HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #641  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 12:14 AM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,116
k
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #642  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 6:55 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
Submarine de Nucléar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,477
lol
nitpickers. =\
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #643  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 4:02 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
I think Mark supplied the source of the article at the bottom of his post...you will see the link there.
On the post that quote came from, I supplied the source with a link at the bottom too. Thanks for the admission Mark. Not trying to be a dick, just pointing out how it feels to be nit-picked.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #644  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 4:12 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,517
^it's really not nit-picking...if everyone used decent judgement, considering the content of the forum, and didn't post anit-planner and I'maToole rants, it wouldn't be as necessary. But after I read a bullshit article and realized the source at the bottom of the post after I had wasted five minutes of my life, I think it is necessary to make sure that courtesy is extended so we can skip over things that really, IMO, have no business being posted here.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #645  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 4:22 PM
Urbanpdx Urbanpdx is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 561
Since you take transit and post thousands of posts on numerous blogs/forums, I doubt that 1 minute (you must read very slowly if it took 5) was worth much.

The post, btw, was not a meaningless rant, it was on the topic of the Burnside/Couch couplet and introduced a couple of interesting points that sparked discussion here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #646  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 4:30 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanpdx
a couple of interesting points that sparked discussion here.
^yep it has...like the last six posts.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #647  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2007, 8:35 AM
pdxstreetcar's Avatar
pdxstreetcar pdxstreetcar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,300
get your tram merchandise - tshirts, grand opening poster, hats

http://errolgraphics.com/pages/tram.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #648  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2007, 5:07 PM
vjoe's Avatar
vjoe vjoe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Can i get this locally, I don't want to pay 6 bucks for shipping.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #649  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2007, 5:09 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,517
I'm not sure if OHSU has a temporary store set up yet, but there will be a Tram souvenir/gift shop when OHSU's renovation project around the upper tram landing is completed.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #650  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2007, 3:51 AM
vjoe's Avatar
vjoe vjoe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Only $6.99, the only opening day tram cookie left in existence (that I know of.)
get it now!!!

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #651  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2007, 4:41 AM
westsider's Avatar
westsider westsider is offline
Kicking a** since 1907
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 437
Looks like a novelty condom.
__________________
"People should not be afraid of their government; governments should be afraid of their people"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #652  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2007, 3:48 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,517
I still have one! I ate one and it twas naaasty, so the other one is still on the counter at home.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #653  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2007, 6:43 PM
vjoe's Avatar
vjoe vjoe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 80
Yeah, the frosting was pretty icky. We got our hope up when we saw it was Beaverton bakery, but yuk..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #654  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2007, 11:00 PM
Dougall5505's Avatar
Dougall5505 Dougall5505 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-town
Posts: 1,976
http://www.oregonlive.com/O/entertai...630.xml&coll=7
Designing for dollars with the aerial tram
Evaluating the cost vs. the value of the international design competition
Sunday, February 18, 2007
RANDY GRAGG
The aerial tram is just a few metal panels away from being 100 percent complete.

An exhibition by the tram's designer, Sarah Graham is now on view at the American Institute of Architects.

It's a good time to ask: Was the international design competition to design the tram a good idea?

As with all things aerial tram, opinions abound. So let's narrow the discussion to a couple of participants who had the most money and reputation on the line and two architects and an engineer, one inside the process, one out and one in between.

Full disclosure: I argued strenuously for a tram design competition in several articles during the early tram planning process. Barge builder Jay Zidell, the owner of 33 acres next door to where the tram now lands, liked the idea, anteing up $50,000 to get the contest going. The city, Oregon Health & Science University and developer Homer Williams followed suit.

Ultimately, Sarah Graham of the Swiss/American firm Angelil/Graham/Pfenninger/Scholl bested three finalists: UN Studio of the Netherlands, SHoP from New York and Guy Nordenson, one of the world's foremost engineers.

Graham captured the imagination of the jury and the public with her concept of "light infrastructure" -- minimalist structures and bubble-shaped cars -- and a wider set of connections between OHSU, the river and the long-abused neighborhood in between.

The rest, of course, is tortured history. The original $15.5 million budget -- based on a simple ski-lift-style tram anchored into Marquam Hill's basalt -- proved way too low for the actual engineering problem at hand: anchoring the tram's 1 million pounds of cars and cables on a freestanding 80-foot tower, a feat of engineering never before accomplished.

Add soaring steel prices for the towers, a falling dollar to pay the Swiss tram equipment manufacturer and a construction contract that left the city shouldering all the risk for cost overruns.

Presto, final cost: $57 million.
But how much of the final price was really the design?

Let's take the easy parts first.

An off-the-shelf tram car could have cost approximately $500,000. Graham's bubble-shaped car -- which required bringing metalsmiths out of retirement to hand-hammer the curves -- cost $1.4 million.

An off-the-shelf version of the 175-foot intermediate tower next to I-5 -- a so-called "lattice tower" like those for high-voltage power lines -- would have cost $720,000. Graham's sleek, steel-plate tower cost $8.5 million.

All that Graham added to the lower tower was the aluminum-mesh enclosure -- minimal cost at best.

Total design premium so far: about $8.68 million.

The upper station at OHSU is where the opinions about the value added vary -- wildly.

OHSU's Steve Stadum, who watched his institution's contribution climb from $10 million to more than $40 million, thinks tighter city contracts and a "design/build" process (in which the architect works for the contractor) could have built Graham's design for $35 million. Matt Brown, the city's original project manager who oversaw the earliest stages of the design, says the tram's overall cost could have been cut in half with all off-the-shelf systems by Swiss ski-lift company Doppelmayr.

"But with every vote, the City Council confirmed it wanted more than that," he says.

When the costs for the tower began soaring, the city hired Art Johnson of KPFF Consulting Engineers, a lead engineer on major Portland building projects for more than 30 years, to review the design. Graham's scheme featured one concrete elevator shaft plus four splayed, steel-plate columns. Johnson proposed the upper tower to sit atop two concrete pillars -- estimated savings $7 million.
But Graham drove a hard bargain, wanting payment for any redesign and, at times, even threatening to resign.

"The whole idea was that we were buying a designer, not a design," says Stadum of OHSU. "She was supposed to be flexible. She was not."

Graham's AIA exhibition testifies to that resolve.

Graham's original competition proposal would have built the towers out of high-tech steel-and-wood laminates. Brown and others working with Graham believe she held fast to that idea way too long. Graham counters that her interest throughout was to keep the promise of a minimalist tram.

The AIA show features dozens of models of potential tram structures Graham and her team studied. But the full sets of plans also on view show what happened after she and her team landed on their choice. From concept to full construction drawings to the final "value engineering" to cut every conceivable cost, little about the design changed -- because little could.

"This is the smallest, lightest structure we could possibly do," she says. "There isn't one more stick than there needed to be."

Greg Baldwin, a longtime Portland architect and urban designer who sat on the competition selection committee, thinks the competition gave the project a profile that kept it from getting "nickeled and dimed."

"I think the competition was a good idea, even more than I did in the beginning," he says. "Quality was achieved, which isn't easy in the current construction environment."

"It was exactly the kind of project for a competition," according to architect Don Stastny, who has run dozens design competitions, from the Disney Concert Hall to the American Embassy in Berlin to the current contest between Norman Foster and Santiago Calatrava and others to design what is to be San Francisco's tallest building.

Stastny wanted to manage Portland's competition, but lost the job to a newcomer: Reed Kroloff, who had just left Architecture magazine. Stastny literally has to live with the result: The tram is visible out his Madison Tower condominium.

So was it worth it?

Stastny chortles at the similar problems with a local competition he ran back in 1981: Pioneer Courthouse Square. The original $4 million budget ballooned to nearly $8 million, he recalls.

"The cost issues always go away after a while," Stastny says. "A year from now, everybody will be trying to take credit."

Randy Gragg: 503-221-8575; randygragg@ news.oregonian.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #655  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2007, 2:46 AM
oilcan's Avatar
oilcan oilcan is offline
Tokyo 1993 - 1998
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 384
Aboslutley amazing... Portland is one hell of a city, can't wait to ride the tram when I go up there in April to visit my girlfriend.

Portland's transportation is leaps and bounds ahead in the NW...

What a model of a city, no wonder Spokane always has it's eyes on what Portland is doing..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #656  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2007, 4:06 AM
Drmyeyes Drmyeyes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 384
"An off-the-shelf tram car could have cost approximately $500,000. Graham's bubble-shaped car -- which required bringing metalsmiths out of retirement to hand-hammer the curves -- cost $1.4 million."

This probably sounds like quibbling about petty details, but particularly when I read today that the tram cabins shell was hand hammered, it's kind of unsatisfing to have that beautiful shape disrupted by the boxy door frame. I mean after all, Chrysler and other car manufactures were able to make super sleek, nesting doors for their fabulously successful minivans. If they could do it, why couldn't the tram cabin fabricators?

The money spent for the streamlined intermediate tower was well worth it. Thank god that tough chick Graham stood her ground. I like the following statement referring to her

"Graham counters that her interest throughout was to keep the promise of a minimalist tram."

This is definitely one of the objectives that will firmly establish this project as a success into the future. Imagine if we'd had to look at an ugly lattice tower for who knows how long.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #657  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2007, 8:54 PM
pdxstreetcar's Avatar
pdxstreetcar pdxstreetcar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,300
I'm pretty sure the rectangular door frame is needed as a bumper for docking.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #658  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2007, 9:16 PM
65MAX's Avatar
65MAX 65MAX is offline
Karma Police
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: People's Republic of Portland
Posts: 2,138
I thought the rectangular frame was just for shipping purposes because it looked so out of place against the curved cabin. I was very disappointed to realize that the frame was staying. It really detracts from the otherwise very sleek cabins. Queen Sarah couldn't have come up with a better solution than that?... as much as she spent on everything else?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #659  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2007, 10:19 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
Submarine de Nucléar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,477
Perhaps it was value-engineered? You do sometimes run into situations where you must compromise in design, unfortunately. And the budget wasn't quite unlimited... =)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #660  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2007, 6:37 AM
65MAX's Avatar
65MAX 65MAX is offline
Karma Police
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: People's Republic of Portland
Posts: 2,138
Maybe, but if you're going to bring "metalsmiths out of retirement to hand-hammer the curves", why would you stop at the doors?
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:36 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.