Phoenix Area Stadium and Arena News - Page 53

ASU Diablo · #**1041** Posted **Dec 6, 2023, 5:07 PM**

Lots of smoke swirling around about a new potential arena site in N Phoenix / Scottsdale area. I would imagine it would have to be w/in Phoenix City Limits to avoid any Scottsdale NIMBY'ism and/or height concerns. So my best guess...NEC of 101 and 56th St perhaps?? Plenty of state land up there right?

https://arizonasports.com/story/3539...-phoenix-land/

Obadno · #**1042** Posted **Dec 6, 2023, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Lots of smoke swirling around about a new potential arena site in N Phoenix / Scottsdale area. I would imagine it would have to be w/in Phoenix City Limits to avoid any Scottsdale NIMBY'ism and/or height concerns. So my best guess...NEC of 101 and 56th St perhaps?? Plenty of state land up there right?

https://arizonasports.com/story/3539...-phoenix-land/

What happened to the Mesa plan did that implode now too? what did I miss sorry Ive been out of town.

CrestedSaguaro · #**1043** Posted **Dec 6, 2023, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Lots of smoke swirling around about a new potential arena site in N Phoenix / Scottsdale area. I would imagine it would have to be w/in Phoenix City Limits to avoid any Scottsdale NIMBY'ism and/or height concerns. So my best guess...NEC of 101 and 56th St perhaps?? Plenty of state land up there right?

https://arizonasports.com/story/3539...-phoenix-land/

That would be my guess as well. I was looking around the area on Google Maps last night and really couldn't find anywhere else it would fit in and not be stopped by Scottsdale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno

What happened to the Mesa plan did that implode now too? what did I miss sorry Ive been out of town.

I'm thinking they couldn't get a good timeline setup with Mesa or the owner of the gravel pit didn't want to sell? Will be interesting to see what comes out over the next couple of weeks.

ASU Diablo · #**1044** Posted **Dec 6, 2023, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

I'm thinking they couldn't get a good timeline setup with Mesa or the owner of the gravel pit didn't want to sell? Will be interesting to see what comes out over the next couple of weeks.

Saw something online that Meruelo still plans on moving forward w/ that Mesa land for other development purposes. Who knows if true but he's been busy especially if you consider the other Reno project that he has planned...

IndyAZ · #**1045** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 1:10 AM**

I've been trying to figure this out since news started to break 2 days ago. Reports say they are trying to finalize the purchase and the property is ready to go, which leads me to believe it is not State Land since that can take easily over a year plus timeline to get the parcel to auction.

Only owned portions of land in the area are Mayo (definitely not happening), City North (multiple projects in development and seems tight), or parcel that recently sold a year or two ago at NEC of Mayo and 64th Street (slightly under 40 acres/small side). Cavasson seems like it could work since it has entitlements already in place, but that is in Scottsdale not Phoenix. Unless everyone is assuming its the 101 and its actually someplace like Paradise Valley Mall (also within PHX next to Scottsdale/PV).

ASUSunDevil · #**1046** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 1:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyAZ

parcel that recently sold a year or two ago at NEC of Mayo and 64th Street (slightly under 40 acres/small side).

Have to imagine it's this location. The Tempe site was 46 acres.

Talking Stick would have been great, but it must have been way too complicated with it being tribal land.

A total failure by Tempe becomes a huge win for N PHX/Scottsdale. I hope we get the same architectural look that was planned for Tempe. The arena will look amazing from those PHX Open blimp shots every February.

N830MH · #**1047** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 1:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Lots of smoke swirling around about a new potential arena site in N Phoenix / Scottsdale area. I would imagine it would have to be w/in Phoenix City Limits to avoid any Scottsdale NIMBY'ism and/or height concerns. So my best guess...NEC of 101 and 56th St perhaps?? Plenty of state land up there right?

https://arizonasports.com/story/3539...-phoenix-land/

Actually, that’s very near Mayo Hospital. It’s on Loop 101 and 56th St. I don’t ever think they build an arena. It could be big problem for them. Lots of people who live in Desert Ridge. Traffic could be jams. Way too much traffic!

ASU Diablo · #**1048** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Have to imagine it's this location. The Tempe site was 46 acres.

Talking Stick would have been great, but it must have been way too complicated with it being tribal land.

A total failure by Tempe becomes a huge win for N PHX/Scottsdale. I hope we get the same architectural look that was planned for Tempe. The arena will look amazing from those PHX Open blimp shots every February.

Agreed. I'm w/ IndyAZ on this. NEC of 64th St/Mayo is the more likely spot.

The Coyotes already said the plans/look was basically going to remain the same and will simply get reconfigured based on whatever location/parcel gets selected.

Mr.RE · #**1049** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Agreed. I'm w/ IndyAZ on this. NEC of 64th St/Mayo is the more likely spot.

The Coyotes already said the plans/look was basically going to remain the same and will simply get reconfigured based on whatever location/parcel gets selected.

It's not that location. That land was purchased by an apartment developer. My money is on NEC or NWC of 56th & 101. Mainly because it's adjacent to Desert Ridge/City North retail, future apartment's and commercial office and a large Resort which would mean Coyotes can get away with not building as much of those uses.

ASU Diablo · #**1050** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 5:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

It's not that location. That land was purchased by an apartment developer. My money is on NEC or NWC of 56th & 101. Mainly because it's adjacent to Desert Ridge/City North retail, future apartment's and commercial office and a large Resort which would mean Coyotes can get away with not building as much of those uses.

But Coyotes ownership has said multiple times that they want to build ALL of those uses so that they can make money as simply building the arena only will not generate the revenue desired or make the numbers "work". Same reason all these professional team owners are looking for building all mixed-uses/hotels/restaurants, in addition, to their arenas.

That site is a possibility and that's what I was thinking at first too, but it being state land is what is making me think it may not be it. Coyotes need to move FAST on this and break ground ASAP and you know the state moves at a glacial pace. I guess it's not even guaranteed that they will get the land as it will go to public auction and then may get outbid. My 2 cents...

Mr.RE · #**1051** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

But Coyotes ownership has said multiple times that they want to build ALL of those uses so that they can make money as simply building the arena only will not generate the revenue desired or make the numbers "work". Same reason all these professional team owners are looking for building all mixed-uses/hotels/restaurants, in addition, to their arenas.

That site is a possibility and that's what I was thinking at first too, but it being state land is what is making me think it may not be it. Coyotes need to move FAST on this and break ground ASAP and you know the state moves at a glacial pace. I guess it's not even guaranteed that they will get the land as it will go to public auction and then may get outbid. My 2 cents...

The NWC is nearly 20-acres owned by a private developer that has sat on it for years and is sufficient size to build an arena. It appears to already be zoned for that use so they could move right into building permits/site plan review. They could bolt on some high density mixed-use stuff within the parcel to make the economics work better. At the end of the day your guess is as good as mine and it's all speculation until announced. Hopefully we know soon!

ASU Diablo · #**1052** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 6:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

The NWC is nearly 20-acres owned by a private developer that has sat on it for years and is sufficient size to build an arena. It appears to already be zoned for that use so they could move right into building permits/site plan review. They could bolt on some high density mixed-use stuff within the parcel to make the economics work better. At the end of the day your guess is as good as mine and it's all speculation until announced. Hopefully we know soon!

Gotcha. Didn't see the NWC part, had focused on the NEC of that intersection. Funny enough, just saw AZ Central article and they confirmed it was state trust land so looking like this NWC intersection may be it. So who knows...let's see what happens! LOL

I know we have discussing/guessing the parcel where it would go but I hope Muruelo knows what he's doing. I think the 202/Alma School location made more sense (closer to EV and existing season ticket holder base). This Desert Ridge location is definitely more affluent and probably more corporate money but sounds like further away from existing season ticket holders.

PHX31 · #**1053** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 7:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

I know we have discussing/guessing the parcel where it would go but I hope Muruelo knows what he's doing. I think the 202/Alma School location made more sense (closer to EV and existing season ticket holder base). This Desert Ridge location is definitely more affluent and probably more corporate money but sounds like further away from existing season ticket holders.

This is kind of what I thought... a desert ridge location off the 101 in Scottsdale isn't much better than a westgate location off the 101 in Glendale as far as general proximity to what is best thought of as a EV (or SouthEV?)-centric fanbase (it is a bit better, but not totally). However, Ice Den Scottsdale is pretty close so I'd imagine being nearer to that would be decent benefit.

xymox · #**1054** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

It's not that location. That land was purchased by an apartment developer. My money is on NEC or NWC of 56th & 101. Mainly because it's adjacent to Desert Ridge/City North retail, future apartment's and commercial office and a large Resort which would mean Coyotes can get away with not building as much of those uses.

People in Desert Ridge are up in arms about a new Fry's going in. I can't imagine how they would get any project going in that area of this scale without major opposition.

combusean · #**1055** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 8:35 PM**

That's not what's going on on that corner. That corner wasn't zoned nor designed for the commercial zoning the developer is proposing, and one likely compromise is to remove or otherwise restrict the 24 hour gas station in the developer's proposal.

Desert Ridge has a long history of specific plans and has a huge HOA-sort of thing that is supposed to implement and advocate for parts of it--people like predictability of zoning and moved to the area because of it. Anything outside of the boundaries doesn't have the same weight and falls into the usual developer friendly Phoenix politics.

N830MH · #**1056** Posted **Dec 7, 2023, 11:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymox

People in Desert Ridge are up in arms about a new Fry's going in. I can't imagine how they would get any project going in that area of this scale without major opposition.

I heard! It’s right there on Mayo and Black Mountain Blvd. it’s right next to Pinnacle high school. I can go to Fry’s and buy some thing for me. No more going to Fry’s on Bell Rd and Tatum Blvd. I’ll bet people will go to Fry’s. Albertsons are always too busy store. Too many people are going to Albertsons. That’s too much!! Fry’s will be less busy than Albertsons.

xymox · #**1057** Posted **Jan 11, 2024, 4:51 PM**

Well look at this - some evidence that the 'location' of the former Coyotes arena wasn't why they couldn't get butts into seats. A LOT of big name performers swing through here at all days of the week on a regular basis - and they have their best year ever since they evicted the Coyotes.

https://ktar.com/story/5556787/glend...h-anniversary/

Glad this can operate w/o a major league sports 'anchor' successfully.

For the Coyotes - doesn't seem like wherever they put up the arena guarantees it'll be full consistently. That depends squarely on the ownership and the quality of the team they put on the ice. Put a competitive team out there and in a metro our size, no problem finding 18000 people to go watch them play regularly no matter where it is.

locolife · #**1058** Posted **Jan 11, 2024, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymox

Well look at this - some evidence that the 'location' of the former Coyotes arena wasn't why they couldn't get butts into seats. A LOT of big name performers swing through here at all days of the week on a regular basis - and they have their best year ever since they evicted the Coyotes.

https://ktar.com/story/5556787/glend...h-anniversary/

Glad this can operate w/o a major league sports 'anchor' successfully.

For the Coyotes - doesn't seem like wherever they put up the arena guarantees it'll be full consistently. That depends squarely on the ownership and the quality of the team they put on the ice. Put a competitive team out there and in a metro our size, no problem finding 18000 people to go watch them play regularly no matter where it is.

I don't disagree that a quality product is mandatory to have good long term attendance but this is apples and oranges to me. Season ticket holders mean the same person is going to the same location over and over. These major events are not being attended by the same people over and over.

I've been to 2-3 events at DFA in the past few years ago, I don't go to every concert that comes through and I will actually skip shows I'd otherwise go to if they're at DFA on a weeknight, versus FootPrint on a weeknight.

But I'm glad DFA is doing well without a major pro sports tenant.

ASU Diablo · #**1059** Posted **Jan 11, 2024, 6:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by locolife

I don't disagree that a quality product is mandatory to have good long term attendance but this is apples and oranges to me. Season ticket holders mean the same person is going to the same location over and over. These major events are not being attended by the same people over and over.

I've been to 2-3 events at DFA in the past few years ago, I don't go to every concert that comes through and I will actually skip shows I'd otherwise go to if they're at DFA on a weeknight, versus FootPrint on a weeknight.

But I'm glad DFA is doing well without a major pro sports tenant.

Right? It's an apples to oranges comparison.

I will glady battle weeknight rush hour traffic from the EV to Westgate to see a band play. Am I willing to do this commute 40 other times to see the same band? Hell no.

I am actually not surprised to see the arena's success. Not many venues on the West Valley besides Talking Stick Resort Amphitheatre. Let's see if Desert Diamond Arena can keep it up w/ the new concert venue opening up right next door at VAI Resort.

combusean · #**1060** Posted **Jan 11, 2024, 7:55 PM**

I don't think those venues are going to compete with each other much. Anything attached to a forward hotel or resort seems harder to access and more costly so if you're not already staying there it makes less sense to check out a show there. Now, if you're there partly to see a resident act or otherwise making a vacation out of it, sure..., but that doesn't seem like something locals do much.