Halifax Transit

[ScovaNotian]

There is a forward looking infosheet on MetroX at http://www.halifax.ca/MetroTransit/d...t.June2009.pdf.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Several questions: 1) Where is Geizer's Hill? 2) What route will those Link buses/MetroX be taking to get on the Peninsula? 3) Will Metro Transit team up with Ecology Action Centre to promote these new services like they did with the Link? That seemed to work pretty well.

The major problem I have with these services is how park-n-ride dependent they are. One stop only in the Clayton Park area - I'm sure Fairview would have quite high ridership, they could run the Link bus down Lacewood and pick up somewhere at the bottom of Fairview. I don't know Spryfield as well as Mainland North but I'm sure the same could be said for that area - another stop would serve a lot of people. A couple of more stops could really increase Link coverage.

Overall though MetroX and Link expansions will be an important improvement to the regional transportation network. Hopefully this moves ahead as planned.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Several questions: 1) Where is Geizer's Hill? 2) What route will those Link buses/MetroX be taking to get on the Peninsula? 3) Will Metro Transit team up with Ecology Action Centre to promote these new services like they did with the Link? That seemed to work pretty well.

The major problem I have with these services is how park-n-ride dependent they are. One stop only in the Clayton Park area - I'm sure Fairview would have quite high ridership, they could run the Link bus down Lacewood and pick up somewhere at the bottom of Fairview. I don't know Spryfield as well as Mainland North but I'm sure the same could be said for that area - another stop would serve a lot of people. A couple of more stops could really increase Link coverage.

Overall though MetroX and Link expansions will be an important improvement to the regional transportation network. Hopefully this moves ahead as planned.

I'm guessing Geizer's Hill is around the 102/North-West Interchange. And well since the plans are to widen Bayers Road for a bus lane I would have to say the buses will go to the interchange and down Bayers to Robie.

One thing I've always thought should be explored is a ferry terminal in Burnside with shuttle connections through-out the park. With peak-hour service to Bedford and Downtown (and any other terminals that might come online). Off peak the ferries could be used to boost ridership elsewhere like Woodside or rented out for parties/festivals. Heck I even know where a terminal could be located (Just west of Akerley Blvd on Windmill Road on a peninsula or with some manipulation at the foot of Bancroft Drive adjacent to the Burnside MetroLinks).

One other thing that could be explored in relation to a potential Sunnyside MetroLink is converting the passing lane on Dartmouth Road (Drt-bound) into a bus lane and extending the merge lane on Magazine Hill down to the existing bus lane on Windmill Road.

[hfx_chris]

Geizers Hill is the hill at the top of Main Avenue, where the two large CBC towers are. You know the ones, they've got the white strobes, very recognizable..

I don't think MetroLink is the type of service where you could have multiple park and ride lots along the same route. The problem usually, or at least in the case of Portland Hills and Sackville, is that the buses pretty much fill up, if there was a second dedicated park and ride lot along its route they would probably never be able to fit everyone on.

Anyway, I've always hated maps like the one shown in that pdf. Great for getting the overall idea, but horrible for trying to figure out exactly where the bloody route is going, what streets etc.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Geizers Hill is the hill at the top of Main Avenue, where the two large CBC towers are. You know the ones, they've got the white strobes, very recognizable..

I don't think MetroLink is the type of service where you could have multiple park and ride lots along the same route. The problem usually, or at least in the case of Portland Hills and Sackville, is that the buses pretty much fill up, if there was a second dedicated park and ride lot along its route they would probably never be able to fit everyone on.

Anyway, I've always hated maps like the one shown in that pdf. Great for getting the overall idea, but horrible for trying to figure out exactly where the bloody route is going, what streets etc.

So Geizer's Hill is the top of Fairview, very good to hear. I don't think there should necessarily be multiple park and rides, but more station with walk-up traffic. The top of Fairview would make sense for this with Mount Royal going in and decent bus ridership in the area already.

Isn't there plans to bring in atriculated buses to serve at least the Sackville Link? That would alleviate some of the over-crowding. You could also increase the frequency of buses.

I agree, that's a terrible map, although from a user point of view much better than trying to figure out what's happening on the regular Metro Transit map.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

I'm guessing Geizer's Hill is around the 102/North-West Interchange. And well since the plans are to widen Bayers Road for a bus lane I would have to say the buses will go to the interchange and down Bayers to Robie.

One thing I've always thought should be explored is a ferry terminal in Burnside with shuttle connections through-out the park. With peak-hour service to Bedford and Downtown (and any other terminals that might come online). Off peak the ferries could be used to boost ridership elsewhere like Woodside or rented out for parties/festivals. Heck I even know where a terminal could be located (Just west of Akerley Blvd on Windmill Road on a peninsula or with some manipulation at the foot of Bancroft Drive adjacent to the Burnside MetroLinks).

One other thing that could be explored in relation to a potential Sunnyside MetroLink is converting the passing lane on Dartmouth Road (Drt-bound) into a bus lane and extending the merge lane on Magazine Hill down to the existing bus lane on Windmill Road.

Interesting ideas. I don't know Bedford very well at all, it seems like a transit challenge, which is one reason I like the ferry idea so much.

Regardless of how it's done Burnside needs more transit coverage - the business park association has been vocal about this I believe. It's just very tough to service because although its a big employment hub its spread out with low employment densities. I think small, very frequent shuttles (every couple of minutes in rush hour) would be ideal but would be pretty expensive to run.

I think a ferry at Shannon Park might have some potential to tie into Burnside, plus provide an alternative to the MacKay Bridge. Plus the development potential is pretty huge, but unfortunately it doesn't look like anything will be happening there anytime soon.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Interesting ideas. I don't know Bedford very well at all, it seems like a transit challenge, which is one reason I like the ferry idea so much.

Regardless of how it's done Burnside needs more transit coverage - the business park association has been vocal about this I believe. It's just very tough to service because although its a big employment hub its spread out with low employment densities. I think small, very frequent shuttles (every couple of minutes in rush hour) would be ideal but would be pretty expensive to run.

I think a ferry at Shannon Park might have some potential to tie into Burnside, plus provide an alternative to the MacKay Bridge. Plus the development potential is pretty huge, but unfortunately it doesn't look like anything will be happening there anytime soon.

Yes unfortunately Bedford is a traffic nightmare. The problem arises because there's only three main roads and only one of them is compeltely asseciable (Bedford Highway). The Bypass only has one entrance/exit and the Bi-Hi only has interchanges on either end of town and both are infamos for not being very efficient.

I love the ferry idea too but there are some councillors that think the problem is only local and nobody will use it (both points are bogus because Bedford traffic ties up every road in the city and people here want transportation thats at a reasonable travel time). What gets me is Bedford has no transit servicing the Bridge terminal (the busiest and most asseciable) and only has one bus going into Dartmouth with about six trips a day.

A ferry terminal in Shannon Park could also work but only as long as it has bus service to the majority of Burnside. I think the spot just west of Akerley Drive would work best since its just north of Wright's Cove (away from yacht club/islands), right on Magazine Hill/Windmill Road and at the most important stop-light in Burnside. From the terminal shuttles could run through all of Burnside and by using existing bus routes it could also service Bedford and Sackville.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Isn't there plans to bring in atriculated buses to serve at least the Sackville Link? That would alleviate some of the over-crowding. You could also increase the frequency of buses.

I've heard that a number of times, but who knows when.

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

I agree, that's a terrible map, although from a user point of view much better than trying to figure out what's happening on the regular Metro Transit map.

You've got to be kidding me. At least the individual route maps include street names and landmarks... although I'll agree the system maps are a nightmare to parse.

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

...people here want transportation thats at a reasonable travel time...

Exactly why the "fast" ferry will "sink"

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

What gets me is Bedford has no transit servicing the Bridge terminal (the busiest and most asseciable) and only has one bus going into Dartmouth with about six trips a day.

I wonder if there would be some sort of benefit to a loop around the basin, something along the lines of: Bedford Hwy, Dartmouth Road/bypass, Windmill, Victoria, Bridge Terminal, MacDonald, Gottingen, Young, Robie/Kempt, Bedford Hwy. Two routes running opposite each other. Downside is it would require a transfer to downtown Halifax though.
Also route 66 has 16 trips / day through Bedford..

There was a push a couple years ago for what I believe HRM was calling community shuttles, which would be similar to the style of buses HRM is purchasing for the MetroX rural express service, and would basically loop around smaller areas. Burnside was a suggested area where service like that would make sense. And it makes sense to me too, I just hope they use real buses for the service...

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Exactly why the "fast" ferry will "sink"

It will be fine.

The way I see it anything would faster than an average commute of 45mins or taking the bus (1:15 mins via the 80).

I wonder if there would be some sort of benefit to a loop around the basin, something along the lines of: Bedford Hwy, Dartmouth Road/bypass, Windmill, Victoria, Bridge Terminal, MacDonald, Gottingen, Young, Robie/Kempt, Bedford Hwy. Two routes running opposite each other. Downside is it would require a transfer to downtown Halifax though.
Also route 66 has 16 trips / day through Bedford..

There was a push a couple years ago for what I believe HRM was calling community shuttles, which would be similar to the style of buses HRM is purchasing for the MetroX rural express service, and would basically loop around smaller areas. Burnside was a suggested area where service like that would make sense. And it makes sense to me too, I just hope they use real buses for the service...

I was actually going to suggest a "Basin Loop" route with a path something along those lines.

And well I checked you are correct about the 16 trips but the problem is the 66 doesn't go to the Bridge Terminal and its mainly on hour frequencies. I was reading some awile back and MT is has 30 min freuency scheduled for the 66 in the future along with some other ideas. I'll have to see if I can dig the information back up.

On another note I was out to Sackville today via the 66, 80 and 82 and I found the most disgusting, run-down terminal in all of HRM. The Cobequid Terminal is in crap shape, out-dated and despite handling thousands of people a day does not have an terminal building where people can wait out of the scorching heat (like I had to today for 20min). It is in worse shape than the Bridge Terminal and the place is pretty bad too.

[hfx_chris]

Plus the 66 gets horribly crowded during rush hour, and that scenic trip through Burnside is annoying.. it's always at least 10 minutes behind schedule, and I've heard it's most drivers' least favourite route, because there's very little layover time in the schedule, so there's almost no time for rest, especially if behind schedule.

Cobequid, Highfield, Penhorn, Bridge, Lacewood... they're all the same. I mean they were all built around the same time, they're all run down and in bad shape, and with the exception of some differences in layout they all look the same. Oh, and they all need to be replaced. But aside from the Bridge, only Penhorn and Lacewood have seriously been mentioned for replacement (in the case of Lacewood especially, since it was only ever meant to be a temporary terminal). With the exception of Sackville and Portland Hills, which are both new locations, the only terminals to be actually replaced in recent years is Mic Mac and Mumford - the old Mic Mac terminal was the same vintage as the others listed, and it was replaced with a simple platform and a couple of bays on the side of the road, at the edge of the parking lot (used to be located next to the doors by Winners, which of course used to be the old IGA).
I get the feeling if and when HRM ever replaces terminals like Penhorn, Cobequid or Highfield, don't expect much. Certainly don't expect a separate terminal building.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Plus the 66 gets horribly crowded during rush hour, and that scenic trip through Burnside is annoying.. it's always at least 10 minutes behind schedule, and I've heard it's most drivers' least favourite route, because there's very little layover time in the schedule, so there's almost no time for rest, especially if behind schedule.

Yes unfortunately it does get crowded at rush hour. What will happen a lot is Downtown workers (I have family member on SGR who does this) will take the 84/85/87 to Cobequid Terminal then switch over to the 80 or 66. If you catch the 66 coming up Magazine Hill from Akerley you'll be lucky if you can get a seat in the evening.

Cobequid, Highfield, Penhorn, Bridge, Lacewood... they're all the same. I mean they were all built around the same time, they're all run down and in bad shape, and with the exception of some differences in layout they all look the same. Oh, and they all need to be replaced. But aside from the Bridge, only Penhorn and Lacewood have seriously been mentioned for replacement (in the case of Lacewood especially, since it was only ever meant to be a temporary terminal). With the exception of Sackville and Portland Hills, which are both new locations, the only terminals to be actually replaced in recent years is Mic Mac and Mumford - the old Mic Mac terminal was the same vintage as the others listed, and it was replaced with a simple platform and a couple of bays on the side of the road, at the edge of the parking lot (used to be located next to the doors by Winners, which of course used to be the old IGA).
I get the feeling if and when HRM ever replaces terminals like Penhorn, Cobequid or Highfield, don't expect much. Certainly don't expect a separate terminal building.

Well if the Clayton Park Link comes online I imagine the Lacewood Terminal would require an upgrade. Its unfortunate HRM is so cheap with the terminals since places like Cobequid serve some 40'000+ population areas (Lwr Sackville & Bedford) and what they have is just dispicable and is probably scaring people away.

On the note of Clayton Park I was reading a MT Document yesterday and apparently they will be building a park-'n-ride at Geizers Hill in addition to Lacewood and I imagine the Spryfield Link will be going to Geizer's Hill too.

[hfx_chris]

Right on.

You've got to remember too, back in the early 90's when a lot of those terminals were built, they looked a lot better and were definitely adequate for the ridership of the day (except Lacewood, which has been overcrowded since the day it opened..)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

I love the ferry idea too but there are some councillors that think the problem is only local and nobody will use it (both points are bogus because Bedford traffic ties up every road in the city and people here want transportation thats at a reasonable travel time). What gets me is Bedford has no transit servicing the Bridge terminal (the busiest and most asseciable) and only has one bus going into Dartmouth with about six trips a day.

Well, it is fairly local in scope but it also has a small budget. Most councillors seem to want to find projects that are cheap and involve little or no disruption (they considered commuter rail, for example, but threw out the idea of all rail once it became clear that they couldn't do it by inheriting abandoned tracks and running used diesel cars...). Unfortunately, projects like that don't actually exist, and the real projects will become more and more difficult as the city grows and as fuel costs rise.

It feels like the HRM council is thinking on a scale an order of magnitude too small, which is really sad. Halifax is a real city now that requires real planning and spending, not half measures paid for with pocket change.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by someone123

It feels like the HRM council is thinking on a scale an order of magnitude too small, which is really sad. Halifax is a real city now that requires real planning and spending, not half measures paid for with pocket change.

Very well put. I think another problem is council hasn't been very involved in transit planning at the strategic level - its all been left to staff (which is a common theme in Halifax). My impression is council has little knowledge (or interest) in the regional transit plans. The ferry is a good example - potentially a big improvement for the entire region but getting little support because on the surface it won't improve transit service in every councillors ward.

[Dmajackson]

I was out to Dartmouth/Halifax via buses. Two problems I really noticed on the 66 were the buses were late and the last bus heading to Sackville leaves Mic Mac at 6:30 which is too early. To cheer things up on this thread though heres a little story of what happened to me today;

I had a new bus driver on the 66 heading home tonight and well at Highfield she accidently turned left instead of right. Thankfully someone pointed it out to here but she was already half way down the road so she asked me to help her. I had to stand behind the bus in the middle of the road (on Highfield Dr) directing her backwards while directing the other traffic around the bus. I was out there for like five minutes getting a bus to go backwards into a terminal during rush hour. It was the funniest bus experience I've ever had.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Right on.

You've got to remember too, back in the early 90's when a lot of those terminals were built, they looked a lot better and were definitely adequate for the ridership of the day (except Lacewood, which has been overcrowded since the day it opened..)

Exactly where on Lacewood is the terminal located? I can't picture it...

[-Harlington-]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Exactly where on Lacewood is the terminal located? I can't picture it...

the lacewood terminal is on the corner of lacewood dr. and willet st. its behind the game store in the plaza there with all the stores

[hfx_chris]

Exactly, it's literally split between the sidewalk on the edge of Willet behind part of the mall, and the driveway into the mall between the game store and I think a dollar store. It's particularly dangerous because a number of routes are required to actually drive through part of the parking lot to get to part of the terminal.

Speaking of liabilities...

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

I had a new bus driver on the 66 heading home tonight and well at Highfield she accidently turned left instead of right. Thankfully someone pointed it out to here but she was already half way down the road so she asked me to help her. I had to stand behind the bus in the middle of the road (on Highfield Dr) directing her backwards while directing the other traffic around the bus. I was out there for like five minutes getting a bus to go backwards into a terminal during rush hour. It was the funniest bus experience I've ever had.

Wow. She is really lucky a supervisor didn't drive by at that time, or another driver report that... she would be in a lot of shit.

Hello Haligonians:

I'd like to ask what might seem like a very strange question. I was noticing in some of the pictures posted by Halifax forumers that the traffic lights hanging from posts are horizontal, and not vertical. I'm curious to know if this has always been like that or if that is a new thing Halifax is doing. If it is new, can someone explain to me why this is occuring? I know that Saskatchewan is changing many of their hanging traffic lights to the horizontal position aswell. Alberta has been like this for years. BC and Manitoba and Ontario are all vertical.

Thanks!

ps, I wasn't sure where to post this question, and apologize if it is in the wrong thread.

[Wishblade]

Im only 23, but there have been horizontal street lights here for as long as I can remember.