[Halifax] St. Joseph's Square (5450 Kaye) | 32 m | 9 fl | Completed

[halifaxboyns]

No word on how tall tower will be
Developer: Revised condo plan likely by end of year
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Wed, Oct 27 - 4:53 AM

Jerry Blumenthal has a good idea how tall the revised St. Joseph’s Square condo development in north-end Halifax will be, but he’s not talking.

"I think it’s coming down but I can’t say how many storeys," the District 11 councillor said in an interview Tuesday.

The former church site, bounded by Gottingen, Russell and Kaye streets, is owned by ECL General Partner IV Ltd., a division of the Sobeys-controlled Empire Co. Ltd.

ECL wanted to build an 11-storey, residential-commercial complex on the property, but the plan was opposed by area residents who said it was too tall and wouldn’t fit with the rest of the neighbourhood, where buildings are only as tall as seven storeys.

Municipal planners are working with ECL to revise the proposal.

On Tuesday, Luc Ouellet, a Halifax Regional Municipality planner said he is still waiting for a revised submission from ECL.

"They’re doing new plans with a reduced height," he said.

Ouellet said he didn’t know how much shorter the new proposal will be.

ECL development manager Virginia Bonn said the company is doing a concept costing before revising its original plan, which included a condo tower surrounded by two-storey townhouses and commercial space.

"We’re reviewing our options," she said.

Bonn said ECL is committed to the project and to the neighbourhood and hopes to submit its revised plan before the end of the year.

"It’s a great location," she said.

The revised plan will retain its original look and will incorporate stone salvaged from the church, which was torn down last year, to reflect its historical significance, Bonn said.

The site is zoned for institutional development and parks and would require a zoning change to proceed.

ECL estimates the development would take five years to complete, create 340 jobs and generate $2.5 million in taxes.

( berskine@herald.ca)


I think it's horrible they are lowering the proposal. I'd say thanks for your opinions, your wrong and push ahead with 11 storeys. These people need to learn that regardless of what height this building is - it just adds to the context and at some point, something taller than 10 stories will get build in that area.

[Phalanx]

I think that if the height is reduced, then they're going to have to change a lot more. It's going to look disproportionately squat if they keep the other dimensions and overall style - it just won't translate well. It was 'just right' as it was, and could even stand to add a story or two (for the sake of proportions - I understand not wanting to go too high under the circumstances).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I think it's horrible they are lowering the proposal. I'd say thanks for your opinions, your wrong and push ahead with 11 storeys. These people need to learn that regardless of what height this building is - it just adds to the context and at some point, something taller than 10 stories will get build in that area.

Unfortunately "pushing ahead" just means getting sent to the URB for a year (after a year-long delay from the HRM).

Of course, there's no guarantee that removing floors means it won't be appealed...

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

Unfortunately "pushing ahead" just means getting sent to the URB for a year (after a year-long delay from the HRM).

Of course, there's no guarantee that removing floors means it won't be appealed...

Well it's no better out here in CAlgary - a lot of these projects are appealed here too.

[Dmajackson]

The building has been knocked down to 9 floors now (27m). Here's the planning page and a rendering of the proposal from that page;

[halifaxboyns]

9 stories isn't so bad. This isn't too bad of a drawing. I haven't had time to look at the materials though; but the drawing is interesting. I think it really breaks up the wall design quite well.

[DigitalNinja]

I quite like it, the more good quality density, the better.

[Jstaleness]

Sad that it came down to floors and doesn't have the "tower" look the first renderings had. However, that hole has been there almost 2 years. It's time for this to go ahead.

[someone123]

Looks like another decent "background" infill building. Hard to tell from the rendering but the corner retail space looks fairly large.

As I've said before, add 30-50 of these to the North End (not unrealistic -- there have probably been more than a dozen in the last few years) and the area will improve dramatically. There will be a market for more local services so they will improve and there will be more jobs for locals (traditionally a problem for areas like Uniacke Square). Transit services like streetcar lines would definitely be worthwhile and the city would gain millions in annual property taxes compared to similar population growth in urban fringe areas. Nearby areas like Barrington would also benefit.

The city should be doing more to facilitate infill in this area (what is happening with Bloomfield?) and should be seriously looking at the kind of permanent transit infrastructure that makes it possible to live in the core without relying on a car from day to day.

[-Harlington-]

I liked the other renderings, but im not opposed to this

as mentioned above i think things like this are needed here.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Ugh, whatever, I don't see how 2 more floors was such an issue.

I don't mind the design, but why can't it be slightly taller!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Ugh, whatever, I don't see how 2 more floors was such an issue.

I don't mind the design, but why can't it be slightly taller!

<Sigh> Because this is Halifax, where anything above 4 storeys is TOO TALL!!!!!!

[halifaxboyns]

I agree, I'm not happy with the height being under 10 stories. But from a planning perspective; the more of these buildings that actually get approved and build - the more it builds a stronger context to say lets go slightly higher.

I'd rather see a few buildings around 9 stories get build (that would support context down the road to go up to 15) then a bunch of 12 storey buildings getting shot down - then nothing gets built at all.

[-Harlington-]

Welcome to Halifax, home of this kind of bullshit
lol, jk



Developer lops 3 stories off condo complex



By BILL POWER Business Reporter
Sat, Jun 25 - 4:55 AM
The developer has revamped the St. Joseph’s Square condominiums proposed for Gottingen Street, but a possible construction date remained a mystery Friday.


"Staff are reviewing the new proposal and a report is expected soon," Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said about the complex that has been reduced to eight storeys from eleven.

It features 12 units in a two-storey townhouse-style facade and a rooftop penthouse, for a total of 83 private residences and 5,000 square feet of retail-commercial space.

Blumenthal said the new proposal for a lower building from ECL General Partner IV Ltd., a division of Sobeys, controlled by Empire Company Ltd., works better in the location, between Kay and Russell streets, than the original eleven-storey proposal.

"This will fit (in) better with existing buildings in the neighbourhood and now it is just a matter of getting it built," said Blumenthal.

He said he had expected to see a staff report of the project included with the information package traditionally distributed on Fridays to councillors of Halifax Regional Municipality, but that was not the case.

If and when the project gets a nod at city hall, there will still be some provincial participation involved because of a zoning change requirement, said Michael April, vice-president of real estate services for ECL General.

"We’re not yet in a position where we can talk about a possible date to begin construction," he said.

Construction could potentially begin soon after required approvals for the project are obtained, as the lot remains excavated after the 2009 demolition of St. Joseph’s Church.

April said it is difficult to discuss pricing for units in the complex at this point, but there will be an effort to keep pricing in line with home costs in the historic Hydrostone area when they come on the market.

The website for the project ( www.stjosephssquare.com) notes the height of the building was reduced after a period of unprecedented public consultation.

Kassner Goodspeed Architects Ltd. in Halifax are project architects.

[fenwick16]

I had the same reaction. However, I think the Chronicle Herald is posting old news as if it is new. The rendering and height looks the same as it did in February.

[someone123]

I don't mind the height reduction much but I find the fixation on height numbers very silly.

What is the practical difference between a building of 8 floors and one with 11 floors? Or a 19 storey and 27 storey building?

I believe that a lot of people just believe "shorter is better" because they dislike development on an emotional level. They are happy with any reduction in height, even if it produces no practical improvements. Unfortunately, height reductions definitely come at the cost of reduced density and efficiency of new development. It also costs developers time and effort to revise proposals. During this time the city usually has to deal with an ugly empty lot.

[worldlyhaligonian]

This is crazy... are they implying its the 9 story or has that been reduced further to 6? There is no real difference in terms of human scale past 5/6 stories anyway. Halifax is a joke.

Look at The Welsford, its much taller than even the initial proposal and fits well in the neighborhood, fronting onto a major street. This is more bogus b/s.

[someone123]

I think they're still looking at 8 floors.

It would be interesting to poll people about the floor counts and heights of buildings in their neighbourhood. My guess is that normally they don't even notice the difference between 8 and 11 storey buildings.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think they're still looking at 8 floors.

It would be interesting to poll people about the floor counts and heights of buildings in their neighbourhood. My guess is that normally they don't even notice the difference between 8 and 11 storey buildings.

Yeah, nobody would even know if they weren't informed.

[Keith P.]

The developer should have proposed 27 floors and conceded down to 23.