CFL in the Maritimes

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

the fact remains...moncton has been able to accomplish the following 2 crucial steps, that halifax has not.

1. a partnership with the cfl.
2. a stadium sufficient enough to host a cfl game.

regardless of driving times, cma populations & median household incomes, the 2 crucial facts set the city's far apart. until halifax can provide the basic 'building' blocks required to host a game, this is a one horse race.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames

the fact remains...moncton has been able to accomplish the following 2 crucial steps, that halifax has not.

1. a partnership with the cfl.
2. a stadium sufficient enough to host a cfl game.

regardless of driving times, cma populations & median household incomes, the 2 crucial facts set the city's far apart. until halifax can provide the basic 'building' blocks required to host a game, this is a one horse race.

1. Wrong Halifax already hosted a CFL game
2. Halifax had the CFL play at Huskies field. Moncton's stadium is good enough to hold 1 game, not a teams whole season.

Its a small stadium with 10,000 seats built with temporary seating to make it 20,000. You can't have a half-assed temporary stadium if you want to host a team. Its going cost millions of dollars to bring that stadium up to CFL standards for hosting a team, almost as much money as would cost to build a new stadium in Halifax. On top of that you have a track around the field which is not a good design for a football stadium.

It's not a one horse race, there is interests in Quebec City, Halifax, and even London, Ontario. What people in Moncton might realize is that this CFL event is just a way to gauge interest in Atlantic Canada for a team down the road. What they don't realize is that the CFL is just using Moncton's stadium, since it's the best we have in the region to promote the league and have no real interest in putting a team in Moncton anytime soon.

If an owner and the league wants to locate a team down here in the next 5-10 years they are going to want it to be in the largest city and with a real stadium (30,000 plus which could be built in Halifax from scratch the right way).

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

- I think that proportionately, 2,000 average attendance for a Mt. A. game is very good........I don't think we should be dragging American universities like Auburn and Notre Dame into this debate. Laval however is a good analogy. It is exciting to see that they can have attendance figures of about 17,000 per game but Laval's enrollment is 38,000!!! Proportionately speaking, the attendance at Mt. A, games is twice as good as Laval's. Laval is also situated at the heart of a metropolitan area of over 700,000. Mt. A. is situated at the edge of a metropolitan population of 133,000.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that attendance at college football games needs to come from the student body. The reason I mentioned some US colleges was to show you that it just ain't so. Once again you mention things like Laval's student body number?

The only relevant number is the population of Quebec City and Moncton. Laval draws about 2.5% of Quebec City's population while Mt. Allison draws about 1.1% of Moncton's. Not bad, but why not compare yourself to a real football hotbed since that is the argument that is trying to be made: that Moncton is a sports hotbed? Alabama, Nebraska, Saskatchewan?

2,000 may be good for a school of 2,500 students, but atrocious considering it's the province's only college football team. There are 739,000 people in New Brunswick. 739,000!!!! This is not about whether Mt. Allison is a jock school, it's about whether New Brunswick supports its teams.

I'm perplexed as to why you don't get that. You keep going back to the number of students at that school and that it's not a jock school. That has very little to do with it. So many Canadians just can't get past the idea that college teams are for every one, not just the students!!!!!!

Not just for students!

New Brunswick has a long way to go to match places like Saskatchewan and Nebraska when it comes to support for football. A similar situation in New Brunswick would translate to crowds from 25,000 to 35,000 at Mt. Allison games. We do need to make comparisons like this, because this is the type of football fervour that's needed in New Brusnsick if they are to successfully support a CFL team. New Brunswick is going to have to recreate exactly that kind of passion for football.

You're looking at a 10 to 20 fold increase in interest over what New Brunswick has managed to drum up so far. I want New Brunswick to get a team, but I'm not going to gloss over the facts, make excuses, or spin things to suit my wishes.



This is a start, but try building on that. Let's get that 1,400 attendance up to 4,000 for next year. In 2011 aim for 7,000. In 2012 aim for 14,000. In 2013 aim for 20,000, and so on. If you want to prove to the CFL and Canada that you deserve a team, stop making excuses and start making the case for Moncton by showing up en masse to support the biggest football program you currently have: Mt. Allison. Talk is cheap. All I've heard is excuses so far. How about some more bums in the seats?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by q12

If u think there is a CFL football market (I repeat market, not population) for 2 CFL teams in the Maritimes you are living in a pipe dream up there. Most sport fans around here would rather watch a rerun NHL game from 20 years ago than a live CFL game on TV.

You're living in a bit of a bubble if you believe that the Maritimes isn't prime football territory. The #1 deal in sports in Nova Scotia is SMU Football. Hockey isn't even #2 in that province, basketball is. Despite this advantage, the Maritimes still isn't football focused to the degree it needs to be to land CFL franchises. New Brunswick and Nova Scotia both have the population base to support their own CFL teams. The only thing standing in the way of 2 teams in the Maritimes is a population that wants it badly enough.

People down there are still far too content watching other people's teams on television. If Maritimers loved football the way people in Saskatchewan do and demanded their own teams, they'd already be 2 CFL teams down there.

It's not a population problem, it's cultural:

Saskatchewan: 1,023,810
Nova Scotia: 939,531
New Brunswick: 748,319

PEI: 140,402

[kirjtc2]

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Cornhuskers are to Nebraska what the Canadiens are to Montreal or the Red Sox are to Boston...their second religion. There isn't the football culture anywhere in Canada, or at least in this half of the country, to get those kind of numbers.

The quality of play in Canadian university football is about the same as Division II in the US, not the Division I-A game you see in those 100K seat stadiums every Saturday. And on top of that...Mount A hasn't exactly had a tradition of success lately...6 wins in the last 5 years.

And maybe if Halifax got off their duffs and built something half-decent, we wouldn't even be having this Moncton debate. The fact is that Halifax didn't and Moncton did, and there's still no concrete plans out of Halifax to change that. Their loss is Moncton's gain. And if people by the thousands come from Halifax to those concerts on Magnetic Hill, they'll come see a CFL game in Moncton, civic pride be damned.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Cornhuskers are to Nebraska what the Canadiens are to Montreal or the Red Sox are to Boston...their second religion. There isn't the football culture anywhere in Canada, or at least in this half of the country, to get those kind of numbers.

That's my point exactly. Football has to become religion for it to work in the Maritimes. There is precedent in Canada, btw. If you look at Saskatchewan, their attendance numbers stand up favourably to the most football crazy jurisdictions on the continent.

There is no reason why it can happen in Nebraska and Saskatchewan, but it can't happen in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The difference is that people in those first two places built their teams into what they are today. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick can have the same, but they have to do put in the same amount of time, money, and support.

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

The quality of play in Canadian university football is about the same as Division II in the US, not the Division I-A game you see in those 100K seat stadiums every Saturday. And on top of that...Mount A hasn't exactly had a tradition of success lately...6 wins in the last 5 years.

Do you think programs like the Cornhuskers or Notre Dame started off at the calibre you see today? Those programs started out like every other football team did. The people in those communities supported their team, built it up, and over the decades they turned a football team into a juggernaut. That doesn't happen in a vaccuum. It depends entirely on the support of the communities in which they exist.

Canadian college football is no different. Saying it's of a lesser quality football so I won't support it, is a self full filling prophecy. It will always remain of lower calibre if people have that mentality. Do you think people in Nebraska and Notre Dame thought that way? No, they built their teams into what they are today over decades of hard work.

I get really tired of hearing people think they deserve these amazing sports teams, but aren't willing to put in the work and support to build them. Americans deserve the teams they have because they put in the time and effort. If we want that, we have to do the same. That means showing up to Mt. Allison and SMU games, buying tickets and merchandise, watching on television, and helping to grow those teams into something far bigger and better than they are today.

You get what you sow.

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

And maybe if Halifax got off their duffs and built something half-decent, we wouldn't even be having this Moncton debate. The fact is that Halifax didn't and Moncton did, and there's still no concrete plans out of Halifax to change that. Their loss is Moncton's gain. And if people by the thousands come from Halifax to those concerts on Magnetic Hill, they'll come see a CFL game in Moncton, civic pride be damned.

I agree with this last paragraph 100%.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

And maybe if Halifax got off their duffs and built something half-decent, we wouldn't even be having this Moncton debate. The fact is that Halifax didn't and Moncton did, and there's still no concrete plans out of Halifax to change that. Their loss is Moncton's gain. And if people by the thousands come from Halifax to those concerts on Magnetic Hill, they'll come see a CFL game in Moncton, civic pride be damned.

I have said much the same thing on several occasions.......Halifax let a golden opportunity fall by the wayside with the failed Commonwealth Games bid. They could already be pouring cement for a CFL grade stadium with 35,000 seats, but they aren't and as far as I know, there are no immediate plans to do so.

If Halifax had moved forward on this issue and had started the process of acquiring a CFL team to fill this stadium, I would have been as happy as anyone else, and I would have looked forward to my once or twice yearly trips down to Haligonia to catch a game.......I wouldn't have let wounded civic pride get in my way.

Halifax however has dropped the ball and given Moncton an opening which they are attempting to exploit. As MonctonGoldenFlames has pointed out, we have built a stadium and have formed a partnership with the CFL. Halifax has not. Where this will ultimately end up going, I have no idea.

I am under no illusions that this will be easy and I know that the cards are stacked against us but Moncton is now carrying the ball and we will just have to wait and see how close to the end zone we get. A last minute interception by Halifax is certainly a strong possibility and given the strength of their offense, anything is possible. It is still early in the game.

A CFL team in Moncton is not a complete pipe dream. There are people in Moncton who have pockets deep enough to help finance a CFL team. I can think of as least a half dozen individuals right off hand worth at least $100M who could step forward. Sponsorship of the team (or stadium) also may not be a problem. Molson's for example would seem to be a good choice. They do have a brewery in Moncton. We have other things in our playbook than just central location and supportive civic and provincial administrations.

It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out over the next five or so years......both Moncton and Halifax are in the game but at present, Moncton has possession of the ball and is progressing down the field.

[q12]

Well Moncton is always right so I guess their destined to get a CFL team.

I think there are a few more AC/DC fans than CFL fans.

Corporations like Molson don't throw money away at half-assed ideas like the government does.

Your going to need a lot of money to upgrade that to a REAL CFL caliber stadium, just like Halifax needs money to build a new one so there is no huge advantage to Moncton.

If political will in Halifax changes or enough private interests come around a stadium could be built in Halifax sooner than you think.

[mylesmalley]

This has to be one of the most asinine threads on SPP. Seriously. It's the same re-hashed arguments repeated over and over through 15 pages of posts.

You guys are all letting the delusional ravings of a few Times and Transcript 'columnists' whip up a firestorm about a complete non-issue.

There's absolutely nothing holding back Halifax from trying to get a team. I really don't see what the problem is with Moncton trying as well. What difference does it make? I mean really? If Moncton shoots way too high and goes after a team and it fails, it fails. That's it. If it succeeds, yay Moncton. The same is true for Halifax. Who does it harm either way? When you get down to it, it's the private investors and the CFL that make the decisions and spend the money. They're the ones who will make the decision.

Competition is a good thing, guys. Lets just try to keep things in perspective.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Originally Posted by q12

1. Wrong Halifax already hosted a CFL game
2. Halifax had the CFL play at Huskies field. Moncton's stadium is good enough to hold 1 game, not a teams whole season.

Its a small stadium with 10,000 seats built with temporary seating to make it 20,000. You can't have a half-assed temporary stadium if you want to host a team. Its going cost millions of dollars to bring that stadium up to CFL standards for hosting a team, almost as much money as would cost to build a new stadium in Halifax. On top of that you have a track around the field which is not a good design for a football stadium.

first off, halifax hosted an exhibition game. the difference between exhibition and regular season is huge for a neutral site game.

second, whether a stadium has all permanent seats, all temporary seats or a combination of both, such as moncton, it still holds the same amount of people. here in calgary, they have installed temporary seating for around 5,000 fans for the grey cup. but those seats have been in place for the whole season, so clearly, the cfl and the stampeders believe that temporary seating is acceptable for at least a full season. as for the track around the field, edmonton also has a world class quality track surrounding it's football field and it does not affect the football, nor does it affect the highest average attendance in the cfl.

percival molson stadium in montreal has a capacity of 20,202, so to say that 20,000 seating capacity in moncton is too small, you are wrong.

Originally Posted by q12

It's not a one horse race, there is interests in Quebec City, Halifax, and even London, Ontario. What people in Moncton might realize is that this CFL event is just a way to gauge interest in Atlantic Canada for a team down the road. What they don't realize is that the CFL is just using Moncton's stadium, since it's the best we have in the region to promote the league and have no real interest in putting a team in Moncton anytime soon.

i never included any cities other than moncton and halifax in my opinion. the discussion is between these 2 cities.

moncton does realize that there are no guarantees of getting a team just because we got 1 regular season game. but as you said, it is the best stadium in the region, so by that logic, until somehting changes, moncton is the only city that could be the home of a cfl franchise. could halifax build a stadium, sure, but until it happens, it's moncton's ball to run with.

Originally Posted by q12

If an owner and the league wants to locate a team down here in the next 5-10 years they are going to want it to be in the largest city and with a real stadium (30,000 plus which could be built in Halifax from scratch the right way).

if an owner realizes that a larger potential fan base could bring more fans, he will go to that market. here in calgary, people travel from medicine hat, red deer, lethbridge and all small towns in between. back to the stadium again eh? if either city is granted a team, a proper stadium will be mandatory. sure a stadium could be built from scratch right away in halifax, but the stadium in moncton would only need to be expanded cheaper than building completely new in halifax.

[JasonL-Moncton]

most sense made in the last 15 pages

JL

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton

most sense made in the last 15 pages

JL

I agree. All I've heard the same tired arguments over and over again. Time to put your money where your mouth is. Put some bums in the seats at football games. That's what counts, but hasn't happened yet.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

More Metro (Moncton) CFL plans in works
Published Tuesday October 13th, 2009

[B]League officials to hold news conference in Moncton for 2010 football game
By NEIL HODGE
TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF

There are 250,000 people within one hour of Moncton. Proponents of a CFL franchise here point out the city is the geographic centre of the Maritimes and an ideal location because it has the region's largest population drawing power.

Fowler noted that next year's CFL game in Moncton is expected to have a $4 million economic spinoff on the community.

"We're looking at ticket pricing that will be compatible with regular season games in other markets,'' he said.

"We haven't finalized it yet, but there won't be premium pricing for this game.''

Congrats to Moncton .... I think this is a great step for the CFL and Moncton.

I have to admit I am fairly confused as to why markets like Moncton and/or Halifax have taken so long to build a stadium ... as that would be the only thing keep a market from having its own CFL team.

I mean 4 million dollars spin off per game .... which I think is on the low side, if people are coming into town from the surrounding population.

Anyways .. I will look forward to watching the game from Mocton on TV. Needless to say I'd expect the game to be sold out in short order.

[kirjtc2]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...097G-QNaKC_ywA

Source: Toronto Argonauts to play 2010 regular-season home game in Moncton

By Dan Ralph (CP) – 1 hour ago

TORONTO — For one game, anyway, the Toronto Argonauts will call Moncton, N.B., home.

Two CFL sources told The Canadian Press on Wednesday that the Argos will be the home team for a regular-season game that will be played in New Brunswick next season. The league will make the official announcement Thursday at a news conference in Moncton.

But the CFL won't immediately reveal who Toronto's opponent will be for the game, which will be played at the University of Moncton's new track stadium. One of the sources said the visiting team will be unveiled when the league releases its 2010 schedule.

This will mark the first time the CFL has ever played a game in Moncton but it's not the league's first trip to the Maritimes. The Argos and Hamilton Tiger-Cats played an exhibition game in Halifax in 2005.

That game was to serve as a gauge for possible CFL expansion and tickets at Huskies Stadium - which had a seating capacity of 11,000 - quickly sold out. Nothing was resolved in the field, however, as the two teams battled to a 16-16 tie but it attracted 11,148 fans, thanks to the construction of temporary seating.

The CFL was to stage another exhibition game there in 2006 but the suspension of the Ottawa Renegades, who were scheduled to play in the contest, forced it to be cancelled outright.

Expanding into the Maritimes has long been a goal of the CFL, which in '84 granted a conditional expansion team for Halifax that was to be called the Atlantic Schooners. But the franchise folded without playing a single game after financing for a new stadium couldn't be secured.

That hasn't stopped talk about a CFL team based in the Maritimes - with present CFL commissioner Mark Cohon and his predecessor Tom Wright both expressing interest in expansion to the East coast. But invariably the lack of a suitable stadium has always been the biggest hurdle to overcome.

The CFL granted Ottawa a conditional expansion franchise in 2008 then in March 2009 granted the group headed up by Ottawa 67s owner Jeff Hunt an extension to secure a deal with the city regarding a new stadium. Presently, the Hunt group is in exclusive talks with civic officials regarding the re-development of Lansdowne Park, which would include the refurbishing of Frank Clair Stadium.

The addition of a team in Ottawa would give the CFL a total of nine franchises and potentially allow the Winnipeg Blue Bombers to return to the West Division, this creating more geographically correct divisional alignments. But further adding a franchise in the Maritimes would not only give the league 10 teams and the opportunity for a balanced schedule, but also make it make it truly national in scope with representation from coast to coast.

There was persistent talk that a stadium could be built as part of Halifax's bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games. But that ended when the city withdrew its bid in March 2007.

There was talk of Moncton officials negotiating a five-year deal with the CFL to stage regular-season games in there. However, the two sides reached an agreement to play a 2010 contest there and see how that went before moving forward on talk about a multi-year agreement.

[MonctonRad]

I'm not surprised that the "home" team for the event would be the Argos........ if there was one city that they could take away a CFL home game from and they wouldn't notice (and not much care), it would be Toronto.

It doesn't matter, I like the Argos. Now I want to know the opponent, the ticket prices and the exact date...........

Aaaaaarrrrgoooooohs!!

[isaidso]

I hope it's Saskatchewan! The CFL would be wise to bring 'Canada's Team' out east.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I hope it's Saskatchewan! The CFL would be wise to bring 'Canada's Team' out east.

I don't think that would happen. Oddly enough, so far this year Saskatchewan has been Toronto's biggest draw (bigger than the first time Hamilton was there too, which to me is surprising). They wouldn't be taking one of the bigger draws out of Toronto. Would be cool, but wouldn't happen in my opinion. The Toronto owners probably wouldn't agree to forgoing that revenue.

[Rottie]

Great news for Atlantic Canada and the CFL. Hope this translates into a permanent team for the maritimes soon. The CFL needs some new blood.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton

most sense made in the last 15 pages

JL

thanks, the sourness coming out of halifax surprised me. if they are so upset, do someting about it and make it an issue at the municipal level. i would love to see a team in moncton, but i'd rather have a successful team in the maritimes over having no team at all. halifax just sounds like 'us or nobody'.

[MonctonRad]

Argos to host 2010 CFL game
Published Thursday October 15th, 2009

Former CFL executive and local resident to be named head of Moncton's CFL host committee
By Brent Mazerolle
Times & Transcript Staff

In advance of today's official press conference, Moncton city officials have confirmed that the Argos will be the home team for a regular-season game that will be played in Moncton next season.

Brent Scrimshaw, VP Atlantic Loto will help bring a CFL football game to Moncton in 2010. Ian Fowler, General Manager of Moncton's Recreation, Parks, Tourism and Culture department, confirmed the host team yesterday and said further details will be released during a press conference scheduled for the Moncton Coliseum at noon today.

Among those attending today's press conference will be Brent Scrimshaw. Although he's a relatively new resident to the Metro area, he has been and will continue to be instrumental in bringing the historic kickoff to Moncton.

Five years ago, Brent, the former Canadian Football League's senior vice-president for marketing and partnerships, was one of two people tasked with choosing between Moncton and Halifax as a site for an exhibition game.

Brent chose Halifax for the CFL, "because at the time Halifax had the better stadium."

He chose Moncton for something a bit more important -- his family.

Now skip ahead for a moment to 2009 and pretend you're advertising to find someone to lead the local host committee tasked with ensuring next September's CFL game in Moncton comes off without a hitch.

Here's the sort of ad you might run:

We are seeking someone with extensive executive experience in marketing and business development in the entertainment and professional sports industries to bring the CFL to Moncton.

Must have demonstrated a strong belief in Metro Moncton through concrete actions. Previous experience working with the CFL a definite asset.

Most of us wouldn't have the curriculum vitae for the job, but Brent Scrimshaw does.

Brent has been a Riverview resident and the executive vice president for Business Development at the Atlantic Lottery Corporation for the past three years. And as will be formally announced today, he is now also the new head of Moncton's CFL host committee for next year's regular season game being held at the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium on the Université de Moncton campus.

There's bound to be plenty said when CFL commissioner Mark Cohon, Atlantic Gateway minister Peter MacKay, New Brunswick Premier Shawn Graham and Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc gather at noon, so we wanted to be sure the story of how our community wooed two executives -- Brent's wife Lorraine brought her position with Vancouver-based international executive search firm Ray & Berndtson with her -- to Metro didn't get lost in the mix.

Here's Brent, quoted in a Times & Transcript news story Sept. 29, 2004, just after he toured Metro on the CFL fact-finding mission:

"I would say we've had an exceptional 30 hours in Moncton. We looked at some outstanding facilities. More importantly, I think we saw a community at all levels -- business, government and volunteers -- that's very much engaged in this project that we're talking about. Our report back to the commissioner will be nothing but positives."

When the Times & Transcript spoke to Brent yesterday, it became clear just how sincere he had been with his praise for Moncton all those years ago. Whatever the future brings, already, "the history of the CFL in Moncton was certainly a life-changer for me," he said.

"I was overwhelmed with the spirit of Moncton," he recalled of that visit. "When I got home (to Toronto), I said to my wife, 'if there was ever an opportunity...'"

He had talked the talk, and then just six months later, when opportunity knocked, Brent Scrimshaw walked the walk, taking the position at the Moncton-based Atlantic Lottery Corporation.

As mentioned, Lorraine, in the best 21st century tradition, moved her job here, having already brought it once before from Vancouver to Toronto. The couple's daughter, Mackenzie, arrived just in time to start her high school years at Riverview High.

Besides his almost five years with the CFL, Brent spent two years as executive director of the PGA Tour's Air Canada Championship, and most of the 1990s with Molson Canada, first as president of Molstar Sports & Entertainment and then as Molson's vice-president for marketing, Western Canada.

He said yesterday he will be assembling his host committee over the next few weeks, and he is confident the community he and his family have embraced will make the CFL's debut here a success.

"Certainly, the football community here is loud and strong, and there are others in the city who have proven they can organize large events."

Personal note: The husband of the CEO of Atlantic Lotto also is a big CFL'er. He is Jan Carinci, who had a 10 year career in the CFL as a slotback with both the Argonauts and the BC Lions. There are other ex-CFL players in the metro area too. I imagine that they will all be heavily involved in the planning process and/or the host committee.