VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It is not feasible for VIA Rail to run trains on every piece of track in Canada, so we need to prioritize.

I have said this before, but there is a strong argument to create a rail corridor in Alberta. Unfortunately with the Alberta government agreeing to support the construction of a hyperloop between Calgary and Edmonton (please discuss that project in the Hyperloops in Canada thread, and if you want my opinion on it, see this post). As a result, I don't see any government putting any money into conventional rail in Alberta until that project runs its course.

Outside of Alberta and the Eastern Corridor, the largest city without rail service is Victoria (pop. 367,770). There are talks about bringing back the E&N, but we will have to see where that goes as the track needs significant repair.

IMHO, the rail project outside of the either Alberta or the Eastern Corridor that has the most merit, is upgrading/relocating the BNSF track to Vancouver used by Amtrak Cascades. That is going to be a tough sell though, because both Amtrak and BNSF are American railroads, so it is harder to justify to a Canadian government. It also isn't VIA Rail, so is out of scope for this thread. The rail bridge over the Fraser River also needs to be replaced. It is also used by VIA, so it might easier to swallow; however, finding a good solution won't be easy because of the elevation and river traffic.

There is talk of a Calgary - Banff line. There is a forum on Winnipeg - Brandon service. If only there was a common rail line that could cover these and more.....

A hyperloop is not going to happen in Canada. They may have a demonstration, but one of any real distance won't happen here till it is proven elsewhere.

Just imagine if Canada Post decided that it is not profitable to deliver mail. Both are Crown Corporations. Both have legislated duties. Both are subsidized.

[milomilo]

I hate to be the one to break this, but the Winnipeg - Brandon rail thread is a joke thread to mock the endless threads about unjustified rail services.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I hate to be the one to break this, but the Winnipeg - Brandon rail thread is a joke thread to mock the endless threads about unjustified rail services.

I thought so too. However, watching from the sidelines, some seem very serious.

[swimmer_spe]

https://media.viarail.ca/en/press-re...western-canada

Via is returning some Canadian service. This is a good start. I am guessing coming to Toronto isn't going to happen as anyone passing through MB would still need to self isolate.

Via already has on it's schedule a Vancouver-Edmonton train. Maybe having the Canadian in 3 sections might be better for it.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

https://media.viarail.ca/en/press-re...western-canada

Via is returning some Canadian service. This is a good start. I am guessing coming to Toronto isn't going to happen as anyone passing through MB would still need to self isolate.

Via already has on it's schedule a Vancouver-Edmonton train. Maybe having the Canadian in 3 sections might be better for it.

Unless something has changed in the past couple weeks, travellers passing through Manitoba do not need to self-isolate when arriving in Manitoba.

I passed through Manitoba in July when I moved from Ontario to BC and the Manitoba government confirmed to me that self-isolation was not required for travellers passing through. CBC also has mentioned this.

My guess is that the decision to have a Vancouver-Winnipeg route was an economic decision based on projected demand. I think it’s a fantastic idea, especially with Greyhound having pulled out of the west in 2018.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Unless something has changed in the past couple weeks, travellers passing through Manitoba do not need to self-isolate when arriving in Manitoba.

I passed through Manitoba in July when I moved from Ontario to BC and the Manitoba government confirmed to me that self-isolation was not required for travellers passing through. CBC also has mentioned this.

My guess is that the decision to have a Vancouver-Winnipeg route was an economic decision based on projected demand. I think it’s a fantastic idea, especially with Greyhound having pulled out of the west in 2018.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/covid19/protection/soe.html

In general, anyone arriving in Manitoba is required to self-isolate for 14-days upon arrival to reduce the spread of COVID-19. However, there are exceptions to this requirement specified in the order.

In particular, Manitoba residents who have travelled to "western Canada* or "northwestern Ontario** are exempt from the self-isolation requirements when they return to Manitoba if they have not travelled outside of western Canada or northwestern Ontario and are not displaying any symptoms of COVID-19. Residents of western Canada or northwestern Ontario are also exempt, if they have not travelled to another country or any part of Canada outside of western Canada or northwestern Ontario in the 14-day period immediately before entering or arriving in Manitoba and are not displaying any symptoms of COVID-19.

Basically, anyone who is from East of Terrace Bay needs to self isolate, unless they pass through and do not interact with locals.

I feel this could be a prelude to more western Via rail services.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Via already has on it's schedule a Vancouver-Edmonton train. Maybe having the Canadian in 3 sections might be better for it.

Before COVID they had 1 Vancouver-Edmonton train and 2 Vancouver-Toronto trains. I expect that they are resuming the same service except terminating in Winnipeg rather than Toronto.

As for having the Canadian in 3 sections, it would likely help with reliability, but given that (in normal times) the vast majority of people using it are tourists, doing this could hurt business. If you force them to get off the train and take a hotel, many would use that as incentive to terminate their trip there and fly home from Edmonton when they otherwise would have taken the train all the way to Toronto.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Unless something has changed in the past couple weeks, travellers passing through Manitoba do not need to self-isolate when arriving in Manitoba.

I passed through Manitoba in July when I moved from Ontario to BC and the Manitoba government confirmed to me that self-isolation was not required for travellers passing through. CBC also has mentioned this.

The difference is the train station is downtown and with a 2 hour scheduled stop in Winnipeg, there would be a strong temptation to get off the train and walk around downtown (I did that when I took the Canadian years ago). Doing that from the airport is more difficult and less likely.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

My guess is that the decision to have a Vancouver-Winnipeg route was an economic decision based on projected demand. I think it’s a fantastic idea, especially with Greyhound having pulled out of the west in 2018.

I highly doubt if it was economic (without foreign tourists VIA will be loosing money big time). I suspect it is more phycological; making people think things are getting back to normal.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I feel this could be a prelude to more western Via rail services.

From what I gather the Winnipeg-Churchill train is still operating normally and the Prince Rupert-Prince George-Jasper train has been running 1 train a week since July 5 (down from 3 trains a week). It will probably be a while before those get back to normal.

What does surprise me is that VIA isn't running the Canadian in Northern Ontario. There are many isolated communities along the line that rely on the train as their only mode of transportation. Granted, its length would make it very expensive to operate even a subset of the route.

[esquire]

^ VIA is running the train to Churchill but without sleeping car accommodations or dining car service. They're still including the sleeping car on the train so that crews have somewhere to sleep.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Before COVID they had 1 Vancouver-Edmonton train and 2 Vancouver-Toronto trains. I expect that they are resuming the same service except terminating in Winnipeg rather than Toronto.

As for having the Canadian in 3 sections, it would likely help with reliability, but given that (in normal times) the vast majority of people using it are tourists, doing this could hurt business. If you force them to get off the train and take a hotel, many would use that as incentive to terminate their trip there and fly home from Edmonton when they otherwise would have taken the train all the way to Toronto.

Maybe 1 thru train a week and the rest are cut up at Edmonton and Winnipeg. I know if I were a tourist, a thru train might be best. However, the most scenic parts are between Edmonton and Vancouver. Mind you, if we are really going to talk about a tourist journey, going the entire way from Vancouver-Halifax would be one. That is 3 trains, and 2 nights in a hotel.

Originally Posted by roger1818

I highly doubt if it was economic (without foreign tourists VIA will be loosing money big time). I suspect it is more phycological; making people think things are getting back to normal.

This goes back to how do we make the Canadian need less of a subsidy.

Originally Posted by roger1818

What does surprise me is that VIA isn't running the Canadian in Northern Ontario. There are many isolated communities along the line that rely on the train as their only mode of transportation. Granted, its length would make it very expensive to operate even a subset of the route.

This goes back to the whole issue of self isolating. If the Canadian went to Thunder Bay, then, maybe it could work. It's current route would mean anyone East of Longlac would need to either get off before the ON border or be subject to self isolation.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Maybe 1 thru train a week and the rest are cut up at Edmonton and Winnipeg.

If you did that, you would probably need to double or triple the length of the through train and the "cut up" trains would be significantly shorter than they are currently.

I know if I were a tourist, a thru train might be best. However, the most scenic parts are between Edmonton and Vancouver.

Yes. That is why VIA adds extra cars for the Vancouver-Edmonton portion of the trip and it is also why it isn't that big a deal that they had to shorten one of the trains to only do the Edmonton-Vancouver leg due to ongoing infrastructure works.

Mind you, if we are really going to talk about a tourist journey, going the entire way from Vancouver-Halifax would be one. That is 3 trains, and 2 nights in a hotel.

That could be one reason why few take the train from coast to coast.

This goes back to how do we make the Canadian need less of a subsidy.

Easy. Bring back the tourists.

This goes back to the whole issue of self isolating. If the Canadian went to Thunder Bay, then, maybe it could work.

But those isolated communities are along CN's ROW not CP's ROW and CN's ROW doesn't go to Thunder Bay, so I don't see how that would help at all.

It's current route would mean anyone East of Longlac would need to either get off before the ON border or be subject to self isolation.

Actually both Longlac and Nakina are east of Terrace Bay and thus would not considered part of northwestern Ontario by the Order.

They could certainly have a temporary weekly train from Winnipeg to Sioux Lookout as the entire service would be within Manitoba/northwestern Ontario. A separate train would be needed for service east of Sioux Lookout though.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Unless something has changed in the past couple weeks, travellers passing through Manitoba do not need to self-isolate when arriving in Manitoba.

I passed through Manitoba in July when I moved from Ontario to BC and the Manitoba government confirmed to me that self-isolation was not required for travellers passing through. CBC also has mentioned this.

My guess is that the decision to have a Vancouver-Winnipeg route was an economic decision based on projected demand. I think it’s a fantastic idea, especially with Greyhound having pulled out of the west in 2018.

I am driving to Calgary for 6 months. When I first heard of the new restrictions in Manitoba I thought our winter vacation was toast. After calling Manitoba Tourism and being advised to contact another number dealing with COVID, I was advised that you can drive through Manitoba and if you have to stop you can stay at a hotel but you have to isolate there for the night and continue on the next day. You can stop for fuel and stop at drive thru's for food.

The problem with only running trains 2 days a week as previously scheduled is that you would have to stay over for more than 1 night so you probably are not considered being in-transit according to their rules.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If you did that, you would probably need to double or triple the length of the through train and the "cut up" trains would be significantly shorter than they are currently.



Yes. That is why VIA adds extra cars for the Vancouver-Edmonton portion of the trip and it is also why it isn't that big a deal that they had to shorten one of the trains to only do the Edmonton-Vancouver leg due to ongoing infrastructure works.



That could be one reason why few take the train from coast to coast.




Easy. Bring back the tourists.



But those isolated communities are along CN's ROW not CP's ROW and CN's ROW doesn't go to Thunder Bay, so I don't see how that would help at all.



Actually both Longlac and Nakina are east of Terrace Bay and thus would not considered part of northwestern Ontario by the Order.

They could certainly have a temporary weekly train from Winnipeg to Sioux Lookout as the entire service would be within Manitoba/northwestern Ontario. A separate train would be needed for service east of Sioux Lookout though.

Covid is showing us the weaknesses in our world. This is just a small part that hopefully can be resolved.

[Gat-Train]

Why does VIA still make you line up as though boarding for an airplane? Why can't they just let you go on the platform as though you were boarding a GO Train? They check your boarding pass while on the train anyway. Seems kinda redundant tbh.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Why does VIA still make you line up as though boarding for an airplane? Why can't they just let you go on the platform as though you were boarding a GO Train? They check your boarding pass while on the train anyway. Seems kinda redundant tbh.

They only do it at the major stations with small platforms (which is all of them). They don’t want people to be pushed onto the tracks because of overcrowding. You can wait on the platforms at the smaller stations that have fewer passengers (like Fallowfield station in Ottawa).

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by roger1818

They only do it at the major stations with small platforms (which is all of them). They don’t want people to be pushed onto the tracks because of overcrowding. You can wait on the platforms at the smaller stations that have fewer passengers (like Fallowfield station in Ottawa).

Small as in narrow? Compare the size of platforms for VIA to those for AMT or GO.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Small as in narrow? Compare the size of platforms for VIA to those for AMT or GO.

I have been told that the platforms available to VIA at Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal are too narrow for two escalators being placed next to each other to allow a bidirectional flow of passengers between the platform and passenger concourse. Since many people using VIA have heavy luggage, it is important to have escalators operating in both directions.

Apparently Exo (the new name for AMT) and GO avoid this issue by not using escalators (or having them set to only go up) and have mobility-reduced passengers use an elevator.

Looking at the VIA's plans for Elevated Passenger Platforms in Ottawa, it seems as though they will be widening the island platforms in Phases IB and II, which will hopefully allow passengers onto the platforms before the train arrives and reduce the dwell time. There isn't much they can do in Toronto and Montreal as they don't own the stations.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Why does VIA still make you line up as though boarding for an airplane? Why can't they just let you go on the platform as though you were boarding a GO Train? They check your boarding pass while on the train anyway. Seems kinda redundant tbh.

It’s a great question and one that contributes to having such slow service in Canada. I don’t understand how every train station in the UK and Europe can have boarding on the platform but we can’t figure that out? I’m fully in support of upgrading our rail service but little things like this are frustrating b/c we could upgrade the speed without doing much.

[swimmer_spe]

https://www.facebook.com/22364916782...91855007650506

A video on Facebook from Vox highlights the good and bad about transit. Ironically it shows how compared to the USA cities, Toronto has good transit. Toronto also has good transit ridership. They compare Toronto to places like Chicago and Washington DC.

In this video, the idea is that transit that is at least every half hour till midnight builds ridership. Chicago and Washington are similar sized cities. They have Commuter rail and some sort of Subway. Their bus system lacks. If they were to improve their bus system, it would cause a rise in ridership.

Now, what does that matter with Via?
Well, lets look at Amtrak. All except 2 of Amtrak routes are daily round trip routes. Amtrak has good ridership on all of their routes.
Via only has one route; the Corridor, that has at least daily service if not better. Right now much of the system is shut down. I have said that to build ridership, daily service that is on time and predictable will build ridership. Why does Toronto have better ridership than Chicago and Washington? They have regular, scheduled service that is frequent. For long distance rail, going across Canada, much like Amtrak's Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, and Empire Builder, Having the Canadian and Ocean being a minimum daily service round trip would build ridership.

And when covid is over, people will want to travel much more. This is the prime time to invest in rail across this country, not just n the Corridor.

[milomilo]

I'm not sure how you came to those conclusions about VIA from that video, but the important takeaway was that high frequency of service where it is useful is what is important. Not having a 500 ton train serve a handful of people on an arbitrary route once a day.

A daily service is not useful, even if it was on time. Who would use that? The occasional student moving or another low income person visiting someone? You can't generate a self sustaining income on that, certainly not enough to justify the capital expenditure required to make the railway reliable.

[MolsonExport]

The whole ticketing, boarding, etc. process at Via seems so inefficient and archaic, compared to what I have experienced in most European and Asian countries.