CHICAGO | General Developments

[joeg1985]

^ Amen! We pedestrians need a bone or two every now and again.

[BWChicago]

And it's space between two transportation corridors, so it makes a lot of sense as mitigation.

[Mr Roboto]

About 5 years ago I had my rehearsal dinner for my wedding at a restaurant along the river. All of the out of towners were in shock and awe at how beautiful the river is in between the canyon of buildings. To have more designated areas for pedestrians will put the experience at a another level. This project will be awesome.

[Skyguy_7]

^ It is awe-inspiring, even for a locals! Before Wolf Point is blocked off for construction(), I highly suggest taking stroll around the sidewalk that encircles the peninsula- it's by far the best and most seldom seen vantage point in the city. May I ask which restaurant you're referring to?

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Kohl's is a department store. People tend to lose that association because you typically don't find them connected to malls or in downtowns. Though it would be nice to have them on State Street as another anchor.

Replacement for Sears when they imo eventually inevitably close their State Street store? Although I don't get the impression at all that Kohl's understands urban core, mixed-use area, multiple source-of-demand type locations......I recall several years ago comments a Kohl's representative made as they were contemplating their first location inside Chicago city limits that really got this unfortunate point across........they seemed to at least have a very simple more singular suburban-oriented approach to trade area analysis and expansion strategy that works less well in the city in general, and works extremely poorly when you get to the urban core....hopefully they're more enlightened these days, but I have a healthy skepticism, and one not unfounded, as national retailers in the last 20 years have by and large proven themselves very clumsy and slow on the uptake when it comes to understanding truly urban areas and how to approach them (I think largely a consequence of what happened in the 50s-80s as far as suburbanization and related retail development in the US)....

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

That is good news.

I'm curious about the riverwalk buildout and retail. I've seen the renderings for all the different themes and activities, but I haven't seen anything to indicate whether there would be retail space added along the riverwalk.

I'd love to have the riverfront become a tourism draw, but if there were decent retail/food options down there it would also bring locals and kind of re-route the pedestrian flow from upper wacker.

I guess something to avoid is it becoming another Navy Pier.

Clear routing between the riverwalk and millennium/grant park would be nice, too. Maybe some blue signage to point people up to Michigan and down a few blocks.

I'm suddenly really jazzed about the riverwalk. We hava a start year, funding identified, no longer feels like a concept or vision but something much more concrete to look forward to as a great new amenity and draw for downtown in a few years....

[Mr Roboto]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^ It is awe-inspiring, even for a locals! Before Wolf Point is blocked off for construction(), I highly suggest taking stroll around the sidewalk that encircles the peninsula- it's by far the best and most seldom seen vantage point in the city. May I ask which restaurant you're referring to?

It was the Flatwater, which has since closed I believe. The food was decent, but the ambiance and view was what was really special about that place. Theres something about being along the river. Many of the worlds greatest cities do not have the asset we have in the river.

[wierdaaron]

When I first visited Chicago as a teenager, the river corridor was my favorite. The view from the Wrigley or NBC plazas, and the feeling of being on Upper Wacker and being able to look down at the water while being surrounded by skyscrapers was amazing to me.

When I finally moved here, I was surprised to find that the riverfront isn't regarded as the heart of the city. A few people stop for photos in front of Wrigley on their way to MagMile, but beyond that there's not really a sense of destination to the riverfront. Riverfront views don't even seem to be something people brag about (outside of Riverbend). The river-view rooms at Hotel 71 seem like they should cost twice as much as they do, for instance.

I really, really hope this works.

[jarta]

^^^

Great description!

The Riverwalk will work because it has worked to the east of State St. and on the north side of the River west of State St. to 300 N. LaSalle. The Riverwalk will become a destination on both sides all the way to the Confluence.

Few people are aware of the perspectives/views down or even along the River. Wacker blocks access, but now there's really little to cross the street for. However, RiverBend residents know about those River views. The views from the Hotel 71 (night photo by Bob Gally hanging in my unit; link http://www.bobgally.com/#!untitled/zoom/cpb5/imagez08) and the south Riverwalk will definitely be overwhelmed by a 90-story tower built flush out to the point of Wolf Point (and even a little farther south). But, something large will be built on Wolf Point - even if it's not the current Pelli design.

Let the party begin!

[SamInTheLoop]

^ Crap! I forgot to log-in before perusing so Jarta was unignored!!

[J_M_Tungsten]

Wolf point, River point, and now the Riverwalk will all make astounding improvements over the unfinished look of the river corridor. This WILL be a "must see" spot on every tourist's list, not to mention, at the top of mine!

[nomarandlee]

@J_M_Tungsten

Agreed. Even though I definitely squabble with some of the design details of each project I'm excited. If done at all thoughtfully and well executed collectively they should at least be worth checking out for most visitors and residents.

If executed better then renders show I think it definitely has a potential to be more well regarded and more attractive then Millennium Park has been. It would be almost hard to screw up. To me its just more a question of how well the finish turns out, decent or spectacular.

[wierdaaron]

One thing that always makes me grin about the Riverwalk renders is the emphasis they place on kayaking and interacting with the river itself. They call for what looks like kayak rentals and launching straight from the walk.

I've kayaked on lakes (Lake Huron, even) and really enjoyed it, and I know there's pretty affordable Chicago River kayaking, but I would be damn terrified to kayak on that river after what I've read about the water quality. Plus the general knowledge that I was paddling over the cemented remnants of untold thousands of disappeared teamsters, mobsters, and ATF investigators would be hard to suppress.

Unless the plan also includes a few hundred million to clean up the river and improve the sewage sanitation system to bring it more on par with other major cities, I don't think it would be wise to encourage unsuspecting tourists to dip their feet and splish-splash in those waters.

Are the kayak rental places going to post messages like this?

"Hey folks, have fun out there, but just remember: DO NOT LET THE WATER TOUCH YOUR SKIN OR CLOTHING. Have a great time though!"

[joeg1985]

The city already has a plan for improving the sewage treatment plants. It's going to be at least a decade before that is complete though.

[Steely Dan]

^^ wierdaaron, your hyperbolic fears are pretty silly. i've been an avid chicago river kayaker for years and while the water isn't exactly clean, it's far from dangerous. i've probably had untold gallons of river water splashed on me over the years with nary an issue.

in fact, with the warm weather forecast tomorrow, i'm planning to do a 14 mile river kayak journey from the dam up at foster down to chinatown. i may even head all the way down to mckinley park if i'm still feeling good, but this will be my 1st paddle of the season, so i'm guessing my arms will be burning after 14 miles.

i wouldn't recommend swimming in the river or certainly not drinking river water, but it's more than safe for incidental contact. besides, the MWRD has already approved a multi-million dollar project to sterilize outflow from its treatment plants. water quality WILL be improving in the coming years. what's more, the main branch is essentially just lake michigan water (due to the river reversal a century ago), it's far and away the cleanest section of the river, water-wise. the north and south branches are dodgier from a cleanliness standpoint (has anyone ever seen a chicago river jellyfsh? ), not that it stops me, hell, i'll even paddle down on bubbly creek and that's about as bad as it gets.

if you haven't seen them before, click the links in my signature below to see my fairly extensive phototours of the chicago river.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by jarta

^^^

Great description!

The Riverwalk will work because it has worked to the east of State St. and on the north side of the River west of State St. to 300 N. LaSalle. The Riverwalk will become a destination on both sides all the way to the Confluence.

Few people are aware of the perspectives/views down or even along the River. Wacker blocks access, but now there's really little to cross the street for. However, RiverBend residents know about those River views. The views from the Hotel 71 (night photo by Bob Gally hanging in my unit; link http://www.bobgally.com/#!untitled/zoom/cpb5/imagez08) and the south Riverwalk will definitely be overwhelmed by a 90-story tower built flush out to the point of Wolf Point (and even a little farther south). But, something large will be built on Wolf Point - even if it's not the current Pelli design.

Let the party begin!

Get over it dude. WP is happening and the 90-story building known as Trump Tower doesn't overwhelm the riverwalk in the area it's built.

Your argument is tiresome.

[wierdaaron]

All that vacant riverfront retail space in Trump's plaza is kind of depressing. Similar problem to Roosevelt Collection's retail, I imagine. Nobody wants to be the first store to move into an empty development.

They should hire a retail sales agency to try to broker deals behind closed doors and announce all at once, shouldn't they? The forthcoming riverwalk stuff should add increased value to be able to advertise visually to all the tourists across the river. Hell, they could start a free ferry service to volley groups of 50 tourists and pedestrians from the riverwalk across the river to trumpland every five minutes.

[george]

I've kayaked the river from North Ave to China Town and then down the main branch to the lock.
It's not that bad of water quality. You can't help but get splashed and I've never broken out in sores. One thing I can't figure out is where the river gets it's smell.
It's a peculiar odor which I can't place. Sort of a chemical base combined with notes of formaldehyde...

[J_M_Tungsten]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

All that vacant riverfront retail space in Trump's plaza is kind of depressing. Similar problem to Roosevelt Collection's retail, I imagine. Nobody wants to be the first store to move into an empty development.

They should hire a retail sales agency to try to broker deals behind closed doors and announce all at once, shouldn't they? The forthcoming riverwalk stuff should add increased value to be able to advertise visually to all the tourists across the river. Hell, they could start a free ferry service to volley groups of 50 tourists and pedestrians from the riverwalk across the river to trumpland every five minutes.

O yea, you're right. I completely forgot about the development at Trump! I forget that's even still an option for them. That would also really help in developing the completion of the river; at least in that area.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by joeg1985

^ Amen! We pedestrians need a bone or two every now and again.

I know I'm falling on deaf ears here, but this is not a transportation project.

It will not offer a quick journey across the Loop; because of crowds, cafes, curvy routings, and obstacles, it'll probably be a very slow way to move across downtown. It's also redundant with the sidewalks on Upper Wacker, which are already wide, comfortable, and quick with spectacular views, planter boxes, benches, etc. Nor are these sidewalks overcrowded.

I actually like the idea, think it's a great amenity for the city, will create a magnificent outdoor space, and it should be built some other way. But if we can get $100M from the Feds for transportation projects, aren't there more pressing needs than this? The abuse of Federal funding for pork projects like this only hurts the cause when we try to find new sources of funding for real transportation projects.