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  #5921  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 6:39 PM
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I would say inability to distinguish actual regressive power structures from convenient targets is a major problem for both sides of the political spectrum.
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  #5922  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post

On an unrelated note, the Denver Business Journal posted about the Canadian condo towers and some higher rise developments in RiNo. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...ource=facebook

Here is a rendering of Block 176. They say demolition this summer, excavation in October, and vertical action in 2020
I like!! Those Canadians sure know how to build residential towers! A little bit of Toronto and Vancouver in that design.
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  #5923  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 7:35 PM
Robert.hampton Robert.hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by DenvertoLA View Post
ooooooppfffffff I like that tower a lot. Keep the momentum going! Cue Marriott tower update
I would love to see these kinds of condo towers proliferate all over arapahoe square -- the upzoning would allow for it, wouldn't it?
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  #5924  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
The "S" word has been in the news a lot recently, though its clear to me that there's not necessarily any real agreement on what it means, generically or in the context of America in 2019.
That's a good liberal sounding script and a lot to unpack so I'll only scratch the surface.
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The sharply rising wealth inequality and the emergence of the "mega corporations" with valuations that exceed the GDP of many of the world's countries seems like a throw back to the days of Morgan, Carnegie, Mellon, and Rockefeller.
So being Big and successful auto means being bad?

I thank my lucky stars that this country is still leading the pack when it comes to creativity, ingenuity and success. These behemoths that are suddenly out of favor are successful because they have global footprints. Do you not want American companies to be globally successful? The irony to me is that Silicon Valley has been a bastion of liberalism; certainly Obama benefited immensely. But now we want to turn them into conservatives because they're too fat? Okay but be careful what you wish for.

These companies do employ a lot of HB-1 visa workers. Should we send them all back to India and let them innovate from there? Then we can eat their table scraps instead of continuing America's success. For shame a company would become too successful, whatever that means.
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The American legacy of each generation improving economically over the prior generation seems to have died.

There's a tendency on the right to call any sort of government action that is aimed at protecting consumers, workers or the disadvantaged as "socialism", as if the Bolsheviks were at the gates ready to crown an American Stalin.
I obviously must be getting more conservative by the day because I totally disagree. I'm sure you must have read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair? That novel dates to 1906. The number of 'safety' regulations from construction to the factory floor are immense. The number of people required with engineering or finance degrees multiplies by the decade as everything becomes more tech driven. I'm not anti-union but it's a fact that in many cases Unions have helped in the demise of many a good company. General Motors and Ford despite their recent impressive success are not out of the woods yet. Both companies may be lucky to survive. Would you prefer to live in a country where Jeff Bezos had no chance to be so successful?

Speaking of construction in Phoenix like Denver there's a shortage of qualified or quality workers even at a more labor intensive level. If you're good at it you can make a good living and after a few years own your own house and Big Truck. It may be that most construction workers make more than many liberal arts majors but good for construction workers. It's market driven place where they can easily join the middle class.

Landscape work is more menial. An owner of 3-4- 500 units would rather pay less than more ofc. They will also pay up for quality, dependable work for people who can do the job right the first time. I happen to have spoken with a number of lowly maintenance workers who own their own home. Maybe they just show up on time and work hard and make a good enough living.

Anyway there's still tons of opportunity out there but lacking the right or any skills it's not so easy as just being good at pouring concrete.
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  #5925  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 9:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
ripping additional holes in what is already the Western world's weakest safety net,

Implicit in all of the "good for business" ratings is an assumption that's what's good for business, is always good for America.
Cirrus once made the same identical claim leading me to believe this is a standard talking point.

Honestly I don't go looking for Republican wisdom but the best safety net is a (good) job. Free meals for kids? Fine. SS? fine. Assistance for for those who are incapacitated? fine. Medicare? fine.

Show me another country in your western world (with a diverse population) that has anything close to the economy and record low employment as we do. Poll after poll is showing record high optimism and satisfaction. Perhaps you'd prefer a safety net like Italy has? Their banks report half their loans as being 'non-performing'.


Photo by James Rojas via Streetsblog USA

What We Can Learn from ‘Latino Urbanism’
Jun 5, 2019 By Angie Schmitt - Streetsblog USA
Quote:
In Latino neighborhoods in Los Angeles and Chicago and Minneapolis, you might notice a few common elements: A front fence, maybe statue of the Virgin Mary, a table and chairs, even a fountain and perhaps a concrete or tile floor.

These are all elements of what planner James Rojas calls “Latino Urbanism,” an informal reordering of public and private space that reflects traditions from Spanish colonialism or even going back to indigenous Central and South American culture.
I'm familiar with these neighborhoods. They might not have tech-bro good jobs but they're a prideful group living their own definition of the American Dream.

Is our country perfect? Hell no; never has been, never will be. Would a more progressive income tax be better. So long as you build badly needed infrastructure providing more good jobs then fine.
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  #5926  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 10:17 PM
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What part of the city does Sawyer now represent? It is Hilltop? Hilltop up until the 1980’s was full of not-overly-large architect designed houses. There were some Art Deco, international style, mcm gems built there. But, sadly, since the 1990’s very many terrific houses have been torn down for speculative mansions that consume the whole lot and are just hideous and tacky as hell. What was once one of my favorite neighborhoods has been almost completely ruined. I hope Sawyer is the councilperson for Hilltop, and not some other neighborhood, because it is already a snobbish enclave and no dense development is ever going to happen there anyway. But, there should be a longer residency in order to run for city council, like 7-10 years or something. You really cannot, and should not, represent a place if you have only lived there for 3 years like Sawyer.
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  #5927  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post


Implicit in all of the "good for business" ratings is an assumption that's what's good for business, is always good for America.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Cirrus once made the same identical claim leading me to believe this is a standard talking point.

Well, to be honest the rote standard talking point to me seems the constant urge to view everything from the lens of what's "good for business," as if that's the ultimate value system by which all things are measured.

But I like LOTS of things are NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS and I hope they become public policy.

* I like Europe's approach to privacy and hope that the U.S. adopts that approach. That might not be "good for business" for the Facebooks and Googles of the world. Too bad for them.

* I think we should do everything we can do reduce and eliminate the use fossil fuels as soon as is practicable. That won't be good for Exxon's business. I could not care less.

* I think we spend way to much on defense and should cut substantially what we spend. That would be god awful for the business of defense contractors. That brings me great happiness.

So yea, what's good for business is not always what's good in my book.
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  #5928  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2019, 11:47 PM
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Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
There's a big damn difference between corporate power and the average American being screwed over, versus developers are evil and corporations are ruining our neighborhoods. The former is true, the latter is total nonsense. If folks kept the "socialism" (progressivism, whatever) talk to Washington and its rotten politics, I am all on board. But when those same attitudes incorrectly move to the neighborhood level, and suddenly Amazon is being driven out of Queens, and your average apartment developer is being lambasted for not building units with shitty enough counter-tops that he coudn't possibly market them as "luxury," that's a very different thing.
Well stated. I agree.
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  #5929  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 12:14 AM
mishko27 mishko27 is offline
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Can we just stop with the politics?

If someone told me that I'm ever going to say this, I would tell them they are crazy. I am a gay immigrant, so everything about me just existing is political, I am a political junkie and a total policy wonk, who believes that Americans do not talk enough about politics and the topic being a taboo is part of the reason why we are where we are.

But fuck, this is a place I come to for development news. I want to talk about urbanism. I want to talk about architecture. I really don't want to get into the nitty gritty of democratic socialism or try, for the millionth time, to do my whole "everyone fucking figured out healthcare but this country" speech.

So, go on reddit, Facebook, whatever Denver Post comment section and go off on each other there. But please, let's make this a place for sharing the development news.

Please.

Having said that.

Block 176 looks very Vancouver and I am into that.
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  #5930  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 1:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Originally Posted by CherryCreek
Implicit in all of the "good for business" ratings is an assumption that's what's good for business, is always good for America.
Somehow you missed the part that was highlighted in bold print.
Quote:
ripping additional holes in what is already the Western world's weakest safety net,
That is what I was referring to. To your point assuming that Big Business should become an easy target is not really a good solution. The tech industry provides millions upon millions of good paying jobs and to repeat myself I'm grateful these companies are American.

Privacy is a specific but vexing issue. A separate tech called Big Data came into it's own about a decade ago. Has over reach occurred in the past? I suspect so but haven't changes already been made in this regard?

The internet would also be a lot slower without cookies. Uber and Lyft couldn't exist without GPS tracking. Most people don't seem that concerned about their privacy. Hacking is a problem and larger companies are generally better equipped to deal with this. Not sure privacy has all that much to do with their success or size but's it's worthy of discussion. Not sure all assumptions or hyperbole are relevant though.

With respect to fossil fuels and Colorado, Xcel's plan sounds very ambitious to me. More generally EV's are probably the best solution and auto manufacturers are literally spending $billions upon $billions towards getting there. Not enough? Is anybody aware of how much things have improved in many cases. Colorado alone or even the U.S. alone can't solve the problem by themselves.

Defense spending I've commented before about how much is wasted so with respect to that specific issue I'd agree with you. The difficulty here is that most Americans generally favor defense spending so that's partly a representative democracy problem.

Many of these issues aren't so much about socialism.
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  #5931  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mishko27 View Post
Can we just stop with the politics?

If someone told me that I'm ever going to say this, I would tell them they are crazy. I am a gay immigrant, so everything about me just existing is political, I am a political junkie and a total policy wonk, who believes that Americans do not talk enough about politics and the topic being a taboo is part of the reason why we are where we are.

But fuck, this is a place I come to for development news. I want to talk about urbanism. I want to talk about architecture. I really don't want to get into the nitty gritty of democratic socialism or try, for the millionth time, to do my whole "everyone fucking figured out healthcare but this country" speech.

So, go on reddit, Facebook, whatever Denver Post comment section and go off on each other there. But please, let's make this a place for sharing the development news.

Please.

Having said that.

Block 176 looks very Vancouver and I am into that.
We just had an election that basically came down to NIMBY vs YIMBY, as the pressing issue Denver voters are most concerned about is growth and development. Unfortunately, it's impossible to have a local politics conversation without someone throwing in their opinions about national politics. I believe, in this rare case, it's important we discuss politics here - necessary even (considering the fact that this is the best place to find our fellow YIMBY's) - and so the inevitable digressions into national politics are something we'll just have to endure along the way (and I do hope it ends quickly).

As for the Trump "debate" that cluttered up the joint weeks ago, that was largely my fault and I apologize. His election turned my world upside down, and I've been easily triggered by the mere mentioning of his name ever since. I've already resolved to bite my tongue around here from now on when it comes to that.

(On a side note, it's not just here this is happening; it's everywhere. I frequent multiple forums as I have multiple hobbies and interests. This country is freaking out right now politically and the visceral political rants are permeating all of my go-to message boards - even the absolutely non-political ones.)

Last edited by Sam Hill; Jun 6, 2019 at 1:41 AM.
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  #5932  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 1:37 AM
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If someone told me that I'm ever going to say this, I would tell them they are crazy. I am a gay immigrant, so everything about me just existing is political,
Yes indeed in some quarters you've got two strikes against you.

Yet somehow we survive and thrive as the finest melting pot in the world. Much of it is thanks to our constitution and especially the Fourteenth Amendment.

Only in America where one of the kids on the school bus may grow up and end up in prison while another kid on that same school bus might just grow up to be (America's 1st black) president (according to Brooks and Dunn).
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  #5933  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 1:48 AM
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Am I the only one that is wondering why 176 doesn't have a sales site anywhere?..... or did I miss it? Generally, you want to pre-sell some number of units before you break ground, no? Given the size of this project, I would expect there to be a page somewhere.....
In our new world of access to capital and equity these folks have the wherewith-all to proceed without presales.

According to the article - assuming things aren't delayed the typical 6 to 12 months - first units won't be available for occupancy until the first half of 2022.
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  #5934  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 1:59 AM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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In our new world of access to capital and equity these folks have the wherewith-all to proceed without presales.

According to the article - assuming things aren't delayed the typical 6 to 12 months - first units won't be available for occupancy until the first half of 2022.
Amacon initially planned to demolish Shelby's right after the super bowl. That date was pushed back and Amacon gave their official demolition notice a couple of months ago. I'm very ignorant to the inner workings of large scale condo tower financing but I assume that the initial delay might have been related to financing concerns. At any rate, this project is so much closer to getting off the ground than other large scale residential proposals this cycle, such as 650 17th or the Paradise living towers. That is why I'm uniquely excited about Block 176. That and the design is superb.
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  #5935  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
Amacon initially planned to demolish Shelby's right after the super bowl. That date was pushed back and Amacon gave their official demolition notice a couple of months ago. I'm very ignorant to the inner workings of large scale condo tower financing but I assume that the initial delay might have been related to financing concerns. At any rate, this project is so much closer to getting off the ground than other large scale residential proposals this cycle, such as 650 17th or the Paradise living towers. That is why I'm uniquely excited about Block 176. That and the design is superb.
I don't honestly know their specific situation but they seem to have access to necessary capital although specific timing can always be an issue.

On a less glamorous note

117 condos proposed for site in Santa Fe arts district.
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  #5936  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 5:04 AM
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We just had an election that basically came down to NIMBY vs YIMBY, as the pressing issue Denver voters are most concerned about is growth and development.
Agree and I started out specifically talking about the City of Denver and then the State of Colorado.

Speaking of politics and vexing issues that Denver will continue to be challenged by I found this Reuters piece about the homeless issue in Los Angeles (also covered by many outlets).

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN1T609L
Quote:
Nearly 22,000 people who were without a place to live were moved into permanent housing in 2018, up 23 percent from the year before, through efforts funded by a special voter-approved bond measure. But more than double that number have fallen into homelessness over the same period, LHSA said.
The acrimony and blame game are rampant in L.A.

I generally support Denver's approach to building 'transitional' housing but that won't solve the larger problem and too many choose homelessness as their lifestyle and challenge.

Then there's people like mishko27 ie a member of the immigrant class; seldom will you find them among the homeless. I leave it to others to draw there own conclusions.

Yes, a lot of it goes to alcohol, drug addiction and mental issues. I guess I'm just thankful that most immigrants don't have these same issues as trying to find employees who show up, let alone on time, is a constant challenge for many businesses.
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  #5937  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 12:07 PM
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too many choose homelessness as their lifestyle
Please don't anyone take this bait. ^

Now we're just veering off topic in a completely different direction - and for no reason. Maybe we should start a separate, Colorado local politics thread or something.
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  #5938  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 1:09 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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What civil projects are you guys most interested in? I-70, Medical Western Stock Show, 16th Street Mall, Denver International Airport, Colorado Convention Center, etc...
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  #5939  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 2:15 PM
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So, is Shelby's still in operation? Google doesn't say "permanently closed" yet, but I haven't passed by on 20th lately. Did that happy hour meetup go down yet? If not, how about tomorrow, 4:30?
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  #5940  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2019, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
What civil projects are you guys most interested in? I-70, Medical Western Stock Show, 16th Street Mall, Denver International Airport, Colorado Convention Center, etc...
Probably the 16th Street Mall and Convention Center for me, though in some ways I dread the start of t he 16th Street Mall construction. It will be quite a mess, and I regret the need to remove a 30 plus year old tree canopy. It's a necessary evil to revitalize the mall, but still sad.

DIA threatens to be another mess with the concrete problems and delay. That's too bad. If in fact the concrete didn't meet the original specs, I assume it's too late to sue whoever was responsible for that. DIA is of course the single most critical piece of infrastructure and public investment for the entire state, so this project needs to go well and hopefully any cost overruns will be manageable. The scandal around the convention center is another misfire that will likely add cost to that project. I wonder if the City could make a claim against Mortenson to recover any related costs arising from the need to re-bid the project?

Last edited by CherryCreek; Jun 6, 2019 at 3:16 PM.
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