[Halifax] The Winslow (2570 Windsor) | 20 m | 7 fl | U/C

[willowstreetresident]

I live across the street from the development you are talking about and know first hand what has been going on.

It is unfortunate that the public sees this as "crazy community vs. honourable church". The proposed development is NOT as beautiful as the photos posted on this website. The proposal which was submitted to the Halifax planning department looks like a solid wall of windows, and has no variation in depth as is shown on these renderings. I'm not sure why the church has decided to keep these drawings on their webpage despite them not representing the drawings which were actually submitted. I would be delighted if they built something that looked like these renderings, but unfortunately the church is firm that the building will be seven storeys, straight up, in a neighbourghood that is entirely two to three storey old residential houses from 1930-1950. The nearest tall building is in a redevlopped military section of town two blocks away but the character there is completely open and there are no small houses. The next nearest tall buildings are almost 1 km away. The idea of affordable housing is a just one, but the proposed building is WAY TOO BIG for this neighbourhood.

End of story.

Jennifer

[halifaxboyns]

So if what you are saying is true - then what if the building design was adjusted to articulate the facade walls and things like that - but still remained 7 storeys?

For example; the first two storeys were straight up and then the massing was pushed back from all the property lines and moved further into the site? Would you support it then or is your position that 7 stories is still too tall?

[fenwick16]

One additional thing to remember is that this is a building that is intended to be used by the elderly. These will be good neighbours who will make very little noise and very few will have cars. It will also probably create both voluntary and paid jobs in the neighbourhood.

[beyeas]

There are two seperate issues here...

One is the allegation that there is a bait and switch here. I thought the original plans were quite good for that area, however if what you say is true that it will actually be a box, then that might change things.

Second is the question of height, with which I completely disagree with you. This building sits on the corner of one of the primary arteries through the peninsula, and is meters away from another orthogonal artery. Such an area is not simply a quiet residential neighbourhood, but rather a busy corner on a main street with significant car and transit traffic. I also take exception to your premise that this area is devoid of so-called "tall" buildings, given that 200 meters away is the Gladstone development, 500 meters away are condos along the commons... NOT 1000 meters as you stated. This is not a matter of placing a 7 story building in a quiet off the beaten track residential cul-de-sac or something, but rather a medium density building being constructed directly along a busy transit corridor in an area in which surrounding blocks have also begun to develop similar density structures.

The question of design and layout is certainly a valid debate, but I disagree with categorical yet subjective statements like buildings being "WAY TOO BIG" for this neighbourhood.

[DigitalNinja]

Isn't this right by kaye st building?

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Isn't this right by kaye st building?

This is at the corner of Windsor and Willow, which is 50 meters down Windsor from North Street.

I think you are thinking of the St Joseph's development.

[DigitalNinja]

Opps, got my locations mixed up

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Opps, got my locations mixed up

No matter. The locals there are getting all whipped up to oppose that one too, because, as we all know, "IT'S TOO TALL!!!"

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No matter. The locals there are getting all whipped up to oppose that one too, because, as we all know, "IT'S TOO TALL!!!"

how stupid.

7 stories? 70 feet. what the hell is wrong with people

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by sdm

how stupid.

7 stories? 70 feet. what the hell is wrong with people

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with a 7 story building in a neighbourhood of 2 or 3 story buildings. It's a natural step up, especially since its on the penninsula. As far as Im concerned, a 7 story building fits in just about anywhere on the penninsula.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with a 7 story building in a neighbourhood of 2 or 3 story buildings. It's a natural step up, especially since its on the penninsula. As far as Im concerned, a 7 story building fits in just about anywhere on the penninsula.

even 12 stories does.

Why can't we set the as of rights to this level so we can keep density near the core..........

[someone123]

I live in a 5 storey condo building in Vancouver. Right next door are a series of 30 storey or so towers and to be honest I don't even tend to notice them. They make very little difference aside from helping to support the mall and rapid transit line that I live close by to and increasing the housing supply. Overall, the benefits seem to outweigh the costs for me personally, let alone for the people who live in those buildings.

People in general when confronted with the idea of a hypothetical building next door tend to have a hugely exaggerated sense of its impact. You hear about things like traffic for example when about 95% of the time if you look at even a larger residential building nobody is entering or exiting. Occasionally seeing a car on the street that wouldn't otherwise be there is not a significant impact.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

I live in a 5 storey condo building in Vancouver. Right next door are a series of 30 storey or so towers and to be honest I don't even tend to notice them. They make very little difference aside from helping to support the mall and rapid transit line that I live close by to and increasing the housing supply. Overall, the benefits seem to outweigh the costs for me personally, let alone for the people who live in those buildings.

People in general when confronted with the idea of a hypothetical building next door tend to have a hugely exaggerated sense of its impact. You hear about things like traffic for example when about 95% of the time if you look at even a larger residential building nobody is entering or exiting. Occasionally seeing a car on the street that wouldn't otherwise be there is not a significant impact.

Best part is if they keep surpressing height then there won't be any new buildings built as the economics/ market will not support it.

For example, land cost keep going up, yet the density keeps going down. There is only some much in the way of land cost a multi family property can absorb before it becomes uneconomical. If the land costs are still high then the only suitable development is therefore condos and not rentals. Not saying condos are bad, just that there needs to be rentals as well.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by willowstreetresident

I live across the street from the development you are talking about and know first hand what has been going on.

It is unfortunate that the public sees this as "crazy community vs. honourable church". The proposed development is NOT as beautiful as the photos posted on this website. The proposal which was submitted to the Halifax planning department looks like a solid wall of windows, and has no variation in depth as is shown on these renderings. I'm not sure why the church has decided to keep these drawings on their webpage despite them not representing the drawings which were actually submitted. I would be delighted if they built something that looked like these renderings, but unfortunately the church is firm that the building will be seven storeys, straight up, in a neighbourghood that is entirely two to three storey old residential houses from 1930-1950. The nearest tall building is in a redevlopped military section of town two blocks away but the character there is completely open and there are no small houses. The next nearest tall buildings are almost 1 km away. The idea of affordable housing is a just one, but the proposed building is WAY TOO BIG for this neighbourhood.

End of story.

Jennifer

Way too big???

You are referring to Gladstone Ridge (approximately twice as tall). It has 2 story houses in front of it (approximately the same distance as the church property would be from any houses across from it), so your argument holds no water.

I was raised in "your" neighborhood and its clear to me that 7 stories isn't far off the former height of the church tower.

There is no mis-communication with this group, we read the actual planning documents.

Get your own facts straight before posting on a skyscraper forum.

[alps]

My old neighbourhood in Toronto, "Davisville Village", is made up of tons of 30 storey commie blocks and ironically it's loads quieter than where I live in Halifax (Oxford Street) for two reasons:

1) Everyone in Davisville takes the subway, made viable by the highrises, or walks
2) Oxford is clogged daily with drivers heading out to low-density suburbia

I would be willing to bet that even Davisville Avenue had less traffic than Oxford. Obviously a neighbourhood of such density as Davisville isn't for everyone but this St John project would be totally appropriate for this area. More of it and the urban form would begin to resemble Vancouver's West End I think.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by willowstreetresident

I live across the street from the development you are talking about and know first hand what has been going on.

It is unfortunate that the public sees this as "crazy community vs. honourable church". The proposed development is NOT as beautiful as the photos posted on this website. The proposal which was submitted to the Halifax planning department looks like a solid wall of windows, and has no variation in depth as is shown on these renderings. I'm not sure why the church has decided to keep these drawings on their webpage despite them not representing the drawings which were actually submitted. I would be delighted if they built something that looked like these renderings, but unfortunately the church is firm that the building will be seven storeys, straight up, in a neighbourghood that is entirely two to three storey old residential houses from 1930-1950. The nearest tall building is in a redevlopped military section of town two blocks away but the character there is completely open and there are no small houses. The next nearest tall buildings are almost 1 km away. The idea of affordable housing is a just one, but the proposed building is WAY TOO BIG for this neighbourhood.

End of story.

Jennifer

Also, 7 stories doesn't qualify as tall and the Welsford is not nearly a KM away...

Furthermore, its clear that this is NIMBY self-interest. I know the Willow Street residents think they are better than other people.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by willowstreetresident

I live across the street from the development you are talking about and know first hand what has been going on.

It is unfortunate that the public sees this as "crazy community vs. honourable church". The proposed development is NOT as beautiful as the photos posted on this website. The proposal which was submitted to the Halifax planning department looks like a solid wall of windows, and has no variation in depth as is shown on these renderings. I'm not sure why the church has decided to keep these drawings on their webpage despite them not representing the drawings which were actually submitted. I would be delighted if they built something that looked like these renderings, but unfortunately the church is firm that the building will be seven storeys, straight up, in a neighbourghood that is entirely two to three storey old residential houses from 1930-1950. The nearest tall building is in a redevlopped military section of town two blocks away but the character there is completely open and there are no small houses. The next nearest tall buildings are almost 1 km away. The idea of affordable housing is a just one, but the proposed building is WAY TOO BIG for this neighbourhood.

End of story.

Jennifer

Anyone who ends their argument with "end of story" either has something to hide or is a conservative supporter - they win all their arguments that way.

This a solid project in an area ripe for some redevelopment. It also offers seniors some much need unassisted living options in the city, when most are being built in unaccessible places, like those near the 4plex in Bedford. As well, it shows the need for churches and other community groups to adapt to new conditions in innovative ways.

[halifaxboyns]

You know guys - just be glad you aren't using the system we have here in Calgary. We use a development control bylaw - very few uses are as of right. Most are what we can discretionary - meaning subject to public appeal and even if you meet the rules, if there is a sound planning argument not to support your proposal - it could still be refused a permit.

I can't tell you how often I've heard this argument for moderate sized buildings. It's so silly - it shocks me how many appeals are lodged on this 'idea' that development in the area is bad. It's surprising anything gets built in Calgary - you can even appeal a house.

It's funny - I had thought about buying in this area if I moved home. But after willowstreet's post - nope. Not interested in living in this community.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

It's funny - I had thought about buying in this area if I moved home. But after willowstreet's post - nope. Not interested in living in this community.

There will be people opposed to new things anywhere you move... perhaps an open-minded neighbour or two might help the rest of the 'hood along?

It also remains to be seen whether or not the design has actually changed. What Jennifer is describing may be an unsavoury change... OR it may be misinterpretation of technical drawings submitted for formal applications. Not everyone is adept at reading plans and elevations. If it is a switch - I reserve judgment until I see these new altered drawings. If it is a misinterpretation from a group of laypeople, then it seems the developer needs to educate the neighbourhood a little better.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Way too big???

You are referring to Gladstone Ridge (approximately twice as tall). It has 2 story houses in front of it (approximately the same distance as the church property would be from any houses across from it), so your argument holds no water.

Yeah I measured on googlemaps and Gladstone is 200 meters from the site.