AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

With all due respect, you are 100% sounding NIMBY. I respect what you "want." However, that is not reality.

That area of Austin has seen an incredible amount of growth in the last 20 years. It's only a matter of time that 290 and 71 will need to be improved similar to what happened to US-183 20-25 years ago. People want AND are moving to Austin's southwest and western suburbs. TX-71 and US-290 are the main thoroughfares into Austin from those locations. The "Y" must be expanded and improved to stay ahead of the growth.

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Loop 360 is a failure. It was built in the late 1960's with no forethought of future growth in the area. Both MoPac and 360 are parking lots during rush hours (pre-COVID and will be again soon). They are in no way efficient in getting traffic moving in the best way possible.

30,000 new single family homes 20 miles from downtown Austin is the norm for a large metro area. Austin is becoming a large metro. Get on board or move away. You and the other NIMBYs cannot stop the allure of Austin. Accept that growth is inevitable and then become a member of those who want to really make it work.

Yes, I know that area has already seen a lot of growth, and that's unfortunate, but just because it is doesn't mean it should be. Or maybe people really do love I-35 in its form, for example. I just think there's a better way of building the highway to respect the aesthetics of the area. I mean, if people are picking the area for its beauty then it doesn't really make sense to undo it by overrunning it with thousands of acres of cookie-cutter suburbs. Or maybe it's not about aesthetics but affordability that is causing the growth out there, though, I'd hardly call it affordable and it's certainly not sustainable.

As to Loop 360, again, it's a place that should never have been developed, at least not on the level it has been. I would have rather it been parkland maybe with housing on the edges. But of course, people had to have what they wanted. You can call me a nimby for being grossed out by it, but they were also demanding something be in a place that should have been for everyone, not just a few. Now those few are complaining about the traffic and want everyone to pay for it. I love that area, but other than the beauty of it, I have no conceivable reason to drive down Loop 360 and would have even less of a reason to if it were rebuilt into a concrete beast in the way that I-35 is. Let them toll 360 if they want an improvement.

[The ATX]

Loop 360 was completed in the 80s. Being able to live and work in the hills is a huge draw for people and companies (aka jobs) moving to Austin. I'm glad 360 was built and especially for the iconic bridge. But I'm equally happy the the Balcones Canyonlands wildlife refugee was created and is acquiring more land as it becomes available.

[KevinFromTexas]

Yeah, the 80s, not 60s. The Pennybacker Bridge wasn't completed until 1982. It's crazy to think that at the time the Pennybacker Bridge was wrapping up construction they were just clearing the site for the One American Center.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Loop 360 was completed in the 80s. Being able to live and work in the hills is a huge draw for people and companies (aka jobs) moving to Austin. I'm glad 360 was built and especially for the iconic bridge. But I'm equally happy the the Balcones Canyonlands wildlife refugee was created and is acquiring more land as it becomes available.

Living in the hills is still a huge draw, but as someone who has worked in multiple class A buildings on 360 over the past decade+, I don't think the office space draw is nearly as great as maybe it once was. Most of the companies currently renting these spaces are not top-of-class companies - those guys are all moving to more urban/mixed environments.

The landlords for their part seem to realize that the physical environment itself is not enough to be able to compete with the Domain and other spots and they've been going crazy adding/updating their amenities (gyms, lounges, lobbies, walking trails, shade, etc) recently.

[KevinFromTexas]

We got rear ended on I-35 a couple of years ago, and our lawyer was in an office on Loop 360 in a 4 story building. They had nice views of downtown, at least, but it was a fairly small building. I think what companies are mostly interested in now are larger more modern spaces. It's probably true that other smaller companies are filling those offices along Loop 360 instead of being a serious target market for companies looking to move here in a major way.

[papertowelroll]

Originally Posted by atxsnail

The landlords for their part seem to realize that the physical environment itself is not enough to be able to compete with the Domain and other spots and they've been going crazy adding/updating their amenities (gyms, lounges, lobbies, walking trails, shade, etc) recently.

I'd hate to work in that area. It's beautiful but the commute on those roads is horrific. Frankly when companies locate out there I can't help but think it's the C team selfishly giving themselves easy commutes.

But I don't think I'd want 360 to be a giant freeway. That area of the city doesn't need a huge population. I'd prefer more density and transit in the closer-in parts of the city with less environmental challenges.

[drummer]

I wouldn't mind seeing the stoplights go away, but I wouldn't want access roads running the full length of it. Same with 620. Unfortunately the sprawl created that mess and it needs to be cleaned up, but a no-build scenario doesn't seem to be the best answer here.

When I consider the Y, that really does need an upgrade. The volume of cars necessitates it, and there's no other option. Both corridors (290 and 71) are both set to grow tremendously over the coming decades whether I (we) like it or not. We have to plan for it pragmatically and encourage more density and better planning in the core at the same time.

[lonewolf]

there are too many aquifer recharge zones, environmentally sensitive areas, preserves, sanctuaries etc on the immediate west side of town for it to see the sprawl that has gone north, east and south. 290 will continue to see sprawl but it ain't going to happen on 360/620/71 corridors. i guess 620 can support a bit more development

not to mention a concentration of wealthy landowners and a hilly topography. if you ask me 360 was designed to restrict development

[drummer]

I agree with 360 and 620 to a degree, but 71 west of the Pedernales is going to blow up from Spicewood to Marble Falls. It's already beginning to happen.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by drummer

I wouldn't mind seeing the stoplights go away, but I wouldn't want access roads running the full length of it. Same with 620. Unfortunately the sprawl created that mess and it needs to be cleaned up, but a no-build scenario doesn't seem to be the best answer here.

TxDOT already has some plans to replace most of the stoplights on 360 with over/underpasses. Also, there will be few (if any) additional frontage roads. I'm sure the details can be found with a little Googling.

[dilliam]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Loop 360 is a failure. It was built in the late 1960's with no forethought of future growth in the area. Both MoPac and 360 are parking lots during rush hours (pre-COVID and will be again soon). They are in no way efficient in getting traffic moving in the best way possible.

30,000 new single family homes 20 miles from downtown Austin is the norm for a large metro area. Austin is becoming a large metro. Get on board or move away. You and the other NIMBYs cannot stop the allure of Austin. Accept that growth is inevitable and then become a member of those who want to really make it work.

I get what you're saying about anti-growth NIMBYs, but idk if wanting to stop sprawl is necessarily a purely NIMBY desire. I'm very much YES IN MY BACKYARD, but I would so much rather revamp the land development code and enable a 15,000 duplexes in actual walkable and livable neighborhoods. It sucks to artificially boost single family suburban homes by having land use regulations in the city. Make the playing level even, build both and let the market decide... in the meantime, housing price increases would chill out and we could use a portion of the newly realized tax base to preserve (or maybe even restore) the natural beauty that we have.

[drummer]

Originally Posted by paul78701

TxDOT already has some plans to replace most of the stoplights on 360 with over/underpasses. Also, there will be few (if any) additional frontage roads. I'm sure the details can be found with a little Googling.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to - and I was adding that hope for 620 as well. I know they're doing something with 620 at Anderson Mill and 2222, or at least I think they are...

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by drummer

Yeah, that's what I was referring to - and I was adding that hope for 620 as well. I know they're doing something with 620 at Anderson Mill and 2222, or at least I think they are...

I believe that 620 will be getting an overpass there and that there will be some frontage roads at that intersection for getting on and off of it.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by drummer

I wouldn't mind seeing the stoplights go away, but I wouldn't want access roads running the full length of it. Same with 620. Unfortunately the sprawl created that mess and it needs to be cleaned up, but a no-build scenario doesn't seem to be the best answer here.

When I consider the Y, that really does need an upgrade. The volume of cars necessitates it, and there's no other option. Both corridors (290 and 71) are both set to grow tremendously over the coming decades whether I (we) like it or not. We have to plan for it pragmatically and encourage more density and better planning in the core at the same time.

I wouldn't mind a more Mopac model for 360 and the Y for that matter, but I wonder how they would address the need for exits to the surrounding neighborhoods on 360. 360 is a special case with the limestone walls surrounding it, so there isn't much right of way on either side. I also wouldn't want to see them shore up those walls with concrete, which would totally ruin the look.

Highway construction and engineering are pretty much one of the least interesting areas of city planning to me. I'm mostly interested in the aesthetics of highway building, namely, how to make it not appear soulless and ugly.

[JollyvilleJ-Rad]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I wouldn't mind a more Mopac model for 360 and the Y for that matter, but I wonder how they would address the need for exits to the surrounding neighborhoods on 360. 360 is a special case with the limestone walls surrounding it, so there isn't much right of way on either side. I also wouldn't want to see them shore up those walls with concrete, which would totally ruin the look.

Highway construction and engineering are pretty much one of the least interesting areas of city planning to me. I'm mostly interested in the aesthetics of highway building, namely, how to make it not appear soulless and ugly.

Ha! When first started lurking on this forum it was the transportation thread as I sat on the bus to campus in 2012 appalled by the traffic. I was really curious and interested in highway expansion, but the time I've spent reading all of the diverse viewpoints on this thread and others have certainly made me more pro-transit/density. That said, I'm not opposed to the 360 or Y projects.

As for how they plan to expand with the limestone, the ROW extends well into the cliffs and more demo looks likely. This presentation about the Westlake Drive area has proposed schematics and visuals that give a pretty good sense of how they will likely proceed:

https://www.loop360project.com/docs/...ectUpdates.pdf

This is a detailed schematic for the proposals in the Lakewood/Spicewood Springs area:

https://www.loop360project.com/docs/...s_June2019.pdf

Sorry if this is a redundant post! I don't remember seeing these on here, though.

[Mikey711MN]

Originally Posted by JollyvilleJ-Rad

Ha! When first started lurking on this forum it was the transportation thread as I sat on the bus to campus in 2012 appalled by the traffic. I was really curious and interested in highway expansion, but the time I've spent reading all of the diverse viewpoints on this thread and others have certainly made me more pro-transit/density. That said, I'm not opposed to the 360 or Y projects.

As for how they plan to expand with the limestone, the ROW extends well into the cliffs and more demo looks likely. This presentation about the Westlake Drive area has proposed schematics and visuals that give a pretty good sense of how they will likely proceed:

https://www.loop360project.com/docs/...ectUpdates.pdf

This is a detailed schematic for the proposals in the Lakewood/Spicewood Springs area:

https://www.loop360project.com/docs/...s_June2019.pdf

Sorry if this is a redundant post! I don't remember seeing these on here, though.

Speaking as one, it's good to have another transportation wonk here in the forums, so thanks for your contributions!

It's pretty hard to spot some old posts, so no harm in potentially reposting if it's been a while. The 360 stuff is pretty interesting.

[KevinFromTexas]

That's pretty fugly, though, I suppose if I had a gun held to my head, I'd pick the underpass option. Still would never drive the mainlanes, though. Why not just build a tunnel instead and create a boulevard at grade?

[Echostatic]

Why not just build a tunnel instead and create a boulevard at grade?

If you want to float the billions necessary for a major tunneling project in the hill country, go right ahead.

[KevinFromTexas]

Well, since that is the billionaire neighborhood of Austin, maybe?

[Dariusb]

Question: Is there a reason freeway loops haven't been built there unlike other Texas cities?