Electric Vehicles

[bomberjet]

The batteries, the batteries, I know.

It all depends on what you're comparing. Speaking to current vehicles only.

Remember when vehicles first came out and then for the next 100 years all the way to the 90's, they literally spewed fuel out the tail pipe. Never mind the terrible emissions they produced.

Citing an article from Saudi Arabia. Might as well let Jason Kenny dictate policy for us.

Material supply for batteries is an issue though. I'd believe through innovation this problem can be solved like anything else.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by eman

I wanted to start a thread about electric vehicles. Electric transportation is growing like never before especially thanks to Tesla showing how easy it is. The Model 3 has been selling really well and there are now over 300 Teslas in Manitoba. I do own a Model 3, but this thread should be open to all EV transportation issues, including busses, e-bikes. I am disappointed that electric busses were tested and built here, but Winnipeg Transit couldn't bother to buy any.

Most EV owner's charge at home with 240v chargers installed by an electrician. My condo has heated indoor parking and I charge 110v. All new homes and multifamily buildings should have charge stations or roughed in electrical. Maybe this thread could document buildings that have EV charging built in and advocate for more? My previous apartment had 110v block heater outlets that only put out power when temps were cold. I am not expert on everything EV, but wanted to get the conversation going and cut emissions.

Of course this comes at a financial cost which homebuyers will have to be willing to accept. It will make home ownership slightly more expensive (purchase price) and there are those who will argue against that.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Biff

We have two on our street and were looking into purchasing the all wheel drive Model 3. Unfortunately my wife's car just got totaled on Friday so we will have to speed up the purchase decision likely putting the Tesla out of contention. You still pay a premium over a comparable car, but Tesla says the Model 3 will save you $11k in gas over 6 years.

If whomever was driving your car is found to be less than 50% at fault you are eligible for 30 days of rental vehicle coverage. It also does not need to be 30 consecutive days. And if you are not at fault you do not require the optional loss of use coverage, that only comes into play if you are 50% or more at fault.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by CoryB

If whomever was driving your car is found to be less than 50% at fault you are eligible for 30 days of rental vehicle coverage. It also does not need to be 30 consecutive days. And if you are not at fault you do not require the optional loss of use coverage, that only comes into play if you are 50% or more at fault.

Yeah, it is 100% the other driver. We will be getting a rental tonight. Tough timing with the kids going back to school this week. Thanks for the info.

[roccerfeller]

^ Biff sorry to hear about your wife's car. Hope she's ok. Accidents suck

I am 99% on board that my next car will be a Tesla. I'll be buying in 2022 sometime, likely summer, when my current lease is up

Anyone with a Tesla right now able to comment on how the car lasts in the winter? I've heard it drops to 1/3 capacity though I don't know if those are older models

My time in the prairies, be it AB or SK or MB, is unfortunately coming to an end this year, not sure where I'll be in the country in 2023 when its time to move again, but if Im back in the prairies (which is entirely an option) I'd like to know how it performs in the winters here

Otherwise, I'm pretty much decided that a Tesla will be my next vehicle

[DonaldSmith]

FYI here is the electric car inventory in Winnipeg

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Aj4/edit#gid=0

[drew]

Wow - A new Nissan Leaf is a full $20 to $30k more than a comparable ICE, basically double the price.

That kind of disparity needs to really come down in order for EVs to become more mainstream.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by drew

Wow - A new Nissan Leaf is a full $20 to $30k more than a comparable ICE, basically double the price.

That kind of disparity needs to really come down in order for EVs to become more mainstream.

There is a federal rebate of $5,000. Not sure if that has been applied to the above list or not.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by DonaldSmith

FYI here is the electric car inventory in Winnipeg

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Aj4/edit#gid=0

Thanks for posting that spreadsheet - it gives a pretty good overview of what's out there, other than pricing for new Teslas. I was also surprised by the cost of a new Nissan Leaf - significantly more than I'd expected. A Leaf at $55K makes the lightly used Audi E-tron look pretty attractive for $20K more. I know, apples & oranges...

Personally, I'm still waiting for that long-awaited breakthrough in battery technology that will drastically increase range before taking the plunge into EVs. For me, the convenience of being able to drive from Saskatoon to Edmonton non-stop on a tank of fuel is of great value. I'm one of those guys focused on "making good time" when on a road trip and a stop of even 30 minutes to re-charge would just drive me around the bend. That, and the ability to travel into relatively remote parts of the rural prairies without worry of being unable to find a suitable re-charging depot still skews me to ICE over EV.

I see an EV as a great city commuter but it doesn't fill my needs as a daily driver - yet - but that day is coming.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Crisis

I see an EV as a great city commuter but it doesn't fill my needs as a daily driver - yet - but that day is coming.

It seems to me that EVs are best suited to a very particular type of driver. I have two vehicles, one is a SUV that I use for shopping runs and out of town trips. An EV could work, but would not be ideal. My second car is the one that would make more sense as a EV as it never leaves the Winnipeg area. In an average year it puts on 4,000 km max. I haven't even cracked 2,000 km in 2020 yet. There's no way the fuel savings would justify the incremental cost of going electric.

Bottom line, an EV is an appealing idea on some level but the numbers don't add up for me. I guess it makes sense for someone who does a lot of driving but mainly in and around the city and not so much long highway drives.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Personally, I'm still waiting for that long-awaited breakthrough in battery technology that will drastically increase range before taking the plunge into EVs. For me, the convenience of being able to drive from Saskatoon to Edmonton non-stop on a tank of fuel is of great value. I'm one of those guys focused on "making good time" when on a road trip and a stop of even 30 minutes to re-charge would just drive me around the bend. That, and the ability to travel into relatively remote parts of the rural prairies without worry of being unable to find a suitable re-charging depot still skews me to ICE over EV.

I see an EV as a great city commuter but it doesn't fill my needs as a daily driver - yet - but that day is coming.

It's not a pure electric vehicle, rather a plug-in hybrid like the Chevy Volt, but the Toyota Prius Prime has a estimated range of ~1000 km.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by zalf

It's not a pure electric vehicle, rather a plug-in hybrid like the Chevy Volt, but the Toyota Prius Prime has a estimated range of ~1000 km.

Yeah, but it's a Prius.... that's not gonna happen.

[eman]

California to phase out sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035


Excellent news.

The average car produces 4.6 tons of carbon per year, so real action is required. And electric cars are better and faster.







https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima...electric-cars/

[The Unknown Poster]

I love the idea of a Tesla. Out of my price range but maybe one day. I wonder about our weather though. How does a cold snap of -30 days for a couple weeks impact the range?

And while you save on gas, what is the cost on your hydro bill to charge up every night? I think they look cool as hell and would love one.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

And while you save on gas, what is the cost on your hydro bill to charge up every night?

I don't have a Tesla but from what I've read the cost of ownership (gas, maintenance, etc.) is undoubtedly lower than a similar gas-fuelled luxury vehicle. The number one issue is the large capital outlay purchasing a Tesla requires. If you can foot that bill you can save a ton.

https://infotel.ca/newsitem/this-is-...terior/it62258

^^^I came across this article when I was researching commuting in BC (where my wife and I are moving this month).

[eman]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

I love the idea of a Tesla. Out of my price range but maybe one day. I wonder about our weather though. How does a cold snap of -30 days for a couple weeks impact the range?

And while you save on gas, what is the cost on your hydro bill to charge up every night? I think they look cool as hell and would love one.

I went for a road trip in January -27C and yes the range dropped by about half. With supercharging stations that won't matter because stations are close enough together.

I am in a condo plugging in 110v with heated indoor parking. The power is part of condo fees that I have to pay anyway so the electricity is free. Level 1 charges only 8km per hour, most nights I still have a full battery in the morning. I haven't done the math to calculate the actual dollar cost of charging at home, but our rates in Manitoba are pretty low. It basically works out of 3 to 4 times cheaper than gas. Many public chargers are free. When you add in your free charging your true cost is even lower. Plus no oil changes ever. Just tires and washer fluid. Brakes pads will last as long as the car does because you almost always use regenerative braking.

[Biff]

I believe Tesla claims it will save you $11k over 6 or 7 years. We looked at one as an option but at $65k for the all wheel drive Model 3, the math didn't add up for us over getting another A4. The A4 was essentially $10-15k cheaper. We thought that combined with the fact that a Tesla (or EV) will likely have better range in 5 or 6 years, it will make sense for the next ride.

[drew]

Originally Posted by eman

I went for a road trip in January -27C and yes the range dropped by about half. With supercharging stations that won't matter because stations are close enough together.

I am in a condo plugging in 110v with heated indoor parking. The power is part of condo fees that I have to pay anyway so the electricity is free. Level 1 charges only 8km per hour, most nights I still have a full battery in the morning. I haven't done the math to calculate the actual dollar cost of charging at home, but our rates in Manitoba are pretty low. It basically works out of 3 to 4 times cheaper than gas. Many public chargers are free. When you add in your free charging your true cost is even lower. Plus no oil changes ever. Just tires and washer fluid. Brakes pads will last as long as the car does because you almost always use regenerative braking.

Once EV's become more mainstream - the charging stations will cease to be "free". As will chargers provided for apartment/condo parking.

The costs are real, and once they really start to add up, they will get passed down.

The problem with EVs still remains that the difference you pay "pound for pound" for an EV car with a comparable ICE alternative still exceeds the value for fuel and maintenance over the time that you will own the car. That needs to change and especially the used market - where used ICE's will continue to be a bargain in comparison to EV's for a LONG time - regardless of the laws being passed in California.

EVs are currently relegated to people who can afford to throw that extra money away for the green cause, or EV fanboys/girls.

[CoryB]

In terms of plug-in vehicles, it is really hard to justify the cost of a Tesla v a Prius or Rav4 Prime. Also both of those are plug-in hybrid so you still drive around with what is essentially a gas powered generator onboard for when you need more range than your battery has. Yes, the pure battery range is significantly less than a Tesla but reality is for a large portion of potential urban customers the pure electric range will cover most single day driving scenarios outside of commercial use such as a taxi or courier.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by eman

California to phase out sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035

Considering the primary Tesla factory is located in California I am surprised that both this hasn't happened sooner and that it hasn't raised conflict of interest concerns. There is also a potential tourism impact here as I would assume as the date nears gas stations will start to close up due to the shrinking customer base. That could then drive up prices at remaining stations. To minimize tourism impact there will also need to be a lot of planning put into which stations need to be maintained and potential government subsidies to keep them open.