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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2019, 6:43 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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What I don't get is why Andlauer would put so much money (potentially tens of millions of dollars) in himself. I can't claim to know the revenue of an OHL team, but it can't be that high and nowhere near justifying putting in $20 million of your own money in.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2019, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by drpgq View Post
What I don't get is why Andlauer would put so much money (potentially tens of millions of dollars) in himself. I can't claim to know the revenue of an OHL team, but it can't be that high and nowhere near justifying putting in $20 million of your own money in.
maybe he is part of the operating group which gets to keep revenues from concerts, shows etc. ? May sweeten the pot.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2019, 10:22 PM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
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maybe he is part of the operating group which gets to keep revenues from concerts, shows etc. ? May sweeten the pot.
Yes, for sure, if he has an equity stake in the building he will have a say in operations and a share of revenue. Maybe it's a longer play in hopes of growing the team and selling it off. Rumours have gone around in recent years of various people trying to buy the London Knights, and the price mentioned has been in the $15-20 million range. No idea how true those reports are. But I can only imagine what that number would be if it also came with a third or a quarter share in Budweiser Gardens.
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 4:07 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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Yes, for sure, if he has an equity stake in the building he will have a say in operations and a share of revenue. Maybe it's a longer play in hopes of growing the team and selling it off. Rumours have gone around in recent years of various people trying to buy the London Knights, and the price mentioned has been in the $15-20 million range. No idea how true those reports are. But I can only imagine what that number would be if it also came with a third or a quarter share in Budweiser Gardens.
The London Knights are a way more successful and storied OHL franchise than the Bulldogs are though.
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 7:47 PM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
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The London Knights are a way more successful and storied OHL franchise than the Bulldogs are though.
Definitely, but they also sucked huge when the Hunters bought them. OHL team values have gone up a lot the last while. If Andlauer can make the Bulldogs an perennial contender that gets solid support from Hamilton hockey fans, and he also owns a stake in the arena, the team will be worth quite a bit more than what he paid.
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  #26  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 12:37 AM
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Hamilton's not an OHL town. It's not an NHL town either. The AHL kind of worked but nobody builds arenas for that league so...
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  #27  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 1:06 AM
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Hamilton wasn't a soccer town either, and look at us now.
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  #28  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Hamilton's not an OHL town. It's not an NHL town either. The AHL kind of worked but nobody builds arenas for that league so...
Hamilton's definitely an NHL town - plenty of people watch on TV and go to Leafs, Red Wings and Sabres games. We just will never get a team.
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  #29  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 11:00 AM
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Hamilton Bulldogs owner skeptical of new arena plan
(Hamilton Spectator, Andrew Dreschel, Sept 9 2019)

City council better get cracking if it wants the Hamilton Bulldogs aboard as the anchor tenant for a new 10,000-seat arena downtown.

Because team owner Michael Andlauer isn't prepared to wait the four or five years the proposed project is expected to take.

Andlauer says if the city can't get a new arena up and running before that, he'll be forced to look at moving his OHL hockey team elsewhere.

"I don't want to be put in that position, but I think timing is going to create that."

City council is expected Wednesday to approve creating a steering committee to choose a preferred downtown site and seek private sector partners for the $130-million facility.

But Andlauer is skeptical the committee will move with anything like the kind of speed he needs. He predicts it'll get snagged by location, budget and possibly expropriation debates.

He says if the city is really serious, the task force should be able to put together a hard proposal in 60 days. If that happened, he'd be all ears.

"If it's a definite timeline and there's a plan, a road map we can execute, then I'm open to it. But to me there's a lot of unanswered questions."

… There's no question the city is in danger of losing that base unless it seriously picks up the pace. Andlauer has pitched building a modern new arena to improve his team's marketing potential and fan experience for four years. He says he's running out of road.

His preferred location remains Lime Ridge Mall on Upper Wentworth Street. He and mall owner Cadillac Fairview have presented council with their own public-private partnership proposal. Details are confidential, but Andlauer says he'll sink millions of his own money into the project.

Andlauer says the Lime Ridge Mall plan, which he argues is a better deal for taxpayers and a more efficient project, would see an arena built and operational by March 2022. That's potentially a three-year difference to the downtown proposal. And timelines are crucial to his decision to stay in Hamilton or graze other pastures such as Burlington.

Mountain Couns. Esther Pauls and Terry Whitehead are expected to put forward a motion to study the Lime Ridge Mall proposal at Wednesday's council meeting.

However, because council initially voted to only study downtown, procedurally the motion will be treated as a reconsideration vote, which requires a two-thirds majority to pass. Scuttlebutt suggests that, barring a mass change of heart, it has scant hope of success.


Read it in full here.
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  #30  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 2:20 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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I would be telling the Bulldogs owner to build his own arena if he doesn't like the process the city must go through. It's a junior hockey team not the NHL, he has no leverage to blackmail the city.
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  #31  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ChildishGavino View Post
Hamilton wasn't a soccer town either, and look at us now.
Hamilton has always been a soccer town. We have had leagues in this city for over 100 years. The Spectator Cup is the oldest championship competition in the country. I think it's actually older than the World Cup.
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  #32  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Hamilton's not an OHL town. It's not an NHL town either. The AHL kind of worked but nobody builds arenas for that league so...
There are actually a few built for AHL teams(or their previous league ie. ECHL, CHL) as the primary tenant right at opening.

Place Bell in MTL
Giant Centre in Hershey
Van Andel Centre in Grand Rapids
Webster Bank Areba in Bridgeport
PPL Center in Leigh Valley
Blue Cross Arena in Rochester
H-E-B Center in Cedar Park
Budweiser Center in Colorado

There are probably a few more which I'm missing but you get the idea.
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  #33  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 1:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
Hamilton's definitely an NHL town - plenty of people watch on TV and go to Leafs, Red Wings and Sabres games. We just will never get a team.
I'm open to that possibility but, yes, a Hamilton team would be of zero net benefit to the League. In fact, it would cause more problems than it would solve...
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  #34  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 1:49 AM
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Confidential proposal asks Hamilton to build hockey arena and parking garage at Lime Ridge Mall
The unsolicited proposal obtained by The Spectator says the Hamilton Bulldogs OHL team is willing to “offset” taxpayer construction costs — but the dollar amounts remain a mystery.

The Hamilton Bulldogs are asking the city to build a new arena and parking garage worth tens of millions of dollars at Lime Ridge Mall, according to a confidential proposal obtained by the Spectator.

But it remains unclear exactly how much the project would cost in total — or how much of the tab taxpayers would be on the hook to cover.

Under the plan, the OHL hockey team commits to "partially offset" the cost of construction for a 6,000-seat arena and 1,800-spot, three-storey parking facility. The Bulldogs would also handle arena maintenance.

No construction costs are included in proposal documents viewed by The Spectator and team owner Michael Andlauer declined through a spokesperson Monday to talk about how much he is willing to pay. Past estimates floated for a Mountain arena have been around $60 million.

Mall owner Cadillac Fairview would lease three acres attached to the former Sears store to taxpayers for $1-a-year and handle maintenance of the garage, which would provide free parking. The proposal also leaves open the prospect for a hotel.

The city parking studies suggest the cost of an above-ground parking structure can range from $22,000 to $35,000 per space. That would suggest a garage cost between $40 million and $63 million.

The unsolicited proposal, made privately to the city last month, represents a wild-card alternative available to city councillors as they debate whether to move ahead with an ambitious public-private redevelopment of aging downtown entertainment facilities.

A city consultant has recommended seeking private partners to help build and run a new $130-million sports complex downtown. A new convention centre would replace the FirstOntario Centre.

Private sector dollars — and maybe government grants, if the city applies to host the 2030 Commonwealth Games — would be expected to cut the taxpayer contribution.

The consultant also argued the city should spend its millions on a new facility rather than on repairs to a 34-year-old building that is leaking antifreeze and needs a new roof among $27 million in looming repairs.

But a successful, money-making arena hinges on having a willing "anchor tenant," that same consultant warned.

Right now, the Bulldogs are the anchor tenant in the existing FirstOntario Centre, but have only one year remaining on the lease for the building at York Boulevard and Bay Street.

The Spectator reached out to Cadillac Fairview for comment but did not hear back Monday.

But the owner of the city's largest mall — and biggest taxpayer — submitted planning documents to the city in 2018 that envisioned a radical redevelopment of the Upper Wentworth Street property that included new retail, office space, a parking garage and five new restaurants.

That application remains "on hold," according to planning staff.

While Andlauer would not comment on cost-sharing Monday, in the past the team owner has suggested he would make a "substantial" contribution — possibly up to half the cost — toward a Mountain arena built by the city.

The formal proposal to the city suggests building an arena with between 6,000 and 7,500 seats. It also sets an expected construction start date of March 2020 and an opening day exactly two years later.

Andlauer recently told the Spectator he is still willing to consider the city's downtown plans — if council moves fast enough.

A consultant estimate of five years to open a new downtown building is too long to wait, he said.

Mountain Coun. Esther Pauls is expected to try to convince her council colleagues to vote in favour of studying the unsolicited arena proposal Wednesday.

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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 3:19 AM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
No idea how true those reports are. But I can only imagine what that number would be if it also came with a third or a quarter share in Budweiser Gardens.
Budweiser Gardens is owned by the city, not the Hunters or the arena management group.
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  #36  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 3:45 AM
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There's nothing like a new arena with a backdrop of a shopping mall.
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 3:52 AM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
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Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
Budweiser Gardens is owned by the city, not the Hunters or the arena management group.
I didn't say otherwise. I was speculating on OHL team value and how much more the Knights would be worth if the Hunters owned a share in the arena (and of course, sold that share with the team) as a comparison to why Andlauer would consider throwing a big chunk of money into owning a share of a new Hamilton arena.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:02 AM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
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There's nothing like a new arena with a backdrop of a shopping mall.
That was London for decades, and I think the Hartford Civic Centre is or was part of a mall as well lol.

Anyway, unless he's going to build it all himself, or with CF's help, I don't think the city should be backing any of this project. He's only looking at what's best for his team, and 6000 or so is right sized for OHL. But it's way too small for the city. 10,000 will still bring decent concerts and ice shows to Hamilton, 6,000 won't nearly as much. Hate to talk London again, but the Hunters wanted smaller and the city went with larger and it paid off. Being downtown was also very beneficial for spurring growth down there.
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 4:46 AM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
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Canadian Parking Association:

Quote:
In the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), a surface parking space would likely cost approximately $15,000 per space to build including land costs. An above ground parking garage would likely cost approximately $35,000 per space while underground parking would be about $50,000 per space. The general trend is towards less surface parking and more garage parking as land becomes scarce and hospitals continue to expand into the surface lots. This means the cost of providing parking is likely to increase significantly into the future.
Formulas vary but parking garages are estimated at $35K-$50K per spot. An example of this would be the Oakville GO parkade, which has 1000 spaces and cost $41m in 2012 ($46m in 2019).

Using that yardstick, a 1,800-vehicle capacity garage alone would cost $70m-$80m to build.
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Last edited by thistleclub; Sep 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM.
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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:41 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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The city paying millions for a new parking garage for CF seems ridiculous. I think from the report the city subsidizes First for $1.2 million a year. Fixing First and continuing that seems like a better deal.
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