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  #181  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2007, 10:10 PM
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Feds might pick up 80 percent of replacement I-5 bridge

Monday, October 15, 2007
By DON HAMILTON Columbian Staff Writer

U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary E. Peters said this morning that the federal government could shoulder as much as 80 percent of the cost of a new Columbia River bridge.

"It could be as much as 80 percent if it qualifies as a project we call 'federally aid eligible,'" Peters told reporters after touring the Columbia Sportswear's distribution center in North Portland. "It could be up to 80 percent of the total cost."

The 80 percent figure is at odds with what local members of Congress have suggested as a likely federal share of a new bridge. U.S. Rep. Brian Baird, D-Wash., said he hopes the feds will pay two-thirds but that 50 percent may be more realistic considering demands on the federal budget.

The exact level of federal support won't be known until next fall year when Congress develops its new six-year transportation spending plan.

The bistate Columbia River Crossing is developing plans for a new bridge across the Columbia River . Peters said the federal government wants a project with room for more cars and trucks as well bicycles, pedestrians and mass transit.

During her visit, Peters spoke with Columbia Sportswear CEO Tim Boyle who told her I-5 traffic is critical to his company's efficiency because almost all of the clothes sent from the distribution center go by truck.

Peters endorsed the process under way to develop a new bridge, pointing to the federal designation of a stretch of I-5 as one of six "corridors of the future." The designation provides $15 million in federal funding to help ease congestion but also provides for faster federal review.

"We will work with planners from Washington and Oregon to help design a new bridge that meets the community's needs and reflects its values, handling more cars and trucks, as well as transit, bicycle, and pedestrian traffic. Our commitment is to be more than a donor. We will be a partner in helping this community build a bridge to even greater prosperity. We want this corridor to serve as a source of opportunity and prosperity, not as a cause for frustration, fumes, and failure."

http://www.columbian.com/news/localN...I-5-bridge.cfm
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  #182  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2007, 10:25 PM
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more in tomorrow's oregonian
New Columbia River bridge could cost $4.2 billion[/B][/SIZE]
Posted by jholman October 15, 2007 14:55PM
A new Interstate 5 bridge over the Columbia River could cost $3.1 billion to $4.2 billion, according to estimates released Monday afternoon.

A task force of Oregon and Washington transportation officials is studying options for replacing the bridge, considered the worst chokepoint in the Portland area and one of the worst sections of Interstate 5 from Mexico to Canada.

The Columbia River Crossing project could replace the existing six-lane bridge with new spans containing five or six lanes in each direction, plus room for either light rail or bus rapid transit. Toll charges might apply. In another option, the existing bridge might be used, though its two outmoded spans date to 1917 and 1958.

The consequences of doing nothing could be staggering. According to projections, the rush hour will last 16 hours in 2030, leaving a narrow window of travel for freight traffic, which is expected to double. The accident rate will get worse, compounding the congestion and safety problems, the task force staff says.

The staff has recommended that three options be explored in the next step, the draft environmental impact study:
-- A "no build" option.
-- A replacement bridge with light rail.
-- A replacement bridge with a dedicated bus lane. The existing bridges would be removed.

To see an illustration of a proposed bridge route click here.

Over the past two years, the task force has narrowed the options from 23 river crossings, including bridges and tunnels, and 14 transit alternatives. Project planners had previously estimated costs of $2 billion to $6 billion.

Look for more coverage in Tuesday's Oregonian.
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  #183  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2007, 10:30 PM
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  #184  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2007, 10:59 PM
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How about building a bypass? Not all traffic crossing the Columbia is bound for Portland or Vancouver. Build a bridge between Woodland and St. Helens and have have that linked to Washington County creating a western bypass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
Just take a look @ I-5 in Seattle. People in Portland would freak at the continual addition of freeway lanes.....

Where are those additional lanes? Please tell me because I am sick of getting stuck in I-5 traffic in Seattle where it gets reduced to just two lanes. Maybe back in the 80's they added lanes after the 90 merger, but they built the convention center on top of the freeway, hiding the sucker. Both cities are pretty regressive when it comes to roads and highways.
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  #185  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 2:38 AM
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This mega-bridge is going to destroy N/NE Portland. I say no-build or fewer vehicle lanes. We know the history of adding freeway capacity too well. Bring on the lawsuits and/or Metro veto!
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  #186  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 3:16 AM
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They added lanes from Southcenter South to Federal Way. They added lanes in the downtown Tacoma area. This was all done is the last 5 years. And Southcenter north to dt Seattle...North of Seattle towards Lynnwood....I know you will think I am an idiot but when I lived in Seattle I considered much of the area as a part of the whole I-5 corridor from Tacoma to North Seattle....

Last edited by PacificNW; Oct 16, 2007 at 5:13 AM.
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  #187  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:21 AM
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I hope that Portland isn't expected to pay for 5 miles of rebuilding I-5 through Vancouver. That's where most of the cost comes from!
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  #188  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tworivers View Post
This mega-bridge is going to destroy N/NE Portland. I say no-build or fewer vehicle lanes. We know the history of adding freeway capacity too well. Bring on the lawsuits and/or Metro veto!
There really is no point of adding 5-6 lanes on the bridge when it narrows again to 3 lanes two miles later at Columbia Blvd. All this is going to do is to move traffic onto Interstate and MLK. I can even see droves of commuters making their way through North Portland over the St. Johns bridge and back roads to Washington County. The problem is that the jobs are in Washington County and the cheapest housing in Clark County. Congestion and gas prices are going to make Clark County a lot less attractive in the future to many.
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  #189  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 3:00 PM
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...which is why we need a direct link between Clark and Washington Counties (and gas prices won't get so high that it wouldn't be more expensive to live in Clark county than say... Multnomah...).
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  #190  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 3:32 PM
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No we don't need a direct link from WA to Clark county. I'm not subsidizing or trashing forest park for clark county resident living choices. If you choose to live in Clark county and commute to WA county to save a few bucks then live with the commute as is. If anything what Oregon should do is minimize the impact of all those cars pouring into neighborhood streets by putting roads on diets. Start cutting lanes down with nice looking traffic calming. All wide roads do is enable bad choices.
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  #191  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:35 PM
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This was just emailed to me:





I agree with Cab concerning Forest Park...although something needs to be done with the I-5 bridge and bottleneck in No. Portland.

Last edited by PacificNW; Oct 16, 2007 at 5:50 PM.
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  #192  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab View Post
Start cutting lanes down with nice looking traffic calming. All wide roads do is enable bad choices.
having a stick but not a carrot is bad policy. Weening people from their cars is like asking somebody to stop consuming sugar. It can be done but it easiest if the person doing it has a positive motivation to do so.

Building a wider bridge is folly. What we need to do is provide a transit alternative that is fast and convenient. Interstate MAX isn't going to be that solution unless traffic gets really bad.
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  #193  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlov's Dog View Post
Interstate MAX isn't going to be that solution unless traffic gets really bad.
Traffic is really bad right now. Interstate MAX to Vancouver is long overdue, should've been built along with the rest of the Yellow line.
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  #194  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 8:28 PM
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Here's the full story from todays O

Newest I-5 bridge estimate $4 billion
Traffic - Bridge backers want to get the project organized soon, so they can acquire federal funding
Tuesday, October 16, 2007
DYLAN RIVERA
The Oregonian

A new I-5 bridge over the Columbia River on Monday edged closer to reality as Oregon and Washington officials estimated a cost of roughly $4 billion for a span that would soar high enough to clear river barges while carrying up to 12 lanes of traffic and a separate rail or bus line.

That would dramatically eclipse the current six-lane pair of lift bridges, which shut down to allow river traffic to pass, and whose narrow roadway creates the Portland-Vancouver region's worst bottleneck.

At stake are commuter nerves but also segments of the West Coast economy, which depends on free-flowing truck traffic on I-5. Some 135,000 cars and trucks are slowed each day at the Columbia crossing.

Top regional and national officials reckon that if nothing is done to fix the crossing, the weekday Portland-Vancouver rush hour could total 20 hours a day by 2030 -- this at a time when freight traffic is expected to double.

Monday's cost estimates carried key surprises:

**The bridge and related highway expansions would cost between $3.1 billion and $4.2 billion less than the maximum $6 billion forecasted earlier.

**A MAX light-rail extension across the bridge would cost just 5 percent more than bus rapid transit boosting the Portland-and-Vancouver-based hopes of rail supporters but working against bus transit advocates, most of them in outer Clark County.

**Building an entirely new span would cost about 5 percent more than reusing the existing half-century-old spans, a strategy that some officials had hoped would generate significant savings. That may throw more support behind a completely new bridge tall enough to clear river barges and sailboats.

**Construction of a new bridge could start by late 2010 if officials can settle on a plan by next summer -- and if they get approval from Congress in 2009. The first cars could cross in 2015, with demolition done by 2017.

The lower estimates came as a relief to Hal Dengerink, co-chairman of a 39-member Columbia River Crossing Task Force.

"We knew the original guesses people had out there were just that," Dengerink said. "But it does not displease me that they were lower than people had suggested before."

Miles-long congestion

Ideas for an I-5 fix have been floated over the decades, but only in the past few years have talks gotten serious. One complicating factor is that I-5 bottlenecks exist for a few miles on both sides of the river. Those need to be fixed as part of any bridge expansion.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary Peters visited Portland to endorse the Columbia River effort and encourage private sector investment and tolling options. She suggested the federal government might pay as much as 80 percent of the project cost, but that is far from certain.

Planning now centers on five alternatives. They include: build nothing; replace the existing bridge with a new one, including either light-rail or bus lanes; use the existing Interstate 5 bridge spans to carry north-bound traffic and build a new narrow span to carry southbound traffic including trains or buses. All alternatives promise better pedestrian and bicycle access.

The public can hear details at two open houses this week, and the task force will meet next month to consider the information.

By February, planners expect to single out one bridge plan as the locally preferred alternative. A 60-day comment period will follow, when city, regional and state officials can offer amendments.

By August, transportation officials hope to have a package ready for the federal government -- a crucial time before Congress returns in 2009 to craft a six-year bill that authorizes transportation spending nationwide.

The impact of doing nothing could be staggering, officials say. Projections show weekday congestion could rise to seven hours a day southbound and 13 hours northbound in 2030, and the accident rate will get worse, compounding the congestion and safety problems.

Light-rail questions

The MAX light-rail system remains a sticking point. Vancouver-area voters rejected a MAX proposal in the late 1990s, but recent polls show support for light rail and City Council members have added their endorsement.

Monday's estimates showed building for bus rapid transit, with its own lanes to avoid car traffic, would cost between $460 million and $990 million. Building light rail would cost between $530 million and $1.17 billion.

The difference between the estimates on each amount to $70 million to $180 million -- or about 5 percent of a $4.2 billion project.

Both bus rapid transit and rail would need new lanes built, said John Osborn, co-director of the Columbia River Crossing. But a bus line would need eight transit stations, while a light-rail line would need only seven because it could use the existing Expo Center rail stop.

Buses would need wider, costlier lanes to make room for driver error that's not an issue with rail, Osborn said. Because buses carry fewer passengers than MAX trains, the states would have to buy more of them and hire more operators than with rail, he said.

Steve Stuart, a Clark County commissioner who sits on the task force, said the cost figures favor those who want light rail. But he has reserved judgment.

"There have been people on both sides of the river saying, 'It's light rail or nothing,' " Stuart said. "It's going to be really important to flesh out why those numbers are what they are, because there will be those who question it."

Some task force members insisted earlier this year that analysts consider reusing the existing spans, which were opened in 1917 and 1958. That would save $160 million to $220 million -- a relatively low figure, because the existing spans would need earthquake-proofing, Osborn said.

Portland City Commissioner Sam Adams, a task force member, said the estimates are still too preliminary. Engineers say they are based on less than "10 percent" engineering of the project.

"We're still in the infancy of figuring out the true total cost for this project," Adams said. "There are so many design and alignment considerations that have to be made that this gives us some shape, but we still have a long ways to go."

Dylan Rivera: 503-221-8532
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...l=7&thispage=1
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  #195  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2007, 9:30 PM
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  #196  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 4:27 AM
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Crossing group suggests replacing bridge, adding light rail


One of the possible bridge options being considered.

(PuyoPiyo's speaking: you can look at the map click this link)
http://www.columbian.com/documents/newbridge.pdf

Wednesday, November 21, 2007
By DON HAMILTON, Columbian Staff Writer
Light rail through downtown Vancouver and a new Interstate 5 Bridge to replace the old one are the preliminary choices for a new way across the Columbia River.
The Columbia River Crossing issued draft findings about major choices for what could be a $4.2 billion project. The findings were prepared for next Tuesday's meeting of the 39-member Crossing task force.
These findings by the staff are not final but describe what the data collected over the last two years shows and strongly suggest what the final decisions may be.
"This foreshadows what to expect and highlights what we know now," said Danielle Cogan, communications officer for 39-member project. "Now we have significant data that will show us which options will best serve the public."
Here are a few highlights.

The bridge. The project prefers replacing the existing bridge to adding a supplemental structure. A replacement would be 10 to 15 percent cheaper and perform better for congestion relief, traffic capacity, safety, seismic vulnerability, future development, river navigation and the impact on Hayden Island.
Mass transit: The data showed a light rail link over the bridge to the MAX Yellow Line at the Expo Center in Portland would be more reliable, attract more riders, offer faster travel times and cost 25 to 50 percent less to operate than bus rapid transit, which is a bus on a dedicated lane. Light rail, though, would cost 20 to 30 percent more to build.
The route: A 3.4-mile alignment through downtown Vancouver to the Lincoln neighborhood would cost less to build than a route along Interstate 5 and integrate well with local residents and businesses, the project found. The alternative would cost more and require eight months more to build.
On Feb. 1, the crossing staff will release both its locally preferred alternative and its draft environmental impact statement, two crucial bureaucratic steps.
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  #197  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 4:33 AM
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I think this picture from ^^^ are really awesome! Just imagine you driving on the bridge viewing more rise around downtown Vancouver.

The only thing I am kinda disappoiment is that there is no tower on the bridge like we are having right now...
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  #198  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 10:06 AM
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Sorry, but that rendering is about as inspiring as the Glenn Jackson Bridge. And why the hell do they have to tear down the existing bridges? They're perfectly fine structurally, and still worth keeping as local access to Hayden Island from both sides of the river. Plus, wouldn't it cost more to REMOVE it than to just maintain it as-is?
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  #199  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 5:10 PM
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^^^No, I didn't mean the bridge does look good, I mean is that while we have that bridge with towers, it's hard to see the entire of downtown Vancouver while driving on the bridge. That's why I thought it's kinda kool, but yea I agree with you as I just said that I was kinda disappoiment that there is no tower on the bridge like we are having right now.

If they think it's the best and they have money, then I don't have really problem.. But I was just disappoiment about that there is no towers on the bridge like we have right now.
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  #200  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 7:08 PM
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Light rail, new bridge top choices

Thursday, November 22, 2007
By DON HAMILTON, Columbian Staff Writer

Light rail through downtown Vancouver and a new Interstate 5 Bridge to replace the old one are the preliminary choices for a new way across the Columbia River.

The Columbia River Crossing task force issued draft findings this week for what could be a $4.2 billion project. In all, the task force released 282 pages of data and findings for use in Tuesday’s meeting.

The staff findings are still a long way from a final decision. But the results clearly point to the conclusions drawn from several years of data collection and strongly suggest what the final decisions may be.

"This foreshadows what to expect and highlights what we know now," said Danielle Cogan, communications officer for 39-member project.
Here are a few highlights of the findings.

The bridge. The project staff prefers replacing the old bridge to adding a supplemental structure. A replacement would be 10 percent to 15 percent cheaper, the report said, and do a better job responding to concerns about congestion relief, traffic capacity, traffic safety, seismic stability, future development, river navigation and the impact on Hayden Island.
The alternative of keeping the old bridge, the project found, would disrupt downtown Vancouver traffic by closing the intersection of Sixth and Washington streets and overburdening Columbia Street, backing up the downtown traffic flow.

Mass transit: The data showed a light-rail link with the MAX Yellow Line at the Expo Center in Portland would be more reliable, attract more riders, attract more investment, offer faster travel times and cost 25 percent to 50 percent less to operate than bus rapid transit, a bus with a dedicated lane. Light rail, though, would cost 20 percent to 30 percent more to build.
Once outside the bridge area, the report said, a bus would have to travel with general traffic and experience the same congestion delays as everyone else, creating difficulties maintaining reliable service.

The route: A 3.4-mile alignment through downtown Vancouver to the Lincoln neighborhood, the report found, would cost less than the alternative, a route along Interstate 5, and it would integrate well with local residents and businesses. The alternative, a route along the east side of I-5, would cost more and require eight months more to build.

A downtown alignment also would reduce traffic capacity on Main Street north of Fourth Plain, could mean peak-hour parking prohibitions, more one-way streets, and improved traffic signal timing.

A key element in easing I-5 congestion isn’t related to the bridge project. Oregon plans to widen the southbound I-5 bottleneck at Delta Park from two to three lanes starting this spring.

Still unclear, though, is a definitive way to pay for the project, estimated at $3.1 billion to $4.2 billion. That price range represents the cost of the whole project, including six rebuilt interchanges in a five-mile stretch of I-5, the mass transit component and the bridge itself. The figures represent not today’s dollars but the cost for 2010 to 2017, a possible construction window.

Many variables can still change the overall cost, including inflation, the demand for materials, labor and the availability of funds. Other delays could come from an inadvertent archaeological discovery, additional environmental work or problems in working in the river itself.

Although no specifics have been issued, planners will be looking for money from the federal government, the two state governments, local residents in both Portland and Vancouver and tolls, especially tolls.

Even now, nearly three years after the task force first assembled, many bureaucratic hoops remain. The route to final approval involves three local agencies that will be asked to approve the recommendation sometime in the spring of 2008. These are the city of Vancouver, C-Tran and the Southwest Washington Regional Transportation Council. Also asked to ratify the decision of the task force will be the two states, along with the city of Portland, TriMet and Metro.

Directors hope to get the project before Congress by August for inclusion in the 2009-14 renewal of the federal transportation spending package.

Cogan said the findings released this week are not at all final but represent conclusions, although preliminary, of the staff.

"Now we have significant data," she said, "that will show us which options will best serve the public."
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