[Surrey] Park George | 35 + 39 fl | U/C

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by CoryHolmes

Like any opportunity, it's a gamble. Sometimes you win, sometimes not. I'm very concerned about the markets correcting themselves quickly, so I'm still content to sit on the sidelines for now and keep to my nice condo already

Corrections only cause issues if:

1. The correction is such that the property falls below the mortgage on it currently
2. The correction is such that a short-term reseller loses their bottom line and doesn't want to hold

For longer term investors though, a correction isn't an issue, just really tweaks timing. For example, for me, if the market corrected the condos dropped by even 50% of current, I would still make money because I bought long ago and low enough.

For someone else, say a newer buyer into Park Avenue or even this, if a correction happens, as long as #1 doesn't happen which causes banks to flip, you would just have to wait. Every market eventually corrects the other way and starts to increase again.

Phoenix for example, hard hit in 2009, is back to where it was at the crash and in some locations properties are above now. So even the most drastic drops over the long term, just due to inflation, will increase.

You are right though, it is a gamble but so is the stock market.

[GreyCat]

And clients (aiming for 1bdr units) who were scheduled to visit on Sunday were cancelled.
Anyone was there?

[GMasterAres]

Not surprising. If there is a correction it won't affect Surrey Central as much as the rest of the region. Surrey units are still considerably lower than equal sized units in say Metrotown, Brentwood, or Downtown. It would be those condos hit far more with a correction than Surrey.

There is also a supply and demand problem still since I know from the small unscientific research I've done, that there is a sizable population of people buying into Surrey Central just because they can't afford condos or units in the other cities. While SC has seen prices increased, as I said above, it is still below the other regional centers.

I'm also still not 100% sold that it is entirely a result of foreign buyers. Take e-clam9 for example who is a poster here and clearly owns and lives in a PA unit. e-clam9 is an example of a local buying other pre-sales in other buildings on a regular basis, that isn't a foreign buyer.

There _are_ people that live here buying pre-sales and paying the prices being demanded for the units. I also do not actually think $379,900 is entirely unreasonable for a 1 bedroom unit walking distance from major SkyTrain in the "downtown" of a major city. 18 year old 1 bedroom condos are selling in Yaletown today for > $700,000. Metrotown they're around $500,000.

If you're a first-time home buyer putting down 10%, $380,000 is still a manageable mortgage for many. And yes I realize that is "STARTING" price.. still scales are similar.

[misher]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Not surprising. If there is a correction it won't affect Surrey Central as much as the rest of the region. Surrey units are still considerably lower than equal sized units in say Metrotown, Brentwood, or Downtown. It would be those condos hit far more with a correction than Surrey.

There is also a supply and demand problem still since I know from the small unscientific research I've done, that there is a sizable population of people buying into Surrey Central just because they can't afford condos or units in the other cities. While SC has seen prices increased, as I said above, it is still below the other regional centers.

I'm also still not 100% sold that it is entirely a result of foreign buyers. Take e-clam9 for example who is a poster here and clearly owns and lives in a PA unit. e-clam9 is an example of a local buying other pre-sales in other buildings on a regular basis, that isn't a foreign buyer.

There _are_ people that live here buying pre-sales and paying the prices being demanded for the units. I also do not actually think $379,900 is entirely unreasonable for a 1 bedroom unit walking distance from major SkyTrain in the "downtown" of a major city. 18 year old 1 bedroom condos are selling in Yaletown today for > $700,000. Metrotown they're around $500,000.

If you're a first-time home buyer putting down 10%, $380,000 is still a manageable mortgage for many. And yes I realize that is "STARTING" price.. still scales are similar.

Foreign buyers were big purchasers, but the thing is most of them had PR or citizenship so there actually Canadians from foreign countries. Actual people buying who are not Canadians is less than 1% now but prices didn't go down any because of it as you'll see from how home prices went down a bit after the tax then climbed back up to normal levels in a few months. Foreign buyers are just a great target to bash, and we will keep beating that horse because its an easy target even if its not a realistic/smart one.

If the government was serious about supporting actual born and bred Canadians it would have policies that target those who didn't grow up here such as waiving the transfer tax for Canadians who have lived and worked here for the past 5-10 years.

Right now the government is targeting locals while pretending its for foreigners with the speculation tax (aka vacation home/cabin tax/weekday condo downtown with big house in Chillwack for weekends), transfer tax, school tax, etc.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by misher

Foreign buyers were big purchasers, but the thing is most of them had PR or citizenship so there actually Canadians from foreign countries. Actual people buying who are not Canadians is less than 1% now but prices didn't go down any because of it as you'll see from how home prices went down a bit after the tax then climbed back up to normal levels in a few months. Foreign buyers are just a great target to bash, and we will keep beating that horse because its an easy target even if its not a realistic/smart one.

If the government was serious about supporting actual born and bred Canadians it would have policies that target those who didn't grow up here such as waiving the transfer tax for Canadians who have lived and worked here for the past 5-10 years.

Right now the government is targeting locals while pretending its for foreigners with the speculation tax (aka vacation home/cabin tax/weekday condo downtown with big house in Chillwack for weekends), transfer tax, school tax, etc.

Pretty much this.

If we were really serious, we would legally have buyers prove their wealth and prove that they are a citizen in Vancouver.

[EhJay]

Originally Posted by GreyCat

And clients (aiming for 1bdr units) who were scheduled to visit on Sunday were cancelled.
Anyone was there?

I can't say if they are all sold out, but the parking for it was insane all day with a constant over flow of cars parking everywhere, including on the sidewalks.

[e-clam9]

Originally Posted by EhJay

I can't say if they are all sold out, but the parking for it was insane all day with a constant over flow of cars parking everywhere, including on the sidewalks.

Don't worry if you can't get one this time, tower 2 will be pre-sale soon and it has a very nice lobby. Tower 1 does not have lobby. Its main and 2nd floor are all amenities (gym, party room, indoor pool, game room, study/conf lounge, access doors to all outside services like outside pool, all Park Ave outdoor amenities, and more) which can be busier and also noisier, I think. If tower 1 has good sales, I bet that tower 2 will be more expensive (but still less than Burnaby or Vancouver, about $150 to $200 per sq.ft. less.). It may be finished 1 year after tower 1.

University District pre-show starts from this weekend. No appointment is needed and free food truck :-)

[e-clam9]

Originally Posted by jhausner

You are right though, it is a gamble but so is the stock market.

I guess you are right, if you hold the property long enough, it can recover from a big realty crash. The long period can be 10+ years or more. Some area in United States are still below water or not totally recovered their price since the financial crisis in 2008. And with the trade war between US and China, the economy is cracking again. The tariff is hurting both sides now. Not a smart move by their president.

I always said no one knows the future.

[EhJay]

There's some signage for Park George II coming up now on the website and at the Sales Centre. Sales are expected to start this year.

[Cypherus]

This will hopefully break ground this summer. If so, expect a 3 year build out like Park Avenue (June 2014 excavation to completion of both towers around August 2017). So this looks like completion by summer 2022. Note, though, that Condord tends to build two towers in 3 years whereas Evolve and Prime have now surpassed 3 years to complete just one tower each....

[e-clam9]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

This will hopefully break ground this summer. If so, expect a 3 year build out like Park Avenue (June 2014 excavation to completion of both towers around August 2017). So this looks like completion by summer 2022. Note, though, that Condord tends to build two towers in 3 years whereas Evolve and Prime have now surpassed 3 years to complete just one tower each....

Was Park Ave East be finished one year before Park Ave West ? If yes, then they were not built at the same time. But I guess the foundation and underground parking were built together at the same time. Please correct me.

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by e-clam9

Was Park Ave East be finished one year before Park Ave West ? If yes, then they were not built at the same time. But I guess the foundation and underground parking were built together at the same time. Please correct me.

Yes tower 1 was built first and available for move in before tower 2, but the comparison is to show that it still took just 3 years where both towers were available for occupancy.

[e-clam9]

Tower II pricing does not change much comparing to Tower I. A little more for 1br and a little less for 3 br. Still not including parking and locker. Concord also claims to combine Park Ave and Park George amenities and it is 110,000+ sq.ft. of indoor/outdoor amenities !! If this becomes truth, no other condo project can match that in this area... It is even better than some resorts :-)

[EhJay]

Wouldn't that be up to the strata councils as opposed to concord? It's an interesting proposal and hopefully it goes through.

[e-clam9]

Originally Posted by EhJay

Wouldn't that be up to the strata councils as opposed to concord? It's an interesting proposal and hopefully it goes through.

This is why I said "if".... It is interesting that developer did not mention the "condition".

I really hope it gets approved by both strata councils (PA and PB) too but it will be a few years away.

[officedweller]

Presumably the cost sharing structure for the amenities would be under written agreement between the Concord subsidiaries building each building and the agreement would be transferred to the stratas following completion. The stratas may not have any say in the sharing formula as the agreement would already be signed.

The same applies to stratas who share costs with a hotel or commercial space in the same building.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Presumably the cost sharing structure for the amenities would be under written agreement between the Concord subsidiaries building each building and the agreement would be transferred to the stratas following completion. The stratas may not have any say in the sharing formula as the agreement would already be signed.

The same applies to stratas who share costs with a hotel or commercial space in the same building.

Park Avenue is a completed project. Concord doesn't have any say on them agreeing to share amenities at this stage. That's the point I think being made. It is totally fine for them to instill agreements for Park George as they own the property and are building the building, but it takes two to tango.

This is also a point that people need to realize about buying into Strata properties. Developers can promises you the moon but there is always a disclaimer at the bottom that many likely don't see saying "subject to change by Strata council in the future."

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Park Avenue is a completed project. Concord doesn't have any say on them agreeing to share amenities at this stage. That's the point I think being made. It is totally fine for them to instill agreements for Park George as they own the property and are building the building, but it takes two to tango.

This is also a point that people need to realize about buying into Strata properties. Developers can promises you the moon but there is always a disclaimer at the bottom that many likely don't see saying "subject to change by Strata council in the future."

But they are both Concord projects, so the 2 Concord subsidiaries building each project could have an agreement in place even if the projects are phased and the next phase building does not yet exist (i.e. back when Park Ave. was built).

In Vancouver, a number of Concord buildings in the Beach neighbourhood share the amenities complex at West One, even though those buildings completed years apart.

If it's in your master plan for buildings to share facilities, you'd set up the legal documents in advance of them being built - same applies for easements and rights-of-way across property (like shared driveways).

If there's a change in developer though, and the obligations aren't assumed by the new owner, condo owners could be left without an amenity - i.e. for Infinity, the developer was to provide amenities in a subsequent phase, but sold those phases to Concord. Concord did not assume the obligation to provide amenities to Infinity so they don't have any.

Here's an example of a developer agreement that wasn't properly assigned to the strata at the first strata AGM, but the strata was still liable to assume:

http://lmlaw.ca/2014/04/bc-supreme-c...e-strata-plan/

[fredinno]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/park...working-campus

Following growing remote work trends, particularly for those employed in the region’s growing tech industry, Concord Pacific is adding a significant co-working space element to its upcoming Surrey development, located near SkyTrain’s King George Station.
Park George will have 5,000-sq-ft of ‘Campus’ co-working space — a 24/7 work lounge within the base of one of the towers. Features that make this a workable environment for business include alcove pod working areas, lounges, boardroom, video conference capabilities, and Wi-Fi.

Nice. Hopefully the other in construction Concord projects would something like this too? Concord Brentwood?

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by officedweller

But they are both Concord projects, so the 2 Concord subsidiaries building each project could have an agreement in place even if the projects are phased and the next phase building does not yet exist (i.e. back when Park Ave. was built).

In Vancouver, a number of Concord buildings in the Beach neighbourhood share the amenities complex at West One, even though those buildings completed years apart.

If it's in your master plan for buildings to share facilities, you'd set up the legal documents in advance of them being built - same applies for easements and rights-of-way across property (like shared driveways).

If there's a change in developer though, and the obligations aren't assumed by the new owner, condo owners could be left without an amenity - i.e. for Infinity, the developer was to provide amenities in a subsequent phase, but sold those phases to Concord. Concord did not assume the obligation to provide amenities to Infinity so they don't have any.

Here's an example of a developer agreement that wasn't properly assigned to the strata at the first strata AGM, but the strata was still liable to assume:

http://lmlaw.ca/2014/04/bc-supreme-c...e-strata-plan/

Good point, that does make sense and I'd imagine Concord wouldn't be promoting it in Park George if they didn't establish that before they started with Park Avenue.