International Place | ? m | 22 fl | On Hold

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Empire

It would be grandfathered as is Twisted Sisters.

That is what I thought.

[planarchy]

ECL also owns the ramp connecting Barrington to Hollis - bizarre but true . The site plan for the old design shows the ramp, but I assume the newer design removes the ramp.

With that in mind, the old design isn't so appropriate any more. It assumed the Cogswell was sticking around, and built accordingly with a rather hostile street wall along the Hollis ramp. Any new design needs to work within whatever street pattern they (re)introduce to the area. The old design also offers a pathetic integration with Granville. Anything built on this site owes Granville the respect that it deserves. Granville is a great area in the city and unfortunately hasn't had much of a chance due to poor connections.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by planarchy

ECL also owns the ramp connecting Barrington to Hollis - bizarre but true . The site plan for the old design shows the ramp, but I assume the newer design removes the ramp.

With that in mind, the old design isn't so appropriate any more. It assumed the Cogswell was sticking around, and built accordingly with a rather hostile street wall along the Hollis ramp. Any new design needs to work within whatever street pattern they (re)introduce to the area. The old design also offers a pathetic integration with Granville. Anything built on this site owes Granville the respect that it deserves. Granville is a great area in the city and unfortunately hasn't had much of a chance due to poor connections.

the new design i believe takes into account the road system that is part of HRM by design

[worldlyhaligonian]

I like the design, I think it could be tweaked to be made more attractive...

I want to see twins... copper domed towers in the cogswell interchange site like the two in the middle in nyc:

credit: High Performance HVAC Home Page



Taller than any other buildings as well.

[halifaxboyns]

I dunno; I think the old design could be tweaked and salvaged - there are parts of it that I rather like.

The modern one to me; just seems so linear. The old one has nice breaking up of the massing.

I actually like the fact that the old building does that; because it tricks the eye into seeing the streetwall as being shorter than it may be. With the new design; it does that too a point; but not as well I think. I've only seen the smaller rendering; so I'm not 100% sure.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I dunno; I think the old design could be tweaked and salvaged - there are parts of it that I rather like.

The modern one to me; just seems so linear. The old one has nice breaking up of the massing.

I actually like the fact that the old building does that; because it tricks the eye into seeing the streetwall as being shorter than it may be. With the new design; it does that too a point; but not as well I think. I've only seen the smaller rendering; so I'm not 100% sure.

Here is a link to the renderings of the new design - http://www.internationalplace.ca/images.shtml . The new design certainly looks great also. I like both but I prefer the previous design and I think it would fit Halifax better.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Wow, the website is back up... that is a good sign i guess.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Wow, the website is back up... that is a good sign i guess.

I think that it has been up all along but if you Google it one of the search results gives a link that doesn't work. I have been checking it about once a month for the past year or so.

I sometimes wonder if Sobeys will ever transfer their headquarters to Halifax. The International Place would be a good place to put the Headquarters if it moved, and ECL and Crombie REIT are part of the Empire conglomerate which also owns Sobeys. So financing certainly wouldn't be a problem with this project. Although I think there would have to be a good business case in order for Empire to proceed.

[Empire]

The old design has more of a financial/banking feel. It also looks more like a tower and blends the surrounding lowrise brick buildings in better. It appears the new design maxes out the footprint through the building so they tried to tone down the massing by making it light glass. The new design would look good on Young St.

[beyeas]

I actually love the new design, and think it relates to the street well.
Some aspects of it remind me a bit of some buildings I have seen in Nordic countries.

I also would love to see Empire move to Halifax, but to do so would require tax incentives etc from provincial and municipal governments, and that simply isn't politically feasible. No provincial government in their right mind would actively poach an employer from a rural region and plunk it into the "hated Halifax". As much as I would like to see it so, and as much as I believe in the "strong central core" theory of economic development... it would be political suicide. So short of Empire doing this on their own with incentive (which I don't see them doing), I don't think that will happen.

[macgregor]

I like both designs, but don't like the idea of blocking off Granville.

Whenever Cogswell Interchange gets demolished, will the streets still surround this lot in a triangle? I hope not. I'd rather see Granville continue as a pedestrian street for one more block. Some excellent buildings could be put on either side of that and it could integrate into the area.

ECL could get a land swap (pipe dream?).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by macgregor

I like both designs, but don't like the idea of blocking off Granville.

Whenever Cogswell Interchange gets demolished, will the streets still surround this lot in a triangle? I hope not. I'd rather see Granville continue as a pedestrian street for one more block. Some excellent buildings could be put on either side of that and it could integrate into the area.

ECL could get a land swap (pipe dream?).

I don't think it will be - but I share your dream. I like the idea.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by macgregor

I like both designs, but don't like the idea of blocking off Granville.

Whenever Cogswell Interchange gets demolished, will the streets still surround this lot in a triangle? I hope not. I'd rather see Granville continue as a pedestrian street for one more block. Some excellent buildings could be put on either side of that and it could integrate into the area.

ECL could get a land swap (pipe dream?).

I think it would be kind of cool for the streets to still be in a triangle... now this is the type of area where a public space would make sense... maybe get a bull and bear type statue down there.

[someone123]

I think the tower looks nice as a terminus to Granville Street, which has the Maritime Centre at the other end. It encloses Granville Mall and the glass cladding goes very nicely with the nearby stone facades, which really are a treasure for the city.

I wonder how likely it is that this tower will be built given how things are going downtown and how it has been 30 years since the original proposal. I guess it mostly comes down to whether or not they find a major tenant - Empire would fit the bill. It's not a particularly large building.

Something else to keep in mind is that many of the other towers are aging and they are not always going to be desirable places for the banks and other top companies to locate in. I think it would be very positive for the downtown if some new office towers were built and some of the older ones (Centennial Building, Royal Bank, and similar buildings) are converted to residential. The mixed use model is greatly preferable to 1970s-style planning with office towers, parking lots, and suburban commuters.

[worldlyhaligonian]

That is a great idea... refit for residential and build new office towers in the cogswell site.

[someone123]

There's also an advantage to having cheap, low-end office space downtown in older buildings. Obviously the owners of these buildings don't like to see their rents fall, but if you've rented out a building for 35 years you've probably done okay.

I've seen a few cases where smaller business have looked for space downtown and had a hard time finding it. They ended up in suburban office parks, but those are much less desirable for workers. I personally despise the lifestyle of places like Burnside, where you're looking at a commute by car in heavy traffic and your lunch options consist of McDonald's and Wendy's. Areas like that are somewhat of a necessity for some operations but it's just sad that so much office space is being built out there. Mismanagement is the primary reason why those buildings aren't in the city.

[fenwick16]

(source: http://www.internationalplace.ca/Amenities.shtml )

International Place will be a part of Halifax’s convenient pedway system and is located next to downtown’s main public transportation hub, including the Metrolink and bus transit system. Included in the building will be a full service hotel, ground level retail space, 19,000 square feet of Class A office space and underground tenant parking. International place will also be built in line with cutting edge environmental technologies.

I pasted the quote above from the International Place website. This states that it contains a full service hotel and 19,000 square feet of Class A office space which is very little (it might be a mistake - they might have meant 19,000 square meters which would be about 205,000 square feet). So if the new convention centre goes ahead then it might actually result in the International Place going ahead because there might be more demand for hotel space. Since this is a mixed use building some floors could even be condominium.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

(source: http://www.internationalplace.ca/Amenities.shtml )


I pasted the quote above from the International Place website. This states that it contains a full service hotel and 19,000 square feet of Class A office space which is very little (it might be a mistake - they might have meant 19,000 square meters which would be about 205,000 square feet). So if the new convention centre goes ahead then it might actually result in the International Place going ahead because there might be more demand for hotel space. Since this is a mixed use building some floors could even be condominium.

its 19,000 square foot floor plates, with close to 400k in space.

And full service hotel is rooms, meeting and convention space, and full service catering and food services.

Rumour around the streets, which i posted in another thread, is that international place has been place on hold for a few years as the office market is headed back to the vacancy rates similar to what was experienced in the 90's.

It truly disappointing as i want this building to be built to enhance our skyline.

[fenwick16]

The vacancy rates that will occur in the future can't be known by anyone so where the vacancy rate is headed is purely speculation. Whether the economy in the HRM continues to improve or starts to decline will depend on the decisions of Halifax area business leaders and politicians.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The vacancy rates that will occur in the future can't be known by anyone so where the vacancy rate is headed is purely speculation. Whether the economy in the HRM continues to improve or starts to decline will depend on the decisions of Halifax area business leaders and politicians.

Agreed people can't predict accurately what the rate will be in the future, but one can see there are a number of industries in the local ecomony that are struggling and or phasing out.

One thing people fail to understand about office developments is that they require preleasing of a percentage of the total with lease terms of 10 years or greater to meet lender reguirements (currently requires 70-80%). If not then the developer would be building it by self financing it. A project the size of international place would probably be north of 70 million dollars, which is a lot of money to be putting on the table with no tenants signed, or into a market that has existing space that can undercut the price of new.

I can't stress it enough, but this development is just awesome, and i truly want it built.