Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Marvland]

All right. Here goes. I gotta say, of all of the booming tertiary markets, SLC is blessed with the most overrated, self congratulatory crop of local developers in the country. The garbage that they are foisting upon us on the medium density level is an affront to our city. None of the sort of cool large scale stuff is local except 95 S. State. Liberty Sky sucks. Every large monoblock "one plus four" melts my eyes. What a bunch of crappy development. The only good thing that can be said about this garbage is that it's consuming eyesore infill. They all think they are really really smart right now, which in this current phony interest rate environment isn't saying much. In the prices they are outbidding every other use class, out pricing every cultural use, and clogging up the permit system with whatever lame name new piece of crap they came up with last. Build a core or PT deck stick block, clad it in mediocre materials, pop a coupla squares out horizontally to make it "modern", put a fucking hat on it and tahdah! Ack. Barf. Yuck.

The pattern is so predictable. Lock up a parcel, close it into some bogus state TOD affordable housing fund, stun it with some okay renderings to get through design review, VE the living fuck out of it to get the construction financing to pencil, build it as cheaply as possible, rent it out for too much (NNN to residential tenants nowadays kids), refi into a HUD 221(d)(4) 40 year takeout, return a good chunk of capital to the team as "lended funds", then sell to a REIT or private fund that read how hot the Utah market is at a 4 cap.

GARBAGE guys. We need to hold our current crop of developers accountable for the crap we are seeing. I've said for years that the best development in SLC is on the small scale locally and the large scale by national/regional firms. They've blown out the construction market, made it impossible to build anything except dick colored garbage and they largely suck.

[Marvland]

Wow that felt good. Sorry guys. Someone had a very bad week with a bunch of no-vision yocal clowns.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

So they said they're "going" to bulldoze the building in late summer.

Does that mean it isn't going through a design review at all?

As a corner lot, they can build to 375' as of right. Of course they could go through design review and they could possibly get a quick turn around as it sounds like they are already working with the City.

Kensington Tower received their design review approval fairly quickly after their submission. Even 95 South State only took a few days if I recall.

The more the developer works with the City prior to their submission, the faster the process will go.

We will have to see what happens.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Wow that felt good. Sorry guys. Someone had a very bad week with a bunch of no-vision yocal clowns.

No worries Marvland. We have all been there and can definitely understand. I do hope that either a larger local developer will have vision or we continue to see more outside developers come to the area in the near term to inject some much needed variety and sanity to the market.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Excellent downtown photo update by BSL today. Love the new website design too!

https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/in-...despite-covid/

I'm loving all the infill!

[DMTower]

Perfectly stated.

Originally Posted by Marvland

All right. Here goes. I gotta say, of all of the booming tertiary markets, SLC is blessed with the most overrated, self congratulatory crop of local developers in the country. The garbage that they are foisting upon us on the medium density level is an affront to our city. None of the sort of cool large scale stuff is local except 95 S. State. Liberty Sky sucks. Every large monoblock "one plus four" melts my eyes. What a bunch of crappy development. The only good thing that can be said about this garbage is that it's consuming eyesore infill. They all think they are really really smart right now, which in this current phony interest rate environment isn't saying much. In the prices they are outbidding every other use class, out pricing every cultural use, and clogging up the permit system with whatever lame name new piece of crap they came up with last. Build a core or PT deck stick block, clad it in mediocre materials, pop a coupla squares out horizontally to make it "modern", put a fucking hat on it and tahdah! Ack. Barf. Yuck.

The pattern is so predictable. Lock up a parcel, close it into some bogus state TOD affordable housing fund, stun it with some okay renderings to get through design review, VE the living fuck out of it to get the construction financing to pencil, build it as cheaply as possible, rent it out for too much (NNN to residential tenants nowadays kids), refi into a HUD 221(d)(4) 40 year takeout, return a good chunk of capital to the team as "lended funds", then sell to a REIT or private fund that read how hot the Utah market is at a 4 cap.

GARBAGE guys. We need to hold our current crop of developers accountable for the crap we are seeing. I've said for years that the best development in SLC is on the small scale locally and the large scale by national/regional firms. They've blown out the construction market, made it impossible to build anything except dick colored garbage and they largely suck.

[meman]

Heavy equipment is working today at the Brinshore site on State Street

between 2nd and 3rd South. It looks like they are preparing for the foundation!!

[taboubak]

Originally Posted by meman

Heavy equipment is working today at the Brinshore site on State Street

between 2nd and 3rd South. It looks like they are preparing for the foundation!!

Wow, honestly kinda surprised this project is actually starting. Seemed like it would flail out.

[Atlas]

Excellent news. Let's hope it doesn't have the same fate as the last project at that site.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Marvland

All right. Here goes. I gotta say, of all of the booming tertiary markets, SLC is blessed with the most overrated, self congratulatory crop of local developers in the country. The garbage that they are foisting upon us on the medium density level is an affront to our city. None of the sort of cool large scale stuff is local except 95 S. State. Liberty Sky sucks. Every large monoblock "one plus four" melts my eyes. What a bunch of crappy development. The only good thing that can be said about this garbage is that it's consuming eyesore infill. They all think they are really really smart right now, which in this current phony interest rate environment isn't saying much. In the prices they are outbidding every other use class, out pricing every cultural use, and clogging up the permit system with whatever lame name new piece of crap they came up with last. Build a core or PT deck stick block, clad it in mediocre materials, pop a coupla squares out horizontally to make it "modern", put a fucking hat on it and tahdah! Ack. Barf. Yuck.

The pattern is so predictable. Lock up a parcel, close it into some bogus state TOD affordable housing fund, stun it with some okay renderings to get through design review, VE the living fuck out of it to get the construction financing to pencil, build it as cheaply as possible, rent it out for too much (NNN to residential tenants nowadays kids), refi into a HUD 221(d)(4) 40 year takeout, return a good chunk of capital to the team as "lended funds", then sell to a REIT or private fund that read how hot the Utah market is at a 4 cap.

GARBAGE guys. We need to hold our current crop of developers accountable for the crap we are seeing. I've said for years that the best development in SLC is on the small scale locally and the large scale by national/regional firms. They've blown out the construction market, made it impossible to build anything except dick colored garbage and they largely suck.

My biggest frustration is when incremental design changes occur after the project is approved and eventually it looks nothing like before. Case in point:





This is a horribly finished building. And I'm not talking about the mural. The mural in the drawing was meant as a placeholder (although it is way bigger on the finished building). But everything else? How does this happen?

Are other cities letting crap like this slide?

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by airhero

My biggest frustration is when incremental design changes occur after the project is approved and eventually it looks nothing like before. Case in point:





This is a horribly finished building. And I'm not talking about the mural. The mural in the drawing was meant as a placeholder (although it is way bigger on the finished building). But everything else? How does this happen?

Are other cities letting crap like this slide?

What annoys me the most about this project (beyond the lack of ground level engagement and failed design) is how this project treats TRAX. That side of the building you are showing faces TRAX, and what they are saying by cutting their design corners on this side alone is that people on TRAX don't matter to them. Essentially, TRAX is being treated by Salt Development as the 'back alley' while the auto dominated roads are what matters.

[Orlando]

Blame should also go to the city for letting this happen.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

What annoys me the most about this project (beyond the lack of ground level engagement and failed design) is how this project treats TRAX. That side of the building you are showing faces TRAX, and what they are saying by cutting their design corners on this side alone is that people on TRAX don't matter to them. Essentially, TRAX is being treated by Salt Development as the 'back alley' while the auto dominated roads are what matters.

There are plans for another complex in front along the skinny lot, so that should hide the ugly parking structure from TRAX and FrontRunner....eventually. That's probably why they got away with it, because they knew it would be covered eventually.

However, there was definitely a huge opportunity missed for some true transit-oriented mixed-use here. It's one of the biggest transit hubs in the valley, with TRAX, FrontRunner, and 3 bus routes (2 high-frequency) all converging here. I do like the Hardware development more than I dislike it, but it could've been truly great. As it is, it's just...above the SLC average.

[SLC PopPunk]

Tonight I noticed Murphy's, which is next to the Utah Theater and has been closed for a few months, was open. I went in and they are under a new owner and were doing a soft opening, with a grand opening planned for next week.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought the plans for the new tower included demolishing that building. Does a new owner taking over that space mean the Utah Theater isn't happening for awhile or is that building not part of the demo plans?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

Tonight I noticed Murphy's, which is next to the Utah Theater and has been closed for a few months, was open. I went in and they are under a new owner and were doing a soft opening, with a grand opening planned for next week.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought the plans for the new tower included demolishing that building. Does a new owner taking over that space mean the Utah Theater isn't happening for awhile or is that building not part of the demo plans?

My understanding is that the building is part of the Theater Tower plans. But as demolition and construction are still about a year out, I don't think it is bad that it has a new use at least in the short term.

The contract might have stated that it was a short term lease and the new management might have also gotten a discount for signing.

[ThePusherMan]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

Tonight I noticed Murphy's, which is next to the Utah Theater and has been closed for a few months, was open. I went in and they are under a new owner and were doing a soft opening, with a grand opening planned for next week.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought the plans for the new tower included demolishing that building. Does a new owner taking over that space mean the Utah Theater isn't happening for awhile or is that building not part of the demo plans?

The new owners signed a year to year lease which is about the dumbest thing imaginable knowing they bought Murphy’s for a good chunk of money but they aren’t very smart people to begin with.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

There are plans for another complex in front along the skinny lot, so that should hide the ugly parking structure from TRAX and FrontRunner....eventually. That's probably why they got away with it, because they knew it would be covered eventually.

However, there was definitely a huge opportunity missed for some true transit-oriented mixed-use here. It's one of the biggest transit hubs in the valley, with TRAX, FrontRunner, and 3 bus routes (2 high-frequency) all converging here. I do like the Hardware development more than I dislike it, but it could've been truly great. As it is, it's just...above the SLC average.

The skinny lot where Salt Lake Crossing will be built is a block north of the building I posted. There are currently two parking garages facing north temple station:

[Orlando]

I could be wrong here, but I think the main complaint from the others is that it looks like the developers changed the facade facing the station from previous designs. There's still good materials on the building, but maybe the final version was changed and approved with the city that is different than the rendering shown here. In Seattle, the city has a way to enforce an approved design called the Master Use Permit. Projects like this go through a design review process until it is approved by the design review board and city land-use planners. The design team then has to submit a final design package to the city, with all of the final elevations and renderings, called the Master Use Permit. If the developer deviates from what has been approved with this M.U.P. the city can force them to comply with the approved design or keep them from opening their building.

Also, SLC should require these developers to add ground floor retail in developments like this. Otherwise, this will not be a very vibrant community, and will lose out on an opportunity to make this an active pedestrian community. It's like the backside of the Gateway Mall all over again.

To be fair though, I love the density of this project, and the quality of the materials they've used is good.

[Ironweed]

[QUOTE=airhero;9154760]The skinny lot where Salt Lake Crossing will be built is a block north of the building I posted. There are currently two parking garages facing north temple station:

Does anyone have a crystal ball for what is to be done with the property just across the tracks from this location? (West) Is there any interest in this area? I know we have something coming to the block to the west.

I agree with Marv Land that the local developers are cheapskates. No question.

At the same time I am with the folks who like the infill.

As a financier myself, I understand the reluctance that some local builders have due to what was experienced in 2007-2009. The market is quite different today however.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by airhero

The skinny lot where Salt Lake Crossing will be built is a block north of the building I posted. There are currently two parking garages facing north temple station:

Ah my apologies. I should know better considering I live in that area now and frequently either walk across the North Temple viaduct or use that TRAX station. That building is a massive waste, yes, and the city never should have let them get away with that facade.

At the very least, hopefully Salt Lake Crossing mitigates some of that visual damage. I do like the renderings of it a lot.