Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[Spocket]

But why would they bury it? It's not a matter of us vs. them. P&M is an intersection that virtually everybody traveling through this city will have to navigate sooner or later. People in Transcona care about widening Kenaston relative to how often they use it. And nobody has yet explained to me how opening P&M is going to improve anything.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Spocket

But why would they bury it? It's not a matter of us vs. them. P&M is an intersection that virtually everybody traveling through this city will have to navigate sooner or later. People in Transcona care about widening Kenaston relative to how often they use it. And nobody has yet explained to me how opening P&M is going to improve anything.

Wait, haven't you heard, once open vibrant retail will return to downtown, The Bay will reopen along with a new Eaton's as well as the former fur and hat shops!

Just because downtown inhabitants look like Dawn of the Dead shouldn't scare anyone away right!?

[bomberjet]

Harvard, who owns 201 Portage, is holding off further developments until the intersection is opened. So the empty lot to the north will be there forever. They just finished upgrades to the lot IIRC.

Specific to transportation. Saying that everyone from NE needs to travel through the intersection to get to the SW is precisely the problem. And why pie in the skying a proper highway network is important to remove that traffic from downtown! When I have no choice going crosstown but to drive through the exact centre of the City. But it costs a lot of money, so was never completed.

It's everything together, roads, transit, pedestrians. Specific to pedestrians. People cross the street 1 block in either direction from the P&M intersection. And it's not mayhem. Then the drivers say "well just walk that extra block then!" No, how about you sit in the car for a few more seconds.

The whole thing is preposterous and the mayor failed miserably by putting it to a vote. The public didn't even have the proper information to vote on it. The City says the barricades will need to come down to repair the underground. So they're coming down anyways and will cost more to replace. Which was a team close argument, about costs.

But the voters from the burbs got their way, just like on reduced speed zones for residential streets. What a shit show. JBro at it again with his phony poll.

[Hecate]

Have you ever been in the concourse during a workday? Imagine those hundreds of people above the ground instead of underneath it. Would do a lot to minimize that one homeless person you see while you’re driving through downtown. Maybe then ladies like rrskylar and spocket, might feel a little safer clutching their pearls while they try to hold their sundresses down at the windiest corner in Canada.

[YWG-RO]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Wait, haven't you heard, once open vibrant retail will return to downtown, The Bay will reopen along with a new Eaton's as well as the former fur and hat shops!

Just because downtown inhabitants look like Dawn of the Dead shouldn't scare anyone away right!?

I really wish there was a like button. Well stated.

[pegcityboy]

It’s not a matter of if you open it everything will be fixed I don’t think anyone is saying that , it’s partly about the “ closed for business “ mentally of the archaic agreement from the late 70s , as mentioned Harvard won’t do anything on their lot till the intersection is open and that’s just one development that we kinda know of . Maybe the Hyatt proposal gets revisited with the intersection open , if they HAVE to come down cause they underground concourse needs costly repairs I don’t see why it just can’t stay open , that makes no sense to me at all , no good reason to keep it closed in actuality. The Bay , Eatons and Portage Place all have closed or have not live up to expectations with IT CLOSED , so we actually don’t know what our major intersection open in 2021 going forward would actually be like , the naysayers can go sky is falling as usual but it has been closed and downtown in their eyes has failed .

[Bdog]

So let me get this straight. Harvard bought 201 Portage and a vacant parcel next door fully knowing that Portage and Main was closed. The development of this vacant parcel worth millions is hinging on opening the intersection that was never guaranteed to be reopened. And the most we've heard from them about this is a soundbyte or two in the news and a open PM video?

You'd think if the intersection was truly holding back a multi-million dollar development, they would have been a bit more vocal behind the scenes with our elected officials and thrown their full weight behind the campaign to open it.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

I'll weigh in. Open it.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

I'll weigh in. Open it.

Open it. I just don't understand why everyone is being so chicken little about this. Yes, it will take you a minute longer to get through at busy hours. No, it will not be the end of the world. Just make it a 60 second scramble crossing once per cycle and it's fine. You don't have to make it that complicated.

[1ajs]

opening it i noot about the underground traffic its about day to day access to the area for resients and people exploring out city winter wewill go below summer well its summer who wants to be in a stuffy building

[zen-kz]

I believe opening P&M does not mean the concourse will be closed. It is just an alternative route for those who choose to go street level and also for people with special needs, strollers or luggage because it is difficult for them to go underground. Such changes make city fair for everyone.

Questions like this should never go to vote, but the decision should be made by professional city planners. It is like to vote on giving a Tylenol or cutting a leg instead of going to a doctor.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Bdog

So let me get this straight. Harvard bought 201 Portage and a vacant parcel next door fully knowing that Portage and Main was closed. The development of this vacant parcel worth millions is hinging on opening the intersection that was never guaranteed to be reopened. And the most we've heard from them about this is a soundbyte or two in the news and a open PM video?

You'd think if the intersection was truly holding back a multi-million dollar development, they would have been a bit more vocal behind the scenes with our elected officials and thrown their full weight behind the campaign to open it.

They did. Nobody listened.

Open it.

[The Jabroni]

Further going into this (again), the votes should have never been gone public.

Someone should be brave enough to go against the grain and just do it. Don't let anyone else stop them. What's the worst that can happen?

The empty and meaningless threats to people wanting this open is just that. Empty and meaningless.

Some chaotic good should be done with this city once and for all.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by Spocket

And nobody has yet explained to me how opening P&M is going to improve anything.

For me the main issue is safety. Right now pedestrians avoid P&M since you can't cross the street there, which means that P&M is pretty much deserted for one block in each direction. And in a city, a deserted area is a dangerous area. I hate walking around the corner by 201 Portage. There's never anyone around (outside of 9-5), and thanks to the barricades, there's no way to escape if someone was to jump you. This is all thanks to the closure of the intersection to pedestrians, which takes what should be a normal intersection and turns it into a creepy hemmed-in dead zone -- right where the heart of our city supposedly is.

That's just one reason among many.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Further going into this (again), the votes should have never been gone public.

Someone should be brave enough to go against the grain and just do it. Don't let anyone else stop them. What's the worst that can happen?

The empty and meaningless threats to people wanting this open is just that. Empty and meaningless.

Some chaotic good should be done with this city once and for all.

Just another example of how useless our Mayor and city council have been during his tenure. I can't think of one significant thing he has done during his two terms. Our streets and sidewalks are in disrepair, he hasn't found a way to balance the budget, caved into unrealistic demands for city employee salaries- I mean, they haven't even started the spring clean-up?? Every time the wind whips up, I feel like I'm in a dust bowl.

His term can't end fast enough. I really wish someone with some vision would step up to lead this city into it's next phase of growth. I wasn't always a huge Glen Murray fan, but he had a vision for this city and he got stuff done despite public opposition.

[esquire]

^ To be fair, we had an early spring this year which probably caught the city off guard a bit. I wouldn't hold that against Bowman.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Bdog

So let me get this straight. Harvard bought 201 Portage and a vacant parcel next door fully knowing that Portage and Main was closed. The development of this vacant parcel worth millions is hinging on opening the intersection that was never guaranteed to be reopened. And the most we've heard from them about this is a soundbyte or two in the news and a open PM video?

You'd think if the intersection was truly holding back a multi-million dollar development, they would have been a bit more vocal behind the scenes with our elected officials and thrown their full weight behind the campaign to open it.

They also bought whatever that heritage building is called at the north end of their property and are up in arms about not being able to demo it.

But ya. All of the property owners support opening of the intersection. But Winnipeg drivers do not. So there you go. That's why it's so ridiculous.

Try traversing the concourse in a wheelchair. if it's even possible since the lifts are usually out of service at one location or another.

Maybe some of the team closed folks on here can set me straight on this.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

They also bought whatever that heritage building is called at the north end of their property and are up in arms about not being able to demo it.

But ya. All of the property owners support opening of the intersection. But Winnipeg drivers do not. So there you go. That's why it's so ridiculous.

Yeah that one is fully on them. I dont see what would be so terrible about incorporating it into whatever design they come up with for the land anyways. But that's a known condition. Their fault for not doing due diligence

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't live near either route so I have no dog in this fight, but I honestly wonder why the City doesn't prioritize improvements to Lagimodiere instead of building CPT.

Imagine south Winnipeg if Bishop didn't exist. That is effectively the situation in north Winnipeg and why CPT is necessary. Sending near Bishop levels of traffic down residential streets (Springfield especially) was a real mess. There was also no east-west river crossing between the Perimeter and Redwood so it was a bit of a public safety issue (fire trucks, ambulances, police, etc). Similar to why William Clement was needed in the west.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Jammon

Just another example of how useless our Mayor and city council have been during his tenure. I can't think of one significant thing he has done during his two terms. Our streets and sidewalks are in disrepair, he hasn't found a way to balance the budget, caved into unrealistic demands for city employee salaries- I mean, they haven't even started the spring clean-up?? Every time the wind whips up, I feel like I'm in a dust bowl.

His term can't end fast enough. I really wish someone with some vision would step up to lead this city into it's next phase of growth. I wasn't always a huge Glen Murray fan, but he had a vision for this city and he got stuff done despite public opposition.

Literally almost everything you've said is untrue. I don't know how someone could be so ignorant yet vocal.

First, this year the City is spending a record $152 million on road renewal alone. Only a few departmental budgets exceed that amount. Combined with gas tax and other funding sources, roads receive massive investment year over year, and have been one of the very few budget items to consistently grow (beside fire and police of course). Because of this, out of most major cities in Canada, Winnipeg had the second highest proportion of its roads that are considered by engineers to be in good or very good condition (source). I don't know what more Winnipeggers could want on the "fix the roads!" front because that's literally the only thing of note this mayor has done, is to pour cash into filling potholes for the last 6 years. The narrative that all our roads are in crap condition was true 10 years ago, but is no longer correct and just shows how stuck in time most Winnipeggers are with their thinking.

Second, the City has balanced the budget. Pages 249 and 250 show that there is no operating budget deficit for the foreseeable future. And while it is true that the city is running a surplus in the first two years to make up for the equivalent deficit in the last two years of the multi-year budget, the truth is that the budget is "balanced" within the Mayor's term.

Third, they usually wait to sweep the streets until night time temperatures are consistently above zero because the street cleaning efforts require a lot of water. If they were to spray down the roads in the evening or overnight to clean them, and then it froze, the city would be a messy skating rink the next day and we'd have a whole new slew of complaints. I guess no matter what you choose, someone will always be unhappy, hey? It's not the mayor, council, or City's fault that we've had an abnormally warm and dry spring this year.

I'll concede that this council and mayor have had little vision beyond repairing potholes. However, that's mostly a function of the frugality of the local tax base, who would prefer to keep property taxes low in exchange for mediocre services. Don't blame the mayor for that one, blame the tax base.

Before you throw around wild claims in the future, do some research and provide some sources so you can come off as someone credible, not just an old man yelling at the clouds.