Great Lakes Cities

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

Yeah, and as others have alluded, the skiing in Tremblant etc is better than almost anywhere in the eastern U.S., and about on par with the average slopes out west. The best spots out west are not only considerably more expensive, but also often considerably more crowded.

New Mexico is the exception - highest quality skiing relative to cost and crowds in the lower 48.

The actual skiing at Tremblant is mediocre at best due to generally poor snow and large crowds. It does have good nightlife if you're into the pricey, douchey, ersatz village scene. The best skiing in that part of the world is Le Massif and Jay Peak, two of the steepest and snowiest eastern resorts.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Skiing in the East sucks compared to the West, but there are two good reasons to ski East:

1. Access. There's no decent skiing out West that's near any major airport. It's expensive, time-consuming and a schlep to go to "real" skiing like Alta or Jackson Hole.

2. Most "ski weekends" aren't really about skiing. Go to Killington on a typical weekend and most people are trying to get laid. Weekdays are more family time. Whether or not Mt. Snow has equivalent skiing as Whistler is as relevant as whether or not Long Island beaches are equivalent to the Seychelles (which is to say, almost completely irrelevant). It's more for networking, partying, family time, etc.

Anecdotal, but last "ski weekend" around half the people in our group never put on skis or snowboards.

SLC is a major airport that has 9 resorts within a 45 min drive: Powder Mountain, Snowbasin, Park City, Der Valley, Solitude, Brighton, Snowbird, Altaand Sundance. DEN is less than two hours to Winter Park, Loveland, Arapahoe, Keystone, Breckinridge, Copper, Vail and Beaver Creel.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by 10023

Lift tickets alone are expensive in the US. That's one thing that is dramatically cheaper about Alpine skiing.

Except the US has great deals on passes. Heavily discounted loft tickets are easy to come by at Liftopia and Costco. I've also scored great deals from Craigslist and scalpers in Salt Lake. BYU students can get really cheap Snowbird tickets that they often resell.

The US is also great for cheap motels close to ski areas.

[samne]

Southern Ontario has a pretty solid and active ski culture despite having laughable ski hills.

Anyone from Ontario who skis has been to Tremblant. Its an overall good experience and close enough.

The thing about Tremblant is that it can get unbearably frigid for much of the winter.

[Gordo]

The best combo of easy access + actual good skiing + apres ski opportunities in the US is now Park City, since Utah has eased back on a lot of the alcohol laws that existed in the past. You can be at a condo or hotel on the mountain from the airport in less time than it takes to get from JFK to midtown, and Salt Lake has cheap direct flights from almost anywhere in the US. Ten years from now Park City and environs will rival Whistler for the best all around experience in NA.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ Park City Canyons is now the largest single ski area in North America, possibly the world, since Vail Resorts merged them.

Also lift tickets are only obscenely priced if you are an idiot and don't know how to work the system. I pay $750 a year to ski unlimited days at Breck, Keystone, Vail, Beaver, A-Basin, Heavenly, Whistler, Park City, and a whole bunch of other resorts including some in the Midwest, two in South America, one in Australia, and a couple of places in Japan... Sounds like a deal to me when I get 20-25 days a year of skiing in.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You really think it's that much of a non-factor?

Yes, but my buddies and I, as well as my family (my densest skiing era was as a teen) are all sporty people and have always been serious about skiing.

You're probably correct that there are people out there who have a completely different approach to skiing, which feels pretty alien to someone like me. Sometimes if you and everyone you know are a certain type of not-that-representative sample and you don't realize it, you might end up thinking you're more typical than you actually are. I'm willing to admit it may be the case here.

For example, I have zero recollection of the shops and restaurants and bars at the base of Whistler, even though I've skied there. They could be high quality or crappy, I have no idea. I didn't go there for the shops and stores, I went there for the mountain, the snow, and the slopes. (And because I was nearby -- after having experienced it, it's definitely not flying over from the East, at least to me.)

[DrJoe]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the great lakes region is freaking awesome for so many reasons

Preach, brother!

Sometimes they don't get the respect they deserve, just the lakes in general. I mean there are mountains and shit all over the place but a collection of massive lakes, basically inland seas, all grouped together so tightly? How often do you see that?


Lake Superior Wave by Ed Post, on Flickr


Lake Michigan sunset by wdterp, on Flickr


Bruce Peninsula National Park - The Grotto - HDR by nicksmacro, on Flickr


Michigan - Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore by Jim Strain, on Flickr


The Grotto by Mark Heine, on Flickr


Volcano on the beach by Brook Tyler, on Flickr


Sandbanks Dunes by Tom Podolec, on Flickr


Lake Erie Bluffs_20170724_15 by greennite, on Flickr

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yes, but my buddies and I, as well as my family (my densest skiing era was as a teen) are all sporty people and have always been serious about skiing.

You're probably correct that there are people out there who have a completely different approach to skiing, which feels pretty alien to someone like me. Sometimes if you and everyone you know are a certain type of not-that-representative sample and you don't realize it, you might end up thinking you're more typical than you actually are. I'm willing to admit it may be the case here.

For example, I have zero recollection of the shops and restaurants and bars at the base of Whistler, even though I've skied there. They could be high quality or crappy, I have no idea. I didn't go there for the shops and stores, I went there for the mountain, the snow, and the slopes. (And because I was nearby -- after having experienced it, it's definitely not flying over from the East, at least to me.)

And I am the exact opposite type of skier!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

Sometimes they don't get the respect they deserve, just the lakes in general. I mean there are mountains and shit all over the place but a collection of massive lakes, basically inland seas, all grouped together so tightly? How often do you see that?

There are only 3 places on our entire planet that have liquid surface freshwater lakes on that scale.



Planet earth's reserves of liquid surface freshwater (by volume):

African Great Lakes - 25%

Lake Baikal - 22.5%

North American Great Lakes - 21%

All of the other freshwater lakes, rivers, ponds, swamps, etc on the planet combined - 31.5%

[Docere]

Great pics. The Great Lakes are definitely underappreciated IMO.

[dc_denizen]

I liked Tremblant, and the snow was great. it was frigid.

Whiteface seems kind of similar, except with more ice.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Gordo

The best combo of easy access + actual good skiing + apres ski opportunities in the US is now Park City, since Utah has eased back on a lot of the alcohol laws that existed in the past. You can be at a condo or hotel on the mountain from the airport in less time than it takes to get from JFK to midtown, and Salt Lake has cheap direct flights from almost anywhere in the US. Ten years from now Park City and environs will rival Whistler for the best all around experience in NA.

Trois Valles, Paradiski and several other European resorts are far larger than PC or WB. If One Wasatch happens, it will be the largest in the world:
http://onewasatch.com/

PC offers a massive bed base, probably the world's best ski town outside the Alps, easy access and great weather but the actual skiing is mediocre. The continuous vertical is much less than the stated vertical which is simply the difference between the highest and lowest elevations. The 300 in snowfall sounds impressive but is far less than its neighbors. One Wasatch would connect Park City's awesome town and hotel base with the far better terrain and snow in Big and Little Cottonwood canyons. I've been fortunate enough to ski 5 continents and without question would rank Little Cottonwood (Alta and Snowbird) as best in the world. PC could expand into Monitor Bowl, which would offer better terrain and Big Cottonwood like snow conditions.

UT's alcohol laws have never been as restrictive as people believe

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And I am the exact opposite type of skier!

I'm a heighter, skyline booster type of skier. I don't recall. It's possible I may have never even put on skis during some weekend ski escapes.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by Doug

Trois Valles, Paradiski and several other European resorts are far larger than PC or WB. If One Wasatch happens, it will be the largest in the world:
http://onewasatch.com/

PC offers a massive bed base, probably the world's best ski town outside the Alps, easy access and great weather but the actual skiing is mediocre. The continuous vertical is much less than the stated vertical which is simply the difference between the highest and lowest elevations. The 300 in snowfall sounds impressive but is far less than its neighbors. One Wasatch would connect Park City's awesome town and hotel base with the far better terrain and snow in Big and Little Cottonwood canyons. I've been fortunate enough to ski 5 continents and without question would rank Little Cottonwood (Alta and Snowbird) as best in the world. PC could expand into Monitor Bowl, which would offer better terrain and Big Cottonwood like snow conditions.

UT's alcohol laws have never been as restrictive as people believe

Yep, agreed, though I'd rank Alta/Snowbird behind Jackson Hole and Big Sky for terrain and only slightly better for snow quality. Proximity to "other stuff" is clearly orders of magnitude better though.

As far as the alcohol laws, true, they were never as restrictive as people believe for patrons, but they were incredibly restrictive for businesses to make money easily, which resulted in fewer overall mid/high end restaurants than you'd normally see.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I'm a heighter, skyline booster type of skier. I don't recall. It's possible I may have never even put on skis during some weekend ski escapes.

I just spit out my drink.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

Sometimes they don't get the respect they deserve, just the lakes in general. I mean there are mountains and shit all over the place but a collection of massive lakes, basically inland seas, all grouped together so tightly? How often do you see that?

Silly as it sounds, sometimes it's all about the food. Seafood is just better than lakefood, period. I want mekajiki/swordfish, wild salmon, cod, halibut etc. over rainbow trout or whatever else passes as a freshwater steak fish. Same deal with shellfish. Growing up in coastal New England and then living in Tokyo instills high standards for seafood. So when I see what my eyes are telling me is an ocean - no horizon in sight - but the food coming out of the water isn't seafood, I'm slightly disappointed?

(it's a reach, I know)

[benp]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Silly as it sounds, sometimes it's all about the food. Seafood is just better than lakefood, period. I want mekajiki/swordfish, wild salmon, cod, halibut etc. over rainbow trout or whatever else passes as a freshwater steak fish. Same deal with shellfish. Growing up in coastal New England and then living in Tokyo instills high standards for seafood. So when I see what my eyes are telling me is an ocean - no horizon in sight - but the food coming out of the water isn't seafood, I'm slightly disappointed?

(it's a reach, I know)

I think of the dairy farms and fruit orchards in the Great Lakes areas. Driving up I-90 from Pennsylvania the hillsides are covered with rows of grape vines, which have an extended growing season due to the warmer lake waters in the autumn. Further inland are multiple dairy farms, including within many Amish and Mennonite communities. These are the fresh foods that I know and miss, along with the particular ethnic mix of the immigrants to the area and local foods.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Silly as it sounds, sometimes it's all about the food. Seafood is just better than lakefood, period. I want mekajiki/swordfish, wild salmon, cod, halibut etc. over rainbow trout or whatever else passes as a freshwater steak fish. Same deal with shellfish. Growing up in coastal New England and then living in Tokyo instills high standards for seafood. So when I see what my eyes are telling me is an ocean - no horizon in sight - but the food coming out of the water isn't seafood, I'm slightly disappointed?

(it's a reach, I know)

You have to show some freshwater Pickerel/Walleye some respect. And not necessarily the Great Lakes variety.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by benp

I think of the dairy farms and fruit orchards in the Great Lakes areas. Driving up I-90 from Pennsylvania the hillsides are covered with rows of grape vines, which have an extended growing season due to the warmer lake waters in the autumn. Further inland are multiple dairy farms, including within many Amish and Mennonite communities. These are the fresh foods that I know and miss, along with the particular ethnic mix of the immigrants to the area and local foods.

The land up the west coast of Michigan is really stunning vista after stunning vista. The area up around Traverse City is particularly nice.


Château de Διόνυσος by Evan.L., on Flickr


Lake Michigan View by James Korringa, on Flickr


Walk of a Lifetime by James Korringa, on Flickr


Grand Haven - Memorial Day 2011 by Daniel L, on Flickr