Should we divide Canada Day into two separate events?

[Acajack]

Seems like the right place for this.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jon...adian-identity

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I always wanted a more melting pot of an approach to Indigenous culture in Canada, where local indigenous languages and traditions are taught in school to all, but sadly that ship has sailed, now the purity mob would just scream “cultural appropriation” and some other buzz word nonsense.

So fuck it these days. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Some might complain. But I don't think they'd get very far as long as our First Nations were onboard.

I do think they really lack a cultural showcase in Canada. Heck, I'm still amazed that in my lifetime, I went from kids making fun of my lunchbox at school to the same stuff now being sold as a pre-made ethnic meal at Loblaws. Yet, we don't really have the same exposure to First Nations culture. And I, for one, would love to have that.

It won't be enough. But one day a year to put them front and centre would be a great start.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Seems like the right place for this.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jon...adian-identity

Somebody needs to write an article about the right's obsession with exaggerating cancel culture. The constant Chicken Little routine is exhausting.

I have no clue what he's talking about. Nothing has changed about Canada Day for the vast, vast majority of Canadians.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

The very foundation of Canada is illegitimate - based on broken treaties and stolen land. I do not see what exactly there is to celebrate. Your family in Saskatchewan was actively engaging in settler colonialism and benefiting from the structures of racism and dispossession used against Indigenous groups in the area. While they may have been nice people who worked hard and had struggles, there is no denying that their very presence in Saskatchewan was due to injustice. There are obviously nuances to these situations - like I said it can be true that your family was full of good, hard-working people while also them benefiting from harm done to Indigenous peoples. But at the same time, you can see how 'celebrating' this can be a bit tone deaf to those who've been dispossessed.



Is it really that "endless"? This stuff has only been part of mainstream discourse for a very short period, far shorter than the cycles of intergenerational trauma and poverty faced by Indigenous peoples. Complaining about being confronted with these issues because it's basically annoying is both insensitive and indicative of your privilege. If at the end of the day you can go back to a lifestyle that is relatively comfortable and built on the backs of your ancestors who engaged in the process of Canada stealing land and just find this all a bit "nauseating" to hear about dead children, boil water advisories, destruction of old growth forests on unceded land, then I'm sorry I don't care. The issues are far greater than worrying about your feelings on the matter.

This doesn't even get into the injustices faced by other racialized folks, poor people, members of the queer community, etc.

However, I do know that SSP members and I don't really get along when it comes to these sorts of things so rest assured I will refrain from the conversation going forward. I just wanted to chime in with a different perspective.

OK, so if not (an admittedly majorly tweaked version of) the current Canada,
then what?

Your position just sounds like an extreme post-national future.

Except, that it's human nature for people to grow collective identities and take pride in them.

And whatever we'd replace the "Canadian" one with won't necessarily be better than the one that was jettisoned.

And groups who were historically hard-done-by aren't necessarily better overlords (for lack of a better term) once the tables turn.

The forebears of today's Québécois were generally fucked over by the British and Canada for a long time, including within living memory.

It didn't take long for them to become cocky buggers once they turned the corner.

[esquire]

The idea of a national guilt day the day after our national holiday would be the most Canadian thing ever.

I much prefer the idea of having Indigenous Peoples Day as a standalone holiday with a character of its own, as opposed to creating little more than a counterpoint to Canada Day.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Somebody needs to write an article about the right's obsession with exaggerating cancel culture. The constant Chicken Little routine is exhausting.

I have no clue what he's talking about. Nothing has changed about Canada Day for the vast, vast majority of Canadians.

The idea that people that hold opposite views to Jonathan Kay's don't have a voice or outlets in Canada is patently absurd. It's not his fault if they choose to use them ineffectively.

[jonny24]

For me, Canada Day is just a nice, summer, hey this place is pretty cool! kinda day. I might go watch the parade in Port Dover, then have some pints on a patio, then watch and/or light some fireworks.

The point is, I'm not thinking too deeply about anything.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I have no clue what he's talking about. Nothing has changed about Canada Day for the vast, vast majority of Canadians.

Nothing has changed for the vast majority of Canadians... but it will. It takes some time for those sentiments to trickle down from Thought Leaders to the masses. Before long, the university professors chastising the oppressive colonial state on Twitter becomes cancelled Canada Day celebrations. First in Victoria, then eventually in Edmonton, Sudbury, and so on.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

Nothing has changed for the vast majority of Canadians... but it will. It takes some time for those sentiments to trickle down from Thought Leaders to the masses. Before long, the university professors chastising the oppressive colonial state on Twitter becomes cancelled Canada Day celebrations. First in Victoria, then eventually in Edmonton, Sudbury, and so on.

Sorry. Not seeing it. A few media outlets might give them air time but the vast majority of the public doesn't care. And you can bet there will be a backlash against any politician that turns Canada Day into a national funeral.

Also, Twitter isn't real life. And I'm getting sick of pundits screaming that the end of the nation is here because of what they read on Twitter. Canada is not remotely close to as fragile as these Snowflakes think it is.

Somehow though, I suspect the fearmongering works out nicely for those who want to avoid any and all discussion on the topic at all. "They are coming for your beer and your weiner," is a great way to blunt any discussion. Seems to the that is at least part of the agenda of elites like Jonathan Kay (and yes he is exactly what he bemoans). Incidentally, shit like this is exactly why I think it's best to just elevate Indigenous People's Day, so that nobody has an excuse to shut down discussion.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Razor

Well said..Kudos for having the Kahunas to outline what I've also felt, but never did especially given the disturbing current events. Indigenous people also STOLE land, committed genocide, and also took slaves even through the age of discovery. They just did it amongst enemy tribes, as well as with settlers, albeit on a smaller scale. It was a really brutal time for the world all around. Hurons are a good example of a nation that was slaughtered by other First Nations like the Iroquois. Not taking away the atrocities committed by Europeans, but First Nations' hands aren't clean either. They all just faced a new common European enemy after fighting and committing atrocities against each other for centuries.

I don't want to join a #BothSides distraction, if that's what this is (meaning, if it's intended to tell Indigenous people in Canada to sit down and shut up, you did bad things too so we wash our hands of any responsibility in helping address the social issues associated with generational trauma), but this issue came up very significantly here just a few weeks ago.

Red Indian Lake in Central Newfoundland was renamed a Mi'kmaq word - or rather, was going to be. The announcement was made, government I'm sure fully expected widespread support and kudos given they consulted Indigenous groups.

There was instant outrage - some of course of the #NoNewFixOld variety, but a lot from people who were simply confused why a lake associated with our destroyed Beothuk people was being given a Mi'kmaq name. This led to widespread public discourse of a few facts here that, while certainly not secret, aren't often explicitly expressed:

- Mi'kmaq arrived in Newfoundland from the Maritimes long after white settlers.
- Initially, they were brought here explicitly to help hunt Beothuk.
- Given the Mi'kmaq people in the Maritimes and those who were brought here largely adopted the lifestyles and world view of white settlers, they continued to be brought here to displace/replace Beothuk, long after the active hunting was over.

Suffice it to say they've gone back to the drawing board and the lake will be getting a different name. We do know just enough about the Beothuk language to choose something appropriate, but I suspect it'll just end up Lake Beothuk.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK, so if not (an admittedly majorly tweaked version of) the current Canada,
then what?

Your position just sounds like an extreme post-national future.

Except, that it's human nature for people to grow collective identities and take pride in them.

And whatever we'd replace the "Canadian" one with won't necessarily be better than the one that was jettisoned.

And groups who were historically hard-done-by aren't necessarily better overlords (for lack of a better term) once the tables turn.

The forebears of today's Québécois were generally fucked over by the British and Canada for a long time, including within living memory.

It didn't take long for them to become cocky buggers once they turned the corner.

That’s my issue with this thinking is, what is the end game? Or will there always be enough injustice to justify always being in a continual state or anger and guilt? To me that is not a healthy base to have.

Going back to the Japanese example, yes they committed atrocities and were also on the receiving end of atrocities. The Kawai culture of modern Japan isn’t a “cover” for their misdeeds of the past or internal inequality today, instead it is just people having fun and enjoying their lives. After WW2 Japan could have taken the approach of continuing to be angry and dwelling on the past, which is the tactic of the Middle Wast, but luckily they largely didn’t and were able to progress to a peaceful state with a high standard of living.

And that’s what I fear all this excessive negativity and nihilism and victim culture is going to lead us, into a more divided and angry place that will ironically lower the standard of living and safety for all, majority and minorities.

Yes, Canada can still improve, and we had been doing so over the last 100 years very steadily under a more inclusive and positive approach, but the negative shift over the last decade is very troubling.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Sorry. Not seeing it. A few media outlets might give them air time but the vast majority of the public doesn't care. And you can bet there will be a backlash against any politician that turns Canada Day into a national funeral.

Also, Twitter isn't real life. And I'm getting sick of pundits screaming that the end of the nation is here because of what they read on Twitter. Canada is not remotely close to as fragile as these Snowflakes think it is.

I might be more inclined to believe you if we didn't see a significant effect on Canada 150 celebrations and the impact we're seeing now on Canada Day celebrations starting with Victoria.

Anyway, I'm not saying we shouldn't take a critical stance regarding Canadian history. The point is not to whitewash it all. But I can't get behind a plan to diminish one of the only days where we celebrate the country and the good things it represents.

[kool maudit]

It is beyond argument that all New World countries are built on processes, ideas and events that are anathema to their current ways of being. It all really did happen. The pre-contact civilizations of the Americas were near-entirely destroyed by the architects of Canada and other countries like it.

It is also beyond argument that there is next to no public appetite for festivals of sombre moral reckoning, particularly those that might take the place of days previously reserved for fun things like beer and music and going to the park.

Even the wretched Germans, alive under the order established around their crushing defeat, flock in greater numbers to Görlitzer Park than to the Holocaust monument.

"Moral reckoning" is overrated. Dispersing titles, deeds, land-control and public monies to the First Nations in such a way as to allow their greater flourishing is underrated.

Wrongs are righted or accounted for by bold and happy people of action with their eyes on better futures. Not... fucking writers with their stark awarenesses and heavy hearts.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That’s my issue with this thinking is, what is the end game? Or will there always be enough injustice to justify always being in a continual state or anger and guilt? To me that is not a healthy base to have.

Well, an oft repeated mantra of the SJWs whenever they score a victory is that "there is always much more work to do"...............

They will never be satisfied. The oppressors should always feel guilty. There can never be enough reparations..............

[kool maudit]

Would be great to see a bold leader, say, seize the Hemlo mine from Barrick and deed it to the Fort William First Nation. Much better than watery Toronto thoughts while Barrick remains as-is.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Would be great to see a bold leader, say, seize the Hemlo mine from Barrick and deed it to the Fort William First Nation. Much better than watery Toronto thoughts while Barrick remains as-is.

Does Canada have an Evo Morales waiting in the wings?

[kool maudit]

It is just astonishing, even when you accept the general post-colonial argument, how much of the necessary work seems to have to do with feelings and personal moral reflections.

This is a form of privatization.

Move materials.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Wrongs are righted or accounted for by bold and happy people of action with their eyes on better futures. Not... fucking writers with their stark awarenesses and heavy hearts.

Well said.

Yes, we have to accept the past. We bear responsibility for the things we did. We can't undo history.

We can change the future. Make it better for tomorrow. However, guilt trips to an extreme degree don't accomplish anything productive. Self-flagellation by Germans for WWII didn't generate the just and successful Germany of today.

The spirit of the modern day is very much focused on blame and guilt, not productive action. Maybe we should change that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That’s my issue with this thinking is, what is the end game? Or will there always be enough injustice to justify always being in a continual state or anger and guilt? To me that is not a healthy base to have.

Going back to the Japanese example, yes they committed atrocities and were also on the receiving end of atrocities. The Kawai culture of modern Japan isn’t a “cover” for their misdeeds of the past or internal inequality today, instead it is just people having fun and enjoying their lives. After WW2 Japan could have taken the approach of continuing to be angry and dwelling on the past, which is the tactic of the Middle Wast, but luckily they largely didn’t and were able to progress to a peaceful state with a high standard of living.

And that’s what I fear all this excessive negativity and nihilism and victim culture is going to lead us, into a more divided and angry place that will ironically lower the standard of living and safety for all, majority and minorities.

Yes, Canada can still improve, and we had been doing so over the last 100 years very steadily under a more inclusive and positive approach, but the negative shift over the last decade is very troubling.

I think regardless of the post-national idealism of some, power-laden group identities will always exist within the landmass currently known as Canada.

Acknowledging that, I think people need to consider what is the most desirable scenario among all of those before us. (A whole bunch of smaller ones born out of historic or contemporary tensions, or some variation on the status quo.)

Like many I also have some issues with "Canada" both past and present but in all honesty the 21st century incarnation is a fairly benign, well-intentioned, if somewhat bumbling and sclerotic state entity.

The human group identity it has spawned, while occasionally sanctimonious and also milquetoast IMO, also tends to be pretty user-friendly, loose and, sure, benign.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

We've also renamed Discovery Day (June 24, formerly our national day) temporarily to June Holiday. The new name will be announced soon. I suspect we'll follow Canada's lead and choose simply Newfoundland and Labrador Day. It's the implication the place was undiscovered that was the issue with the previous name among our Indigenous groups, not so much the commemoration of the event itself.

Wait, you Newfies are "fixing the problem with the holiday name implying that the land was previously undiscovered" ... by renaming it New Found Land Day?!?!? Please tell me you're joking! That's in the "you can't make this up" category!