CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7

[bgsrand]

(deleted)

[harryc]

June 3

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by prelude91

Do we really need another LSE (ie. souless highrises with little foot traffic/retail)?

I simply do not understand comments like this from an urban planning standpoint. I've said this before, but Michigan Ave and the Loop are RIGHT THERE. It's too close to go duplicating everything. And how many tourists/shoppers do you expect are going to walk several blocks east to go to a store that probably sells something they're standing right in front of? Which retailers are begging to hide their flagship store 4 blocks off Michigan?

LSE has a grocery store, drug store, a couple restaurants and schools. It's perfectly walkable and urban for daily life and doesn't need to draw huge crowds of shoppers/partiers to be "vibrant". How much retail does the Gold Coast have east of LaSalle? It's about the same distance from LaSalle to LSD as from Michigan to the center of LSE Park. Is anyone complaining that Astor St. doesn't have retail?

Successful cities provide a diversity of experiences. Some people want a bar in the lobby of their building and 2am crowds, but most people don't.

[r18tdi]

Crane going up at Marlowe.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by aaron38

I simply do not understand comments like this from an urban planning standpoint. I've said this before, but Michigan Ave and the Loop are RIGHT THERE. It's too close to go duplicating everything. And how many tourists/shoppers do you expect are going to walk several blocks east to go to a store that probably sells something they're standing right in front of? Which retailers are begging to hide their flagship store 4 blocks off Michigan?

LSE has a grocery store, drug store, a couple restaurants and schools. It's perfectly walkable and urban for daily life and doesn't need to draw huge crowds of shoppers/partiers to be "vibrant". How much retail does the Gold Coast have east of LaSalle? It's about the same distance from LaSalle to LSD as from Michigan to the center of LSE Park. Is anyone complaining that Astor St. doesn't have retail?

Successful cities provide a diversity of experiences. Some people want a bar in the lobby of their building and 2am crowds, but most people don't.

from my standpoint, its more a lament of the loss of fine-grained steetscapes. everythings a mega this, mega that. it makes the city a more boring place when you have one single use (and one single landlord or owner for that matter) taking up an entire city block.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

from my standpoint, its more a lament of the loss of fine-grained steetscapes. everythings a mega this, mega that. it makes the city a more boring place when you have one single use (and one single landlord or owner for that matter) taking up an entire city block.

I would flip your argument on its head and claim the exact opposite. When your goal is to have a city with seemingly one stable theme and plan, which is to include equal amounts of retail, office, residences, etc. throughout you create a city with no soul, and no unique characteristics. You just create an endless stream of the same shit over and over, with no reason for someone to go more than 3 blocks away from their house. Unless that's what you want...

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by aaron38

I simply do not understand comments like this from an urban planning standpoint. I've said this before, but Michigan Ave and the Loop are RIGHT THERE. It's too close to go duplicating everything. And how many tourists/shoppers do you expect are going to walk several blocks east to go to a store that probably sells something they're standing right in front of? Which retailers are begging to hide their flagship store 4 blocks off Michigan?

LSE has a grocery store, drug store, a couple restaurants and schools. It's perfectly walkable and urban for daily life and doesn't need to draw huge crowds of shoppers/partiers to be "vibrant". How much retail does the Gold Coast have east of LaSalle? It's about the same distance from LaSalle to LSD as from Michigan to the center of LSE Park. Is anyone complaining that Astor St. doesn't have retail?

Successful cities provide a diversity of experiences. Some people want a bar in the lobby of their building and 2am crowds, but most people don't.

From a retail standpoint, sure it would be dumb but from a restaurant, bar, etc standpoint? Sorry, but LSE is boring as all hell. Michigan Avenue south of the river has some stuff like that (CAA for example) but it still pales in comparison to many other areas of the city as far as restaurant type of uses go. There is literally no reason why LSE fails to have more restaurants, bars, etc. It's a complete cop out and crap that you have to walk 10-15+ minutes from the western edge of it before you are able to find something worth going out for. If your idea of vibrant is Michigan Avenue a few blocks south of the river after 10pm then I don't know what to tell you. I have had friends who lived in LSE and it is literally one of the most boring parts of the city that could have tons of stuff/is near other things. Maybe you live there and are used to it by now, but I've spent many a night there and there's no way I would ever live there unless they added more around it as far as restaurants, bars, etc go. From that perspective, it's a failure.

And you've obviously not spent enough time in the Gold Coast - when your boundaries are down to closer to Oak Street or Chicago Ave. Walk south of Division and there's actually a good amount of retail. But you know what? There's even more restaurants and bars. Unless your definition of Gold Coast is "between Division and North Ave" in which then you'd have to probably realize the boundaries of Gold Coast are larger than that.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by marothisu

...
Unless your definition of Gold Coast is "between Division and North Ave" in which then you'd have to probably realize the boundaries of Gold Coast are larger than that.

Even north of Division and east of Clark, there's Mario's, the Third Coast, the Pump Room, Hash House, Eduardo's, Zebra Lounge, Potash Market, 3 Arts Cafe. When I lived at Schiller and Dearborn, I enjoyed stopping in at Mario's after work. My then-roommate and I were eating there the evening after 9/11 that Bush announced the invasion of Afghanistan - it was a silent, community-feeling, patriotic moment, perhaps the last time during the Bush administration everyone, Republican, Democrat, or other, only felt "American" with no divisions as everyone in the restaurant stopped eating and focused on the televisions. Does LSE have anyplace like that?

And on just the west side of Clark you can add Elly's (for now), Tiparos, the returning Jewel, and of course the bars on Division itself and the restaurants on the south side of Division.

LSE doesn't seem to have as many places, imho.

[the urban politician]

Not sure I agree with the criticism of LSE.

You guys are discussing the commercial parts of the Gold Coast. But much of the GC is a sleepy urban enclave.

LSE is also much newer and still developing. Hell, Vista Tower is still being built and will have its own retail. Other towers with retail are still planned.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Crane going up at Marlowe.

Yep (sorry for the tight shot, I was too lazy too swap on a wider lens):


by me, on Flickr

Another section of their foundations:


me, on Flickr

[LouisVanDerWright]

There's a test rig and cassion rig on site at I believe carpenter and Lake, looks like this is about to start construction:



Curbed

One vendor village comin right up! (Or maybe I'm confusing this site with one of the 23.5 "8-12 story ye olde trendy warehouse" planned for the area)

[XIII]

Originally Posted by aaron38

I simply do not understand comments like this from an urban planning standpoint. I've said this before, but Michigan Ave and the Loop are RIGHT THERE. It's too close to go duplicating everything. And how many tourists/shoppers do you expect are going to walk several blocks east to go to a store that probably sells something they're standing right in front of? Which retailers are begging to hide their flagship store 4 blocks off Michigan?

LSE has a grocery store, drug store, a couple restaurants and schools. It's perfectly walkable and urban for daily life and doesn't need to draw huge crowds of shoppers/partiers to be "vibrant". How much retail does the Gold Coast have east of LaSalle? It's about the same distance from LaSalle to LSD as from Michigan to the center of LSE Park. Is anyone complaining that Astor St. doesn't have retail?

Successful cities provide a diversity of experiences. Some people want a bar in the lobby of their building and 2am crowds, but most people don't.

LSE has its own kind of thing going on. The residential portion is like a mini gold coast tucked between Michigan avenue and the city. Like the gold coast, there are a limited number of restaurants and bars with most being associated with hotels.

LSE and Illinois center also functions like a downtown conference center. The Hyatt, Fairmont, and Radisson Blu have a steady stream of conference attendees and the hotel bars in the area are almost always packed with them.

The retail critique is valid and seems to be due to the awful design of the market at lakeshore east. It doesn't interact with the parks (LSE or Daley), the neighborhood or the hotels. There was potential to have a way to draw people in there, but the design is so awful most people can't tell that it is any sort of retail beyond the curb. Loewenberg really should have handed that one off to someone who knew what they were doing.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Sorry, but LSE is boring as all hell ... I've spent many a night there and there's no way I would ever live there unless they added more around it as far as restaurants, bars, etc go.

Like I said, then don't live there. But by that standard most of Chicago's neighborhoods are boring as hell. Menomonee and Cleveland in Lincoln Park is about the same walk to the action as LSE is. So that's boring as hell and no one should live there? But plenty of people like it that way and land values are high. Clearly a lack of 3am drunks isn't driving people away. Most of my favorite nights in the city have been spent on quiet streets.

I fail to see why every single block needs to be an all night party zone when the market isn't demanding it. And why we use that as the definition of success/failure.

[Kngkyle]

I would wager that most people who live in LSE probably appreciate the relative peace and quiet and for many this was probably a key selling point. It's not like you have to walk far to be in the middle of everything. I definitely see the attraction in it.

[maru2501]

LSE has always seemed more like a Hong Kong model to me

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by marothisu

From a retail standpoint, sure it would be dumb but from a restaurant, bar, etc standpoint? Sorry, but LSE is boring as all hell. Michigan Avenue south of the river has some stuff like that (CAA for example) but it still pales in comparison to many other areas of the city as far as restaurant type of uses go. There is literally no reason why LSE fails to have more restaurants, bars, etc. It's a complete cop out and crap that you have to walk 10-15+ minutes from the western edge of it before you are able to find something worth going out for. If your idea of vibrant is Michigan Avenue a few blocks south of the river after 10pm then I don't know what to tell you. I have had friends who lived in LSE and it is literally one of the most boring parts of the city that could have tons of stuff/is near other things. Maybe you live there and are used to it by now, but I've spent many a night there and there's no way I would ever live there unless they added more around it as far as restaurants, bars, etc go. From that perspective, it's a failure.

Dude, you clearly don't understand the target audience of LSE. The people that live there are not exactly those trying to live in a big bar scene, and there are a few nice restaurants in LSE so I feel like you just haven't been there recently. You clearly aren't the target audience of LSE, so stop complaining that it doesn't fit your wants and wishes. The place is for retirees and small families, not bachelors trying to party, eat at a new restaurant every night, and then pick up chicks.

[Near North Resident]

Living near bars effing sucks

like seriously unless you're a total loser, once you're in your late 30's early 40's your priorities in life don't involve getting wasted all the time in your free time

I guarantee the average resident is probably 55+ in LSE possibly older

[the urban politician]

I love a cold brew or 4 as much as the next guy.

But living next to bars and clubs? You should've known me 15 years ago...

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

There's a test rig and cassion rig on site at I believe carpenter and Lake, looks like this is about to start construction:

One vendor village comin right up! (Or maybe I'm confusing this site with one of the 23.5 "8-12 story ye olde trendy warehouse" planned for the area)

I love how they "broke ground" on this thing in March...

Also, bKL's SCIO tower for Ashland and Taylor:


via Curbed

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

I would flip your argument on its head and claim the exact opposite. When your goal is to have a city with seemingly one stable theme and plan, which is to include equal amounts of retail, office, residences, etc. throughout you create a city with no soul, and no unique characteristics. You just create an endless stream of the same shit over and over, with no reason for someone to go more than 3 blocks away from their house. Unless that's what you want...

who said anything about any of that? my cricism is knocking down something that has 5 or 10 uses and just as many owners and replacing it with something that has one use and owner.

im talking about going from this



to this



while LSE and some of these other developments are going up on currently vacant land, that dosent mean theyre approaching or tying together their connection to the urban fabric any better.