

I wonder if in the future all of the really cool and famous streets in the world's great cities won't all be fairly similar in terms of retail and food offerings?

[SignalHillHiker]

I hope that doesn't happen here. Downtown has been chipped away enough already - there's already a couple Starbucks, a Tim Horton's, a Boston Pizza, two Subways, on and on. It's still mostly local or regional, but the presence of large chains is a little annoying.

Most of the non-generic NL/North America food options are in the core. There are only a couple that come to mind in the suburbs that aren't present in the core at all. Greek cuisine is one. Mama Soula's is out on Torbay Road and there's nothing Greek downtown. Sumac ("Middle Eastern", the best of that type in town) is out there too, but there are other options for that downtown (Afghan, Mohammed Ali's, etc.).

I think we're safe for a while yet because our suburbs aren't large or diverse, and there is still a significant chunk of downtown (Water Street West) that's only now up-and-coming and still very cheap. If everything local wasn't in the core we'd just be... awful. Some subdivision somewhere else.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I get all of that, but I think perceptions on the part of many people have not evolved with the reality. Even in Toronto, with all of the 416 vs. 905 banter for example.

On a broader level, one thing I have noticed in all cities is that edgier, more authentic stuff is being pushed further out of city cores as rents and other constraints become too high a price to pay for certain niche businesses. In some cases they go to less tony parts of the city (often post-industrial), but in others they go straight out to the burbs. This is true of ethnic businesses but also some non-ethnic establishments as well.

For example, a place called Fat Tuesday's was a fixture in the heart of Ottawa's Byward Market for years. It recently moved out to a strip mall in suburban Kanata and was replaced with a huge Starbucks (with a liquor permit I believe).

This is not true just of Canadian cities BTW. We are seeing this world wide.

Hip downtown areas have often become so pricey that often only the big global conglomerates can afford to be there, and the locally unique is "priced out" and has to find a cheaper location elsewhere.

I wonder if in the future all of the really cool and famous streets in the world's great cities won't all be fairly similar in terms of retail and food offerings?

One thing that has struck me since returning to Ottawa has been the shift of trendy/good eateries from the core towards neighbourhoods like Westboro and Hintonburg (and the Glebe, although that isn't really new). What's missing, unfortunately, is something similar on the east side of town (apart from Beechwood, which isn't very east. East of St Laurent, it's a bit of a foodie desert (Coconut Lagoon, on St Laurent, seems to be the obvious exception). Although there is a Nando's out in Orleans ....

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For example, a place called Fat Tuesday's was a fixture in the heart of Ottawa's Byward Market for years. It recently moved out to a strip mall in suburban Kanata and was replaced with a huge Starbucks (with a liquor permit I believe).

No kidding?! I spent last New Year's Eve at Fat Tuesday's in the market. The place was packed, and the dueling pianos were fun. Kanata seems an odd choice for them to decamp to.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

One thing that has struck me since returning to Ottawa has been the shift of trendy/good eateries from the core towards neighbourhoods like Westboro and Hintonburg (and the Glebe, although that isn't really new). What's missing, unfortunately, is something similar on the east side of town (apart from Beechwood, which isn't very east. East of St Laurent, it's a bit of a foodie desert (Coconut Lagoon, on St Laurent, seems to be the obvious exception). Although there is a Nando's out in Orleans ....

Westboro *was* cheaper when the trend began, and that was (and still may be) true of Hintonburg, Mechanicsville and Wellington West, which are all in the same general vicinity.

Westboro was never a crappy area in decline but it was more "boring" and far less hip than it is today. So I guess it was an opportunity to be seized. The other three areas I mentioned which are to the east of Westboro along the same stretch of road were at one point pretty down and out to varying degrees, though.

When this turnaround began to take root, I am 100% certain that all of them were a lot cheaper to set up a business in than the Byward Market.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Echoes

No kidding?! I spent last New Year's Eve at Fat Tuesday's in the market. The place was packed, and the dueling pianos were fun. Kanata seems an odd choice for them to decamp to.

Yes, it's now right across the road from the Walmart Tire and Lube Centre!

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

On a broader level, one thing I have noticed in all cities is that edgier, more authentic stuff is being pushed further out of city cores as rents and other constraints become too high a price to pay for certain niche businesses. In some cases they go to less tony parts of the city (often post-industrial), but in others they go straight out to the burbs. This is true of ethnic businesses but also some non-ethnic establishments as well.

I don't think "edgier" businesses are ever really going to decamp for the suburbs - as regardless of the cost of rent, their principle market tends to be in city centres. Instead, businesses like that are just going to have a harder time surviving.

But even when it comes to ethnic food, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the draw of the city. Even while many ethnic populations are more concentrated in the suburbs now, their old inner-city districts are still the commercial heart of their community - plus these areas tend to be more likely to be the first stop for many newly-arrived immigrants.

There are of course a lot of really good, authentic workaday kinds of places catering to the local residential communities within the suburbs, but a lot of the best places (the kind they'll travel down to on the weekend) are still in the city. The Chinese community in Toronto (and Vancouver) seems to be the exception rather than the norm, in that so much of the commercial activity (including the higher-end side of things) have moved along with them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I don't think "edgier" businesses are ever really going to decamp for the suburbs - as regardless of the cost of rent, their principle market tends to be in city centres. Instead, businesses like that are just going to have a harder time surviving.

.

I dunno, but even if that's the case, it's not really a positive development anyway, is it?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

But even when it comes to ethnic food, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the draw of the city. Even while many ethnic populations are more concentrated in the suburbs now, their old inner-city districts are still the commercial heart of their community - plus these areas tend to be more likely to be the first stop for many newly-arrived immigrants.

There are of course a lot of really good, authentic workaday kinds of places catering to the local residential communities within the suburbs, but a lot of the best places (the kind they'll travel down to on the weekend) are still in the city. The Chinese community in Toronto (and Vancouver) seems to be the exception rather than the norm, in that so much of the commercial activity (including the higher-end side of things) have moved along with them.

I don't think prime downtown areas will die, I just think they will become more generic.

And regarding ethnic groups, well the biggest contemporary ethnic group in Ottawa is the Lebanese community. There isn't one single *nicer* Lebanese restaurant in the Byward Market which is the main dining and nightlife district of the city. All there is in the Market is a half-dozen shawarma counters. Which are generally good - but not fine dining.

For the nicer Lebanese restaurants, one or two are in less bustling inner city areas, and the others are all in the suburbs.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

The Chinese community in Toronto (and Vancouver) seems to be the exception rather than the norm, in that so much of the commercial activity (including the higher-end side of things) have moved along with them.

And South Asian, too. I love the vibe in Little India on Gerrard, but the serious Indian food is in Brampton. Brars, in particular, is a vegetarian buffet that numerous Indians I've met rave about.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I don't think "edgier" businesses are ever really going to decamp for the suburbs - as regardless of the cost of rent, their principle market tends to be in city centres. Instead, businesses like that are just going to have a harder time surviving.

But even when it comes to ethnic food, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the draw of the city. Even while many ethnic populations are more concentrated in the suburbs now, their old inner-city districts are still the commercial heart of their community - plus these areas tend to be more likely to be the first stop for many newly-arrived immigrants.

There are of course a lot of really good, authentic workaday kinds of places catering to the local residential communities within the suburbs, but a lot of the best places (the kind they'll travel down to on the weekend) are still in the city. The Chinese community in Toronto (and Vancouver) seems to be the exception rather than the norm, in that so much of the commercial activity (including the higher-end side of things) have moved along with them.

Yes. To add to your point about authenticity, the ethnic places in the 'burbs may be quite "authentic", but they aren't very experimental. They're still catering to new immigrants who want a slice of the old world, so they're not going to start substituting new sauces and ingredients.

If you want to start a new restaurant where the food is open to the chef's interpretation rather than old mainstays, then downtown is still a better bet.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think prime downtown areas will die, I just think they will become more generic.

And regarding ethnic groups, well the biggest contemporary ethnic group in Ottawa is the Lebanese community. There isn't one single *nicer* Lebanese restaurant in the Byward Market which is the main dining and nightlife district of the city. All there is in the Market is a half-dozen shawarma counters. Which are generally good - but not fine dining.

For the nicer Lebanese restaurants, one or two are in less bustling inner city areas, and the others are all in the suburbs.

The most interesting Middle Eastern restaurant in Ottawa is, imho, Fairouz in Somerset Village. The food is decidedly modern in style, not traditional/ethnic.

For Moroccan, Kasbah Village in Centretown remains my favourite, although I haven't been for a while....

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The most interesting Middle Eastern restaurant in Ottawa is, imho, Fairouz in Somerset Village. The food is decidedly modern in style, not traditional/ethnic.

Fairouz was an Ottawa mainstay for ages, then it disappeared for several years.

It reopened a few months ago but I haven't been yet. Some people I know have raved about it though: "Fairouz is back!"

Did you know... that Fairouz is the name of a super legendary female singer from Lebanon?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

For Moroccan, Kasbah Village in Centretown remains my favourite, although I haven't been for a while....

I went there about a year ago for a friend's birthday. He is Québécois but has lived in North Africa. He swears by this place. It was great.

I used to really like La Gazelle on Gamelin in Hull near Les Galeries, but it closed several years ago. Great tajines!

[Acajack]

My Lebanese friends in Gatineau all swear by El Mazaj, which is way the hell out in far east end Ottawa (almost in Orleans) in an industrial no man's land off the Montreal Rd. exit of the Queensway. On Canotek or Polytek. The name gives away what the area looks like.

I've been many times and it's great in spite of the spartan surroundings. All you can eat delicious Lebanese mezze brought to your table as long as you want. For 30 bucks. Bottle of French wine for 25 bucks. Lebanese DJ and belly dancers for enterainment.

My wife and kids love the place.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My Lebanese friends in Gatineau all swear by El Mazaj, which is way the hell out in far east end Ottawa (almost in Orleans) in an industrial no man's land off the Montreal Rd. exit of the Queensway. On Canotek or Polytek. The name gives away what the area looks like.

I've been many times and it's great in spite of the spartan surroundings. All you can eat delicious Lebanese mezze brought to your table as long as you want. For 30 bucks. Bottle of French wine for 25 bucks. Lebanese DJ and belly dancers for enterainment.

My wife and kids love the place.

In fact I know that place from visiting a friend who works a block away. I was never tempted, from the outside appearance, but I'll have to give it a try.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Fairouz was an Ottawa mainstay for ages, then it disappeared for several years.

It reopened a few months ago but I haven't been yet. Some people I know have raved about it though: "Fairouz is back!"

Did you know... that Fairouz is the name of a super legendary female singer from Lebanon?

If one didn't know before going in, one would certainly know before leaving - she's featured in the décor!

[Acajack]

I find Lebanese pop music to be very, very close to mainstream western pop music. Only in a different langage and with some musical variations.

I'll happily listen to it and even dance to it if I am with a group in a resto-bar or a party, but it's not something I'd put on to listen to myself.

Algerian music is quite different and more exotic. I like it better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw1u7p2IRtQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp1m0xbkap4

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I mean, Elvis, a MAN, singing "You ain't nothing but a hounddog"!? And people actually though that was his, and white, creation? No, honey. No.

"It's Now or Never" by Elvis is the old Italian standard "O Sole Mio".

"My Way" by Frank Sinatra is a translation (by Paul Anka, maybe a rewrite) of "Comme d'habitude" by French singer Claude François.

"Seasons in the Sun" by Terry Jacks is "Le Moribond" by Belgian singer Jacques Brel.

"Beyond the Sea" by Bobby Darin is "La Mer" by French singer Charles Trenet.