Gas Prices

[WarrenC12]

Back to acting class lady, geez that was painful.

Maybe they can be specific about how cost of the the carbon tax and whataver else they are alluding to somehow offsets the following cuts and increased benefits:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4465850/t...es-calculator/

Maybe this is all a ruse and this woman is in the $200k+ bracket.

[mcminsen]

I saw $1.359/L at the Petrocan at Clark and East Broadway today. Sorry, no pic.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

I saw $1.359/L at the Petrocan at Clark and East Broadway today. Sorry, no pic.

same at 152nd and 88th.

This week there is a deal for PC card holders at Esso.

Get $2 off when you spend $20 in addition to the usual 3 cents/L off.

Realistically you could pay $1.199. Pretty good deal.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

same at 152nd and 88th.

This week there is a deal for PC card holders at Esso.

Get $2 off when you spend $20 in addition to the usual 3 cents/L off.

Realistically you could pay $1.199. Pretty good deal.

1.31 at several stations on the West Side last night. It's amazing how fast that onerous requirement of a special low carbon BC fuel blend seemed to fade in significance.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

1.31 at several stations on the West Side last night. It's amazing how fast that onerous requirement of a special low carbon BC fuel blend seemed to fade in significance.

94-95 cents in Edmonton at the moment...

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

1.31 at several stations on the West Side last night. It's amazing how fast that onerous requirement of a special low carbon BC fuel blend seemed to fade in significance.

The problem with refined gasoline is that is subject to all sorts of hands in the pot that can arbitrarily crank up their profit without explanation. Market forces and speculation also affect the prices at various levels along the chain. Gasoline is a staple product and the price swings affect people in so many ways. The prices along the chain should be regulated and controlled just like eggs and milk are. That won't happen but it would sure make life more predictable in what you will be paying for everything affect by gasoline. Just my 2 cents...

[mcminsen]

The Shell station at Marine Drive and Pemberton in North Vancouver had regular gas at $1.469/L today. A few blocks to the east the Chevron near Marine Drive and Bewicke had regular at $1.399 (no pic).



June 9 '19, my pic

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

The problem with refined gasoline is that is subject to all sorts of hands in the pot that can arbitrarily crank up their profit without explanation. Market forces and speculation also affect the prices at various levels along the chain. Gasoline is a staple product and the price swings affect people in so many ways. The prices along the chain should be regulated and controlled just like eggs and milk are. That won't happen but it would sure make life more predictable in what you will be paying for everything affect by gasoline. Just my 2 cents...

Regulation only works when there's sufficient supply to meet demand, and it only realistically serves to provide a floor to which a price can drop no further. Notice that the jurisdictions in which there is regulated pricing for gas, such as Atlantic Canada and Quebec, there is more than sufficient supply of refined products to meet demand, hence the lack of major swings in pricing in those regions.

Remember, the bulk of British Columbia's refined fuel supply is brought in from other jurisdictions. With ongoing supply constraints from Alberta, our primary supplier, plus a general lack of supply along the entire North American West Coast, we are price takers, not setters. If there was more supply than demand, it creates pressure on the market to drive down prices; we can take our supply from a lower cost supplier at will versus another supplier.

In jurisdictions in which there is a price ceiling, such as New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador, prices have generally never reached the ceiling that is imposed, meaning that the regulation itself is ineffectual. It’s the market that is influencing prices in New Brunswick, not regulation.

And if you track prices with taxes removed and you correct for the differences in their underlying wholesale prices, prices between the Atlantic Provinces (where there is regulation) and the rest of Canada are not much different.

And on volatility: The problem with that is, while consumers don’t like volatility in pricing, volatile markets are usually indicative of intense price competition; generally meaning consumers are paying less compared to if the price was controlled. There's only a certain limit in which one station can increase prices before they drive away consumers to other stations that decide to undercut a higher priced station's margins.

Originally Posted by whatnext

1.31 at several stations on the West Side last night. It's amazing how fast that onerous requirement of a special low carbon BC fuel blend seemed to fade in significance.

What you are seeing is the end result of more supply becoming available after a number of Californian and Washington refineries came back online after shutdowns (A major refinery down in California was shut down for a few weeks after a fire and explosion, causing a pretty bad price spike along the West Coast).

[1ajs]

wow you guys are paying more then in remote northern regions of manitoba

[retro_orange]

I filled up at $1.31 at Save On 12th and Clark. I knew I voted for Horgan for a reason.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Remember, the bulk of British Columbia's refined fuel supply is brought in from other jurisdictions. With ongoing supply constraints from Alberta, our primary supplier, plus a general lack of supply along the entire North American West Coast, we are price takers, not setters. If there was more supply than demand, it creates pressure on the market to drive down prices; we can take our supply from a lower cost supplier at will versus another supplier.

And on volatility: The problem with that is, while consumers don’t like volatility in pricing, volatile markets are usually indicative of intense price competition; generally meaning consumers are paying less compared to if the price was controlled. There's only a certain limit in which one station can increase prices before they drive away consumers to other stations that decide to undercut a higher priced station's margins.

What you are seeing is the end result of more supply becoming available after a number of Californian and Washington refineries came back online after shutdowns (A major refinery down in California was shut down for a few weeks after a fire and explosion, causing a pretty bad price spike along the West Coast).

So which is it? We don't have enough supply for the region OR we have too much competition leading to price volatility? Competition always brings prices down in a properly operating market.

Now you're also saying prices are down due to supply from CA and WA? We were just told it was due to global oil prices and the threat of a trade war between the US and China.

This is the ultimate problem. Every time prices change up or down, fingers are pointed 360 degrees trying to explain what is happening.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So which is it? We don't have enough supply for the region OR we have too much competition leading to price volatility? Competition always brings prices down in a properly operating market.

Now you're also saying prices are down due to supply from CA and WA? We were just told it was due to global oil prices and the threat of a trade war between the US and China.

This is the ultimate problem. Every time prices change up or down, fingers are pointed 360 degrees trying to explain what is happening.

There's insufficient supply along the entire West Coast of North America, so if something happens to upset the balance, such as a refinery shutdown, it causes prices to spike rapidly.

Back in March, the Philips 66 refinery near Los Angeles, California shut down due to a fire at the refinery. That refinery had a capacity of about 139,000 barrels a day, which makes it a fairly large refinery along the entire Western US.

Adding to the chaos was that there was also another fire and explosion at the Exxon Baytown, Texas refinery at about the same time which can process 560,500 b/d.

Also, in April, a number of Californian refineries shut down due to planned maintenance or mechanical breakdowns; those included:

• Chevron El Segundo refinery (290,500 b/d); maintenance
• Marathon Los Angeles refinery (383,000 b/d); maintenance
• Valero Wilmington refinery (87,000 b/d); breakdown
• Chevron Richmond refinery (260,000 b/d); breakdowns causing heavy flaring
• Valero Benicia refinery (149,000 b/d); breakdown leading to heavy maintenance

Adding to the issues was that refineries were also switching from the winter-blend to the summer blend; causing disruptions in supply to allow for the switch over to occur.

These refineries are now back up and running, meaning supplies of refined fuel have stabilized, causing prices to drop. Coupled with a depressed price for crude oil, this has pushed gas prices back down from their highs earlier this year.

Normally, you don't see this many refineries go down at about the same time; maintenance work is usually carefully planned to ensure that the shutdown does not occur when other nearby refineries are shut down to ensure a steady flow of product.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Normally, you don't see this many refineries go down at about the same time; maintenance work is usually carefully planned to ensure that the shutdown does not occur when other nearby refineries are shut down to ensure a steady flow of product.

Why wasn't this on the news then? All I read was wah-wah carbon tax, Alberta shutting taps, etc. etc. All BS.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why wasn't this on the news then? All I read was wah-wah carbon tax, Alberta shutting taps, etc. etc. All BS.

Doesn't make for a good story. Same as wah-wah foreign buyers, speculators, money laundering, etc. etc. A much better story then the new fire code regulations now requiring fire breaks between balcony's and the exterior driving up construction costs or the new regulations requiring sprinkler systems in detached housing (yes even a house has a dry sprinkler system and a compressor now) or the city increasing development fees or the UDP requiring green spaces and trees/plants on places expensive to maintain (who the hell puts planters outside balconies on every unit??).

You do see mention of refinery shutoffs in a few smaller articles and you do see gas prices usually go up in American west coast cities along with our increases. Our increases are increased because we have some % based taxes.

People talk about the new pipeline possibly increasing prices as there would be a small additional cost on gas, but given the massively increased ability to supply its likely prices would decrease overall.

[Airboy]

I believe the Scotsford refinery is only partially operating. They had a large fire a few months back.

I read in one of the American publications that the heavy oil is required for some transportation fuels. They blend it with the lighter oil. But the heavy oil is not getting to the refineries.


I can see 2 of the larger refineries in the distance from my office. when you see flaring, it usually means something is not right. There was one day the Suncor Flare was so bad they were getting calls. Apparently a unit had a failure.

As for pricing. the retailers can adjust their prices, they don't always follow the current price, as we see in Edmonton. with prices still in the 94-1.16 range.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by misher

Doesn't make for a good story.

You heard it here first, everyone. The truth doesn't make for a good story.

No wonder journalism is a farce these days.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

prices along the chain should be regulated and controlled just like eggs and milk are.

To make them more expensive for the benefit of domestic producers?

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why wasn't this on the news then? All I read was wah-wah carbon tax, Alberta shutting taps, etc. etc. All BS.

Because you aren't reading the right news publications. These shutdowns were noted by a number of publications that specialize in the oil and gas industry, such as OPIS (Oil Price Information Service).

Some more mass media outlets did note the individual fires and explosions, but didn't dedicate any significant coverage to it unless it was a local or regional news outlet talking about how there's a massive fire at a refinery and people should keep their windows shut until the fire was out, and the potential for supply disruption to local gas bars.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Because you aren't reading the right news publications. These shutdowns were noted by a number of publications that specialize in the oil and gas industry, such as OPIS (Oil Price Information Service).

Some more mass media outlets did note the individual fires and explosions, but didn't dedicate any significant coverage to it unless it was a local or regional news outlet talking about how there's a massive fire at a refinery and people should keep their windows shut until the fire was out, and the potential for supply disruption to local gas bars.

Sure I expect experts like Dan to tell me what's going on, instead he trots out the same tired talking points, and people rant about carbon taxes.

[SFUVancouver]

Out of curiosity, are Alberta's "thanks a lot, Horgan" gas price billboards still up?