New concert hall

[Colin May]

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...cert-hall-bodo

A new library and concert hall in the northern Norwegian town Bodo, population 50,000 - all for just $200,000,000

" Providing a new home for the recently-formed Arctic Philharmonic, the concert hall was developed with Arup acoustic engineers as a revolutionary two-in-one structure, able to flip from proscenium theatre to full symphonic hall at the flick of a switch, thanks to movable felt-lined panels and an ingenious folding bridge structure.
There is also a separate recital room and a nightclub-style basement venue – which will soon be put to the test by Mayhem, the Norwegian black metal band known for its DIY pyrotechnics, igniting barrels filled with paraffin and iron filings live on stage. "

[Keith P.]

I'd love to know how a city of 50,000 can afford a $200 million project like this.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I'd love to know how a city of 50,000 can afford a $200 million project like this.

Read the article, the explanation is early in the narrative. And the Norwegians are loaded with oil and gas revenue stashed away.
The Oslo Opera house was over $700 million USD in 2008 in a city of 593,000.
So much for a concert venue in HRM for $60 million - dream on.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Read the article, the explanation is early in the narrative. And the Norwegians are loaded with oil and gas revenue stashed away.
The Oslo Opera house was over $700 million USD in 2008 in a city of 593,000.
So much for a concert venue in HRM for $60 million - dream on.

It says why they did it but not how they are going to pay for it.

It probably would have been $60M for the concert hall alone. Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It says why they did it but not how they are going to pay for it.

It probably would have been $60M for the concert hall alone. Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof.

Their national government has massive amounts of money.

I don't know any place in Europe of N America where a recently built a concert hall cost $60,000,000.
The staff at HRM are using creative accounting - they let a reporter and the council think they had a surplus in 2013/14 when it was actually a deficit.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Their national government has massive amounts of money.

I don't know any place in Europe of N America where a recently built a concert hall cost $60,000,000.
The staff at HRM are using creative accounting - they let a reporter and the council think they had a surplus in 2013/14 when it was actually a deficit.

Canadian cities are by law prohibited from running a deficit, so they all use creative accounting to balance the books. Overall, HRM has one of the lowest per-person debt levels in Canada. (By a big margin, too.)

[someone123]

Amusingly I think one of the old performing arts centre proposals was called "Nova Centre". They'll have to pick a new name.

Presumably there's lots of room to scale up or down in spending from this Norway example, and it's not clear that the design or construction costs would be comparable in Halifax. Is the municipality even looking at a specific set of requirements yet? Everything I've read about this project has been vague. It seems premature to start complaining about how much it will cost.

The idea of a waterfront location does sound pretty interesting.

[JET]

"Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof." Sounds like a conspiracy; if only we'd listened.

[ILoveHalifax]

A couple of years ago there was mention of a stadium in the harbor above the water.
What an interesting concept for a concert hall, a real architectural gem out over the water.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

"Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof." Sounds like a conspiracy; if only we'd listened.

Well, yes.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Canadian cities are by law prohibited from running a deficit, so they all use creative accounting to balance the books. Overall, HRM has one of the lowest per-person debt levels in Canada. (By a big margin, too.)

They are prohibited from passing a budget which projects a deficit.
If the year ends with a deficit the amount must be the first item to be rated in the next fiscal year.
I wrote about this in mid June and Waye Mason said I was wrong.
He was wrong and I was correct in listing the 2013/2014 operating account as a deficit of $232,000 - which came after 5 years of Kelly surpluses totalling $39 million, although I don't think that a mayor should be credited with a surplus or deficit. Nor should a mayor claim credit for a surplus.
A mayor should clearly declare the results of the fiscal year in the same way a finance minister in Ottawa and Halifax informs the taxpayers of the annual deficit/surplus. This year HRM financial staff chose to muddy the waters by issuing a carefully crafted report which left the impression that there was a surplus.
A report to Finance & Audit Cttee meeting on Wednesday has much clearer wording and mentions the dreaded 'd' word.
I'll be posting a fuller explanation of the 2013/14 deficit reporting debacle in the Business & Politics section in the next 24-36 hours.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Overall, HRM has one of the lowest per-person debt levels in Canada. (By a big margin, too.)

Isn't that largely because they moved the entire sewer/water operation off their books?

[hokus83]

What does any of this discussion have to do with a concert hall here. The stupidity of this thread is unreal

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by hokus83

What does any of this discussion have to do with a concert hall here. The stupidity of this thread is unreal

Because up thread I added a sentence in a story about an expensive concert hall and referred to the creative accounting required to arrive at a cost of $60 million for a concert hall in Halifax.
And that reference caused a reply.
Pub talk - never stays on topic.

[Waye Mason]

The municipality is not contemplating a 60 million concert hall. It was in the capital plan as a possible project for Council to consider largely because some well connected but not particularly knowledgable advocates have been pushing for it. Council took that out of the capital plan and asked staff to develop an arts and culture capital investment plan. This was removed months ago.

[hokus83]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

The municipality is not contemplating a 60 million concert hall. It was in the capital plan as a possible project for Council to consider largely because some well connected but not particularly knowledgable advocates have been pushing for it. Council took that out of the capital plan and asked staff to develop an arts and culture capital investment plan. This was removed months ago.

So this is completely off the table now? I would rather this be built than a Foot ball thing

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hokus83

So this is completely off the table now? I would rather this be built than a Foot ball thing

I believe there were questions about a concert hall in some HRM survey I saw recently.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I believe there were questions about a concert hall in some HRM survey I saw recently.

Perhaps you are referring to Metro Halifax's City Matters survey. Metro reported earlier this week that something over 60 per cent of respondents favoured capital investment in a performing arts venue but only 38 per cent favoured a stadium. Of course the question apparently asked if people supported a "CFL stadium"; the Mayor pointed out that a stadium would have to do more than just house the CFL.

In any case, I'm not sure how much validity the survey has since I don't believe the newspaper has released either the actual quesions or said much about the methodology.

[Waye Mason]

The attempt to remove the stadium from the list was not successful. There is still money possibly on the table, but not enough to build a CFL stadium.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by hokus83

So this is completely off the table now? I would rather this be built than a Foot ball thing

A concert hall is not a performing arts venue. Great concert halls are expensive, good concert halls are expensive. Multi purpose concert halls rarely work, too many compromises to meet the needs of different groups.
A venue with several buildings would be the best, and expensive solution.
I often wonder about the operating costs and revenue of the various facilities, Spatz auditorium, Alderney Landing, the auditoria (?) in schools.