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  #11041  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 12:57 AM
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Merewether Merewether is offline
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Hardison, at SE corner of South Temple and 500 East, seems nearing completion.
86CED438-5A55-4203-92FE-DCC592501231_1_105_c by MerewetherDB, on Flickr

7036FD89-426B-439A-8843-4014624B30A7_1_105_c by MerewetherDB, on Flickr
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  #11042  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 2:52 AM
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I'm surprised that the official 2020 census has SLC under 200k. Guessing with all the construction, it hits 210k+ by next census

https://www.ksl.com/article/50223253...merging-places
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  #11043  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 4:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
I'm surprised that the official 2020 census has SLC under 200k. Guessing with all the construction, it hits 210k+ by next census

https://www.ksl.com/article/50223253...merging-places
Really interesting how much Provo's population has slowed over the last two decade. Maybe it's an extension of not having a significant amount of land to build on but they only added 2,674 people.
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  #11044  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 5:02 AM
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So. I find those numbers a bit depressing. Salt Lake gained just over 16,000 people. We are the largest and premier city in Utah and really the only choice for "big city" living and yet Lehi, Herriman, South Jordan, St George, West Jordan etc. Each had more people choose to live in them than chose to live in Salt Lake City over the last decade.

I find it a bit disheartening that, for whatever reason, even after all the apartment construction that has happened, such an overwhelming number of people are still choosing to live in generic suburban and exurban areas.
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  #11045  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 7:09 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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I wonder how much of that growth in apartment living was offset by children aging out of their homes and moving to cheaper/more spacious suburbs, without a significant new generation of children to replace them. Salt Lake City may be seeing a huge boom in housing, but I would be interested to see how much of a drop it saw in people per housing unit.

Unfortunately suburban living is just in the Utah culture. Most families in Utah, especially LDS ones, do not want to raise their children in Salt Lake City these days.
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  #11046  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 1:00 PM
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I'd rather have a house and a yard. I don't want to live in a small apartment stacked with other people. I lived in apartments growing up and it sucks. Having a house and a yard, now that's something to aspire to.

I know that doesn't go over well on these boards, but I don't care.
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  #11047  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 2:28 PM
mattreedah mattreedah is offline
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It’s not only that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boz View Post
I'd rather have a house and a yard. I don't want to live in a small apartment stacked with other people. I lived in apartments growing up and it sucks. Having a house and a yard, now that's something to aspire to.

I know that doesn't go over well on these boards, but I don't care.
…I would never go from owning a home to renting an apartment. I would consider purchasing a condo, but those are few and far between with all this new construction.
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  #11048  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 3:14 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC14 View Post
So. I find those numbers a bit depressing. Salt Lake gained just over 16,000 people. We are the largest and premier city in Utah and really the only choice for "big city" living and yet Lehi, Herriman, South Jordan, St George, West Jordan etc. Each had more people choose to live in them than chose to live in Salt Lake City over the last decade.

I find it a bit disheartening that, for whatever reason, even after all the apartment construction that has happened, such an overwhelming number of people are still choosing to live in generic suburban and exurban areas.
There are a few things working here that will be a lot different come 2030.

1. Available land. Many of the Cities around SLC are built out or nearly built out now. Their growth will slow as they begin redevelopment.
2. Available Water. St. George will see slowing growth rates due to a combination of less water availability and an increase in impact fees.
3. Census under-count. Many areas of SLC were under counted due to COVID. Multiple groups have stated this for more than a year.
4. Housing costs. This combined with a shrinking of available land will continue to push housing costs higher at a fast rate. This will push more people to live in apartments.
5. Tech shifting to Cities. This started pre-COVID and will accelerate over the next 5 years.
6. Expanding Work from Home. While this has accelerated during COVID and is projected to slow over the next couple of years, SLC will benefit from this more than most other areas of the State due to:
7. Increased Night Life options. With the increasing number of people in and around the downtown area, we will see a continued increase in the number of options for residents and visitors.

These are some of the main reasons that SLC will see a major jump come the 2030 census. We may see some of this in the annual estimates over the next decade.

One thing to also point out, SLC gained approximately 16,000 residents by the official count but it was done almost completely via redevelopment. SLC had very little expansion of Single Family Homes. Additionally, the vast majority of this increase occurred over the last 5 years.

We have been getting closer to adding nearly 3,000 housing units added in SLC annually, across all types. If this stays consistent through the decade, we could see an increase of 30,000 to 50,000 people in SLC come 2030.

I think the next many years will be fun to watch as the City experiences some of its largest growth in it history.
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  #11049  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC14 View Post
So. I find those numbers a bit depressing. Salt Lake gained just over 16,000 people. We are the largest and premier city in Utah and really the only choice for "big city" living and yet Lehi, Herriman, South Jordan, St George, West Jordan etc. Each had more people choose to live in them than chose to live in Salt Lake City over the last decade.

I find it a bit disheartening that, for whatever reason, even after all the apartment construction that has happened, such an overwhelming number of people are still choosing to live in generic suburban and exurban areas.
Meh. In any normal city all of those municipalities would have been annexed into the boundaries decades ago. Then the numbers would look different. SLCs population is a trick of geographic specifics and lack of annexation in the 1960s and 1970s. The amount of new build in the core happening is WILD.
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  #11050  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 3:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boz View Post
I'd rather have a house and a yard. I don't want to live in a small apartment stacked with other people. I lived in apartments growing up and it sucks. Having a house and a yard, now that's something to aspire to.

I know that doesn't go over well on these boards, but I don't care.
I'd live in an apartment. But I also like to own things. Plus where else would I put my lathe? Or my welders? Or my garden? Or my trailer, my motorcycle, my drum set guitars and studio? Most importantly, how do I barbecue naked outside and not get arrested?
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  #11051  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 6:05 PM
felixg felixg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvland View Post
Meh. In any normal city all of those municipalities would have been annexed into the boundaries decades ago. Then the numbers would look different. SLCs population is a trick of geographic specifics and lack of annexation in the 1960s and 1970s. The amount of new build in the core happening is WILD.
I think about this all the time
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  #11052  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 6:14 PM
scottharding scottharding is offline
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Photo Update

255 State Street


300 South end of Broadway Apartments


The Exchange (now complete)


Liberty Sky




Convention Center Hotel


Hardison


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  #11053  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 6:33 PM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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Great photo update scottharding.

It's also worth noting that the residential development in the 2010s was primarily mid-rise residential, and much of it was only in the second half of the decade. We are only just getting to see high rise residential come online at a wide scale, 10+ years behind what many other mid-sized cities have seen. Liberty Sky, Astra, and Convexity should all be complete by the middle of the decade, and who knows what other high-rise residential we will see by 2030? I agree with Makid that the 2020s will see even greater growth.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the census tracts in the Avenues and the NIMBY east side neighborhoods where there has been almost no residential construction saw population declines as families age out of the homes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boz View Post
I'd rather have a house and a yard. I don't want to live in a small apartment stacked with other people. I lived in apartments growing up and it sucks. Having a house and a yard, now that's something to aspire to.

I know that doesn't go over well on these boards, but I don't care.
There's nothing wrong with that, but while many people still prefer that, most of the growth occurring in all inner-city areas is occurring in apartments. There are enough people that are okay with it to fuel huge growth in those cities.
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  #11054  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 7:17 PM
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Thanks Scott, Great photo update!!
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  #11055  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 11:03 PM
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I've said this in the past, but I'll repeat it because it's important:

Utah's growth has to continue to be a balance of birth/outsiders moving into the state. For a long time, in fact a significant amount of the growth over the 2000s, was tied to Utah's high birthrate. This creates a homogenous demographic and in Utah, that demographic almost certainly will have families and look for bigger homes to house those families - hence why the core cities of the metro (Ogden, Salt Lake and Provo) have seen slower growth. There just isn't as much opportunity for bigger homes, with yards, in Salt Lake City compared to Day Break. But if we can attract younger, non-LDS individuals, they're going to be more open to living in the city because politically it works for them and in overall family size, they can live in a house in SugarHouse or the Avenues (or a condo downtown) and not need to buy a 3,000 sq ft home in West Jordan to support the family.

The problem is that we're still developing huge pockets of the valley independent of one another. Day Break good in theory but it's still completely disconnected from South Jordan's major commercial areas.

Most of the development is going to be west of Bangerter and it still remains very similar to this:



I have no problem with suburbs but I do have a problem with this. These areas are still heavily reliant on cars.

We're still not integrating these subdivisions into any cohesive city like you used to get in the older cores before the automobile blew things up (to be fair, there are plenty of areas of Salt Lake that have this problem too).

But when you live in these clusters, they force you to drive.

Like, let's say you live in this neighborhood and want to walk to the Smith's Market. It would take you 50 or so minutes to do so, including crossing the Mountain View Corridor:



How many different retail centers do you think you'd find in a 50 minute walk from most of Salt Lake City? I could walk to the heart of SugarHouse from my house in 20 minutes. But because these areas are not connected, and have completely abandoned the grid for more winding roads, you get that.

To be fair, there are more suburban neighborhoods, typically the ones built in the 1970s, that didn't deviate too far from the grid - and those are fairly walkable when you discount the highways and larger roads that often divide neighborhoods and also house a great deal of retail clusters.

That's my biggest issue with the suburbs and while we have gotten better, on the whole, we're still not where I'd like us to be in terms of smarter development.
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  #11056  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2021, 11:56 PM
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Now that the exchange project has pretty much been completed, I wonder if Domain Properties will be ready to shit its focus over to the SouthWest Temple project. I think that project would be pretty great for that area.
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  #11057  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2021, 1:49 AM
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I love Daybreak. I wish they were the ones in charge of doing the silicon slopes/point of the mtn developments
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  #11058  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2021, 3:33 AM
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Contributing to the conversation about the census numbers, I saw this stat:

SLC added 13,000 people and about 12,000 housing units. Herriman added 34,000 people and 10,000 housing units. 1.08 units/person vs 3.4.
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  #11059  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2021, 8:35 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
Contributing to the conversation about the census numbers, I saw this stat:

SLC added 13,000 people and about 12,000 housing units. Herriman added 34,000 people and 10,000 housing units. 1.08 units/person vs 3.4.
Not surprising at all. Lots of single apartments being built in SLC, plus children aging out of homes and either moving out of the city, or moving within the city to an apartment. This also tracks heavily with my theory that families just aren't relocating to Salt Lake City.

The numbers for census tracts are actually available for the census at the following link, and I crunched some interesting numbers that I'll put in the next post.

https://mtgis-portal.geo.census.gov/...ed2b2fd7ff6eb7
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  #11060  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2021, 9:18 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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Easy reference map to spot census tracts that I mention:
https://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/dc1...C49035_001.pdf

Warning, probably boring post ahead.

I actually had 2010 population information for census tracts readily available for a school project that I did, so it was pretty easy to put those in a spreadsheet, add the 2020 census figures, and see population changes.

There are 54 census tracts that are more or less wholly within the borders of Salt Lake City. One of these is a west side tract that has just 16 people, so I threw that out, leaving 53. This doesn't count 2 other far west side census tracts which cross over into Magna and West Valley City, where I assume most or all of the population of those census tracts reside. Also, given the weird boundaries with Millcreek on the southeast side of the city, there are a few that are primarily in Millcreek but have small portions in Salt Lake City.

The 53 census tracts are actually 2 more than existed in 2010. When an area reaches a certain population (approximately 5,000-6,000, though it's not a set number) the Census Bureau splits them and just adds numbers to the end. In this case, the two that were split were Census Tract 1025 (into 1025.01 and 1025.02), which covers the western downtown area (between North Temple and 400 South, and I-15 and West Temple) and Census Tract 1014, which covers the University of Utah campus. Luckily, because they're split and not combined with neighboring census tracts, you can simply combine the 2020 census figures for both of them and directly compare them to 2010 numbers.

Out of the 51 census tracts from 2010, 31 of them gained population and 20 of them lost population. Of the 31 that gained, 11 of them grew more than 10%, and 6 grew more than 50%.

From what I can see, the ones that grew rapidly more or less aligns with what we would expect. By far the fastest growing census tract was Census Tract 1140, which covers the downtown core and the Granary District (more specifically, from I-15 to State Street, and 400 South to 900 South, but with a small part extending north to South Temple between West Temple and 200 East). This census tract grew from 1,501 to 4,344, a whopping 189.4% increase. With projects like Liberty Sky and Astra being in here, and continued rapid growth in the Granary District, I would expect this one to be split by 2030 and to be among the fastest growing again.

These are the 10 fastest-growing, if you want to reference them on the map above:
1) 1140 - 189.4% (CBD and Granary district)
2) 1001 - 95.4% (Hardware/west Marmalade)
3) 1021 - 63.2% (east Downtown; S Temple - 400 S, 200 E - 400 E)
4) 1141 - 55.1% (Sugarhouse core)
5) 1148 - 53.0% (Upper Avenues/Federal Heights; I can't really explain this one, anyone else know? Was there some rich person subdivision built that I don't know about?)
6) 1140 - 50.2% (west Downtown/Gateway)
7) 1016 - 41.0% (University of Utah)
8) 1029 - 28.2% (South Central 9th/Ballpark/south 300 West corridor)
9) 1019 - 24.3% (S Temple - 400 S, 400 E - 700 E)
10) 1003.06 - 19.4% (southwest Rose Park/west North Temple corridor)

In summary, the highest growing areas were concentrated around Downtown, along the 400 South corridor, and in Sugarhouse, which is exactly what you would expect. The huge increase right around downtown is especially encouraging, as almost all of those census tracts increased substantially in population.

The census tracts that lost population, surprisingly, were just as much on the west side as on the east. In fact, the far east tracts mostly increased a bit. The biggest drop was actually the census tract just south of the Capitol, which lost 13.4% of its population. Given the historic homes in the area that make development almost impossible, that's not too surprising. It's also a small tract, with only 2,562 people, which means it doesn't hurt downtown's overall population much.

Other than that, surprisingly nearly all of the west side census tracts lost population - 9 of the 11 west side tracts to be exact. Although I guess it shouldn't be that surprising, as those areas haven't seen much housing development at all. The only ones that grew were two along the North Temple corridor - 1003.06 and 1006. I do wonder, however, if some of those fears about low response rates among the Hispanic population ended up being true, and that there weren't major declines at all. I don't think we'll know for sure until further analysis of the results are done. If that does happen to be the case, then maybe were are over 200,000 after all (perhaps well over). I expect Salt Lake City to challenge the census figures.

Most of the others that lost population were in the central city area - near Liberty Park, and in northern and western Sugarhouse.

To sum up, out of the 20 census tracts that lost population:

- 9 are on the west side (1147, 1003.07, 1003.08, 1005, 1026, 1027.01, 1027.02, 1028.01, 1028.02)
- 9 approximately form a corridor from Liberty Park south into the Central City/west Sugarhouse area, and east through northern Sugarhouse (north of 2100 South) and up to Foothill Drive (1030, 1035, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1049, 1038, 1039, 1041)
- 2 are in the Capitol Hill/Marmalade area (1007, 1008)

The Lower Avenues and some other east side/central city areas had very very slow growth.

The fact that more than 1/3 of our census tracts lost population shows perhaps why growth still isn't where it should be. There's just not enough housing being built in certain neighborhoods. Luckily, there has been enough housing construction elsewhere to offset those losses.

Anyway, hopefully this long and boring post was interesting to some people. I was just curious myself to see if it tracked with the concensus. The surprising parts to me were that the east side mostly saw slow growth while the west side saw sometimes pretty sharp declines. The areas of rapid growth were not surprising, though it was good to see it backed up by real data to show that the apartments are making a difference. If I get some extra time, I'll try to make a map.

Last edited by bob rulz; Aug 16, 2021 at 9:56 AM.
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