New concert hall

[Colin May]

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...cert-hall-bodo

A new library and concert hall in the northern Norwegian town Bodo, population 50,000 - all for just $200,000,000

" Providing a new home for the recently-formed Arctic Philharmonic, the concert hall was developed with Arup acoustic engineers as a revolutionary two-in-one structure, able to flip from proscenium theatre to full symphonic hall at the flick of a switch, thanks to movable felt-lined panels and an ingenious folding bridge structure.
There is also a separate recital room and a nightclub-style basement venue – which will soon be put to the test by Mayhem, the Norwegian black metal band known for its DIY pyrotechnics, igniting barrels filled with paraffin and iron filings live on stage. "

[Keith P.]

I'd love to know how a city of 50,000 can afford a $200 million project like this.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I'd love to know how a city of 50,000 can afford a $200 million project like this.

Read the article, the explanation is early in the narrative. And the Norwegians are loaded with oil and gas revenue stashed away.
The Oslo Opera house was over $700 million USD in 2008 in a city of 593,000.
So much for a concert venue in HRM for $60 million - dream on.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Read the article, the explanation is early in the narrative. And the Norwegians are loaded with oil and gas revenue stashed away.
The Oslo Opera house was over $700 million USD in 2008 in a city of 593,000.
So much for a concert venue in HRM for $60 million - dream on.

It says why they did it but not how they are going to pay for it.

It probably would have been $60M for the concert hall alone. Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It says why they did it but not how they are going to pay for it.

It probably would have been $60M for the concert hall alone. Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof.

Their national government has massive amounts of money.

I don't know any place in Europe of N America where a recently built a concert hall cost $60,000,000.
The staff at HRM are using creative accounting - they let a reporter and the council think they had a surplus in 2013/14 when it was actually a deficit.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Their national government has massive amounts of money.

I don't know any place in Europe of N America where a recently built a concert hall cost $60,000,000.
The staff at HRM are using creative accounting - they let a reporter and the council think they had a surplus in 2013/14 when it was actually a deficit.

Canadian cities are by law prohibited from running a deficit, so they all use creative accounting to balance the books. Overall, HRM has one of the lowest per-person debt levels in Canada. (By a big margin, too.)

[someone123]

Amusingly I think one of the old performing arts centre proposals was called "Nova Centre". They'll have to pick a new name.

Presumably there's lots of room to scale up or down in spending from this Norway example, and it's not clear that the design or construction costs would be comparable in Halifax. Is the municipality even looking at a specific set of requirements yet? Everything I've read about this project has been vague. It seems premature to start complaining about how much it will cost.

The idea of a waterfront location does sound pretty interesting.

[JET]

"Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof." Sounds like a conspiracy; if only we'd listened.

[ILoveHalifax]

A couple of years ago there was mention of a stadium in the harbor above the water.
What an interesting concept for a concert hall, a real architectural gem out over the water.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

"Those damn librarians asking for the moon and getting it always drive the price of facilities through the roof." Sounds like a conspiracy; if only we'd listened.

Well, yes.

[hokus83]

What does any of this discussion have to do with a concert hall here. The stupidity of this thread is unreal

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by hokus83

What does any of this discussion have to do with a concert hall here. The stupidity of this thread is unreal

Because up thread I added a sentence in a story about an expensive concert hall and referred to the creative accounting required to arrive at a cost of $60 million for a concert hall in Halifax.
And that reference caused a reply.
Pub talk - never stays on topic.

[Waye Mason]

The municipality is not contemplating a 60 million concert hall. It was in the capital plan as a possible project for Council to consider largely because some well connected but not particularly knowledgable advocates have been pushing for it. Council took that out of the capital plan and asked staff to develop an arts and culture capital investment plan. This was removed months ago.

[hokus83]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

The municipality is not contemplating a 60 million concert hall. It was in the capital plan as a possible project for Council to consider largely because some well connected but not particularly knowledgable advocates have been pushing for it. Council took that out of the capital plan and asked staff to develop an arts and culture capital investment plan. This was removed months ago.

So this is completely off the table now? I would rather this be built than a Foot ball thing

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hokus83

So this is completely off the table now? I would rather this be built than a Foot ball thing

I believe there were questions about a concert hall in some HRM survey I saw recently.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I believe there were questions about a concert hall in some HRM survey I saw recently.

Perhaps you are referring to Metro Halifax's City Matters survey. Metro reported earlier this week that something over 60 per cent of respondents favoured capital investment in a performing arts venue but only 38 per cent favoured a stadium. Of course the question apparently asked if people supported a "CFL stadium"; the Mayor pointed out that a stadium would have to do more than just house the CFL.

In any case, I'm not sure how much validity the survey has since I don't believe the newspaper has released either the actual quesions or said much about the methodology.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by hokus83

So this is completely off the table now? I would rather this be built than a Foot ball thing

A concert hall is not a performing arts venue. Great concert halls are expensive, good concert halls are expensive. Multi purpose concert halls rarely work, too many compromises to meet the needs of different groups.
A venue with several buildings would be the best, and expensive solution.
I often wonder about the operating costs and revenue of the various facilities, Spatz auditorium, Alderney Landing, the auditoria (?) in schools.

[Spire]

Originally Posted by Colin May

A concert hall is not a performing arts venue. Great concert halls are expensive, good concert halls are expensive. Multi purpose concert halls rarely work, too many compromises to meet the needs of different groups.
A venue with several buildings would be the best, and expensive solution.
I often wonder about the operating costs and revenue of the various facilities, Spatz auditorium, Alderney Landing, the auditoria (?) in schools.

Very true. There is some misinformation out there that the Cohn was originally designed as a lecture hall, not a concert hall. Having looked at the original design documents and promotional material, it is clear that it was designed first and foremost as a concert hall, and it's a pretty good one at that - apart from the fact that the acoustics are a little too dry, and the seating capacity is a little on the small side. Would it be great to have a new one? Yes, especially considering the Cohn is constantly booked wall-to-wall with events.

As someone who's worked tech for theatre shows in various performing arts venues around HRM, and knows people who have worked in most of them, there are very few venues that could be called "perfect," that's for sure.

The Bella Rose and Spatz Theatres lack in technical capabilities, fly towers, and sufficient wing space, especially compared to previous auditoriums in St. Pat's and QEH - the Spatz doesn't even have a stage right wing! Guess everyone's going to have to enter the set from stage left. They made do with the resources they had when designing and building them, but they both come off as kind of half-assed. The Bella Rose is a step above the Spatz, at least.

Neptune's Fountain Hall is a well-designed, classic space, but the stage is far too small for some of the productions Neptune puts on, especially for some of the big musical numbers involving choreography. Considering this is Halifax's "premiere" theatre company, I wish they had a bigger main stage...

The best venue in the city for theatre and dance, in my opinion, is the James Dunn Theatre in the Dalhousie Arts Centre - the largest proscenium arch stage in Halifax, by far, and one of the largest in Atlantic Canada, massive wing space, stage elevators, a 45-foot fly tower, well-designed backstage and technical facilities...it's that rare situation where they got everything right. The only downside (and it's a big one) is the small seating capacity (around 200), and lack of wide availability for outside productions due to its use by Dal's Fountain School of Performing Arts, but the stadium seating means the sightlines are perfect.

Fun fact...the Dunn has also been rented out as a makeshift soundstage for films - the Pierce Brosnan miniseries "Bag of Bones" used it for this purpose...

[Waye Mason]

The attempt to remove the stadium from the list was not successful. There is still money possibly on the table, but not enough to build a CFL stadium.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

The attempt to remove the stadium from the list was not successful. There is still money possibly on the table, but not enough to build a CFL stadium.

I don't know of anyone who believes council should put enough "money on the table" to build a "CFL stadium". I believe there are many who think it would be quite appropriate for the city to show leadership in bringing the partners together to build a 'right-sized' stadium for this city, or concert venue for that matter.

That a city with our population and our demographics cannot support even a modest athletic stadium and/or a large concert facility strikes me as bizarre. I have a hard time getting past the fact that there are four universities in this city with athletic programs including football, soccer, and track; they cannot find the wherewithal to cooperate to advance the development of a community stadium. I find it perplexing that council is apparently not ready to lead, as Ottawa did when it attracted private sector partners to revitalize a decaying precinct, at the same time rebuilding a stadium that was well used, not just for pro football, but also for soccer, university sports, and open-air concerts.

I recently had a chance to visit Seattle and spent quite a bit of time in and around the remarkable Seattle Center complex. Seattle Center is a massive site that includes a 12,000-seat stadium, a 17,000 seat arena, a 2900-seat concert hall, five theatres, parkland, museums, galleries, restaurants and many more attractions. It's a recreation and arts showpiece that has -- to be clear -- developed over more than fifty years.

Oh, if we could dream of creating even a small facsimile of such a site in Halifax. Of course in our poor little city we could never hope to build such a thing. Not even a shadow of it. Not a chance.

Just incidentally, the Shannon Park lands are 82 acres, compared to Seattle Center's 74 acres. Halifax's metro population is 400,000; Seattle's is 652,000. Halifax's median total household income is $80,490 CAD (2012 census). Seattle's is $62,195 USD (2010 census). Halifax's unemployment rate is 6% (NSLabour Force Survey: Oct. 2014); Seattle's is 5.1% (USDofL: Sept 2014)

So what really holds us back anyway?