Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[craner]

^Lets hear a few of your ideas itom.

[itom 987]

Alrighty...

The colosseum could be merged with the convention centre, converted into a condo with an enclosed atrium, rental apartments, homeless shelter. Converted to a warehouse, or a greenhouse like the Muttart Conservatory or agricultural featuring locally grown exotic food. Indoor playground, religious building, rec centre with an indoor velodrome. Disco / rec room, casino. Office building, hotel, garrison / command / training centre, paintball arena, museum of industry featuring heavy equipment in all shapes and sizes. Walmart, Home Depot, Cabelas, Canadian Tire, Save on Foods, shopping centre. Anything related to education. Skyscraper (of course a skyscraper suggestion was going to be added, it would be sacrilege if I didn't!), Cirque du Soleil venue, Amazon headquarters, Skateboard park, go karts, baseball batting cage & golf driving range. Virtual reality simulator. Research lab, fire/police station, jail , hospital, bank, vault, morgue. Factory, power generating station, transit garage, park & ride parkade. Wildlife sanctuary, aquarium.

That building could be anything above, and more; yet our mayor says it should be demolished.

Now the 'experts' will chime in and say things like: "it costs too much, there is mold, asbestos, bird droppings, building codes don't allow, it's not viable, lawyers won't allow, too much red tape, it is ugly, it's awkward, it's risky" etc.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by itom 987

Alrighty...

The colosseum could be merged with the convention centre, converted into a condo with an enclosed atrium, rental apartments, homeless shelter. Converted to a warehouse, or a greenhouse like the Muttart Conservatory or agricultural featuring locally grown exotic food. Indoor playground, religious building, rec centre with an indoor velodrome. Disco / rec room, casino. Office building, hotel, garrison / command / training centre, paintball arena, museum of industry featuring heavy equipment in all shapes and sizes. Walmart, Home Depot, Cabelas, Canadian Tire, Save on Foods, shopping centre. Anything related to education. Skyscraper (of course a skyscraper suggestion was going to be added, it would be sacrilege if I didn't!), Cirque du Soleil venue, Amazon headquarters, Skateboard park, go karts, baseball batting cage & golf driving range. Virtual reality simulator. Research lab, fire/police station, jail , hospital, bank, vault, morgue. Factory, power generating station, transit garage, park & ride parkade. Wildlife sanctuary, aquarium.

That building could be anything above, and more; yet our mayor says it should be demolished.

Now the 'experts' will chime in and say things like: "it costs too much, there is mold, asbestos, bird droppings, building codes don't allow, it's not viable, lawyers won't allow, too much red tape, it is ugly, it's awkward, it's risky" etc.

You're a day late and a dollar short, Itom. Actually you're eight years late and $240,000,000 short, to be more specific

Most of those uses you list are totally impractical, uneconomic.

The consequences of leaving it for an indeterminate amount of time are far greater than the potential benefits. Edmontonians don't care about history or heritage, so the best thing for this building is demolition. Bring on the wrecking balls

[esquire]

^ I thought it would be a good civic amenity to have a second major arena in a city of Edmonton's size... Winnipeg couldn't pull it off because Winnipeg Arena was simply too old and obsolete by the time it was replaced, but the Coliseum isn't in bad shape.

Clearly that isn't going to happen... oh well.

[WhipperSnapper]

...kitchen sink

some of things make absolutely zero sense even with a big budget. Listing everything you can think of doesn't do any favours. I'm sure the Ice District partnership wants it destroyed. There's also going be conditions in place to encourage its destruction.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I thought it would be a good civic amenity to have a second major arena in a city of Edmonton's size... Winnipeg couldn't pull it off because Winnipeg Arena was simply too old and obsolete by the time it was replaced, but the Coliseum isn't in bad shape.

Clearly that isn't going to happen... oh well.

Katz will have done everything he can to prevent that from happening.

[esquire]

^ That's what happened in the case of Winnipeg... IIRC True North negotiated a condition that called for the closure and demolition of the indirectly city-owned Winnipeg Arena to ensure TNSE had a monopoly on the arena business.

I'm not sure it's quite so simple in Edmonton... isn't the Coliseum owned by a separate entity (Northlands)?

[240glt]

^ Part of the major problem is that part of the sweetheart deal that the Katz Group got from the city to build the new rink was a non-compete clause which basically made it impossible for the old arena to compete.

Back in 2008 when it was proposed to move the hockey rink, questions were asked to the city about what was going to happen to the old coliseum. There were numerous requests by literally dozens of stakeholders to start looking at what the area looked like post-hockey. These questions kept being asked, right up until last year when Northlands announced it was in serious trouble and would not be able to sustain operations.

Now finally we're at a point where the city can't ignore it anymore, and there is a lack of confidence that without some sort of major 3rd party investment or partnership the facility will not be viable. A lot of people are tired of waiting, and there's more potential for the land if it's vacant, than if it's got the old rink on it. So there you have it.

I'm glad the city is finally taking this seriously and I fully expect by this time next year that building will not exist.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not sure it's quite so simple in Edmonton... isn't the Coliseum owned by a separate entity (Northlands)?

It is but it's on land leased by the city.

As noted, Northlands had a viable concert and entertainment business (Hockey never did generate much revenue, and the city was forced to subsidize the hockey team to the tune of ~$2 million a year) but when the new rink was built, the Katz group demanded the non-compete to ensure they got all of Northlands business. So now they literally have no money and aren't able to maintain their facilities, so the city is taking them all over and absorbing their debt.

Whipper is correct, Katz wanted Northlands dead and he got what he wanted, with the city's help. So now the city needs to step in and figure out what to do with the facility and lands.

[osmo]

It would be advantageous for Edmonton to have two arenas. The city will continue to grow and having a (downsized) arena such as Northlands would be valuable for various events and to remain a community asset.

The contracts these team owners indoor is silly. That free alert should decide where a event orders to setup shop. Even in NYC with a million arenas they all get business as they all compete on fees. No need need for hostile environment like that in Edmonton but having some tiny circus or HS hockey tournament be forced into Rogers Arena is silly when Northlands would do just fine.

[esquire]

So Katz basically got the city of Edmonton to build him a rink that he could use to put a community organization responsible for fairs, horse racing and other events pretty much out of business. Sweet deal!

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by esquire

So Katz basically got the city of Edmonton to build him a rink that he could use to put a community organization responsible for fairs, horse racing and other events pretty much out of business. Sweet deal!

A very simplistic assessment. Northlands is far from a "community organization". They are in name only. There have been constant issues as far as oversight is concerned and mismanagement of large projects (Expo Centre). As far a horse racing is concerned, it was a favourite of Klein, and the industry received heavy provincial subsidies. That gravy train has come to a screeching halt, and it seems that the industry can't support itself, but there will be a new, smaller track built at the airport.
http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...arena-business

The Coliseum has been hosting concerts and other events (most recently the CFR last week) since Rogers opened, and as far as I'm aware there is no non-compete clause. Simply there is no reason to have two NHL arenas in the city.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by esquire

So Katz basically got the city of Edmonton to build him a rink that he could use to put a community organization responsible for fairs, horse racing and other events pretty much out of business. Sweet deal!

Correct.

Not to mention the many community benefits that Northlands provided such as grants and bursaries for arts and community groups, Organizations such as the United Way and kids sports groups, assistance to low income families to attend events, assistance with communications and even co-sharing their facilities with non-profits. Many groups have benefited greatly from Northlands Community Benefits programs.

I'm no fan of how the Northlands facilities impacted the surrounding area but the city lost big with the destruction of the century old institution. The non-compete clause was designed to cut the organization off at the knees and it succeeded. But like I said, Edmontonians don't care about heritage or history.

[Black Star]

Northlands was sold to Calgary yesterday.


Courtesy of Moodib C2E


giphy by BLACK STAR III, on Flickr

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Northlands was sold to Calgary yesterday.


Courtesy of Moodib C2E


giphy by BLACK STAR III, on Flickr

Thought it was a trade? Isn't the Saddledome heading north?

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by osmo

It would be advantageous for Edmonton to have two arenas. The city will continue to grow and having a (downsized) arena such as Northlands would be valuable for various events and to remain a community asset.

The contracts these team owners indoor is silly. That free alert should decide where a event orders to setup shop. Even in NYC with a million arenas they all get business as they all compete on fees. No need need for hostile environment like that in Edmonton but having some tiny circus or HS hockey tournament be forced into Rogers Arena is silly when Northlands would do just fine.

Theirs really only a handful of cities in north america that successfully run 2 major arenas (secondary at 10,000+) operated by 2 separate entities.. If an appetite exists in Edmonton for another smaller venue the kats group should look at building something specific for the oil kings although I don't see any of this happening for obvious reasons.

Look at New York as a prime example theirs really only 4 major arenas (3 pre 2012) over 10,000 seats with a population of over 8 million and im including prudential center in jersey and Nassau coliseum which some would argue Aren't New York.

Take out New York and LA as major cities and Vancouver stands alone as the Only NHL city that has kept an old arena as an entertainment venue after the new one was built. It just isn't economically feasible. All others have been torn down or repurposed, Or the team has left the area (islanders,coyotes ect)

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Correct.

Not to mention the many community benefits that Northlands provided such as grants and bursaries for arts and community groups, Organizations such as the United Way and kids sports groups, assistance to low income families to attend events, assistance with communications and even co-sharing their facilities with non-profits. Many groups have benefited greatly from Northlands Community Benefits programs.

I'm no fan of how the Northlands facilities impacted the surrounding area but the city lost big with the destruction of the century old institution. The non-compete clause was designed to cut the organization off at the knees and it succeeded. But like I said, Edmontonians don't care about heritage or history.

Edmontonians don't care about heritage or history...don't you work in a building developed by an Edmontonian who worked very hard to preserve two historical facades that could have just been pulled down and thrown away?
You probably forgot that while you were busy counting the murders in the City.

When are you leaving again?

[Boris2k7]

A group of consultants were commissioned by CoC to carry out a study (obtained through FOIP) imagining what to do with the Saddledome if they Flames vacated the building...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...port-1.4406716

Naturally, the foreward in the report was written by the President and CEO of Edmonton Northlands.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Theirs really only a handful of cities in north america that successfully run 2 major arenas (secondary at 10,000+) operated by 2 separate entities.. If an appetite exists in Edmonton for another smaller venue the kats group should look at building something specific for the oil kings although I don't see any of this happening for obvious reasons.

Look at New York as a prime example theirs really only 4 major arenas (3 pre 2012) over 10,000 seats with a population of over 8 million and im including prudential center in jersey and Nassau coliseum which some would argue Aren't New York.

Take out New York and LA as major cities and Vancouver stands alone as the Only NHL city that has kept an old arena as an entertainment venue after the new one was built. It just isn't economically feasible. All others have been torn down or repurposed, Or the team has left the area (islanders,coyotes ect)

Downsize Northland to sub-10K seats. This was my originally statement, I should of been more clear. My intention was to state that there is value in keeping the structure and the uses inside, is should of expanded to say that with modifications of a downsize to a more intimate sized venue.

Again, I don't mean keep Northland as a full sized arena, what I am saying there is value in having a mid-tier arenas for smaller events. Your NYC example is perfect because the city has no real good options for midsized arenas. It is either major arenas with 18k seats or small college arenas that only hold 2000-5000 seats.

Toronto is doing great with Ricoh and New MLG as smaller arena options. MLG is quite busy even minus it's Ryerson events and is used for sports and non sports events frequently. Part of MLG's success is it managed by a reputable arena company, Spectrum, that is aggressive with filling it with events.

Northland could still work as a community and smaller event focused arena.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

http://www.tsn.ca/group-makes-very-c...chise-1.917745

Group makes ‘very credible’ pitch for Halifax CFL franchise

A group of businessmen with ties to Eastern Canada would like to make the Canadian Football League’s dream of a tenth franchise come true in Halifax.

The group made a presentation to the league’s board of governors several weeks ago in Toronto. Meetings have since taken place with various levels of government in Nova Scotia, including an in-camera session with Halifax city council this week that was attended by CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie.

Central to the idea is the construction of a multi-purpose stadium, at one of several locations currently being explored – one of which is the Shannon Park, located next to the A. Murray MacKay Bridge.

Commissioner Ambrosie is expected to update the league’s board of governors on the state of the Halifax proposal when they meet the day before Grey Cup Sunday.