Provo MSA Development Thread

[i-215]

Environment aside, wouldn't a causeway be geologically unsafe? It seemts to work fine across the Great Salt Lake, but I'm concerned that 20 years after it's built we may find huge sections that are sinking because the ground eroded from the lake water.

[SmilingBob]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Here's my two cents. I'm up in the air on the Utah Lake Crossing idea, on the one hand I say, if they don't want to drive so far they shouldn't move out there, but on the other had I am a realist and I understand that growth is going to occur out there anyway, especially once the Mtn View corridor is eventually extended to Nephi on the west side of Lake Mtn.

However I disagree whole heartedly on the idea of any of the crossing being a causeway, besides maybe a small section maybe a few hundred yards between bridges. I think the best way to cross the lake would be with a series of long bridges conneted by an elevated roadway(similar to the road in the keys). How about a total of 6 miles of bridge and about 2 miles of elevated highway, 1/2 mile on each end to cross over wet lands, and two half mile segments in the lake to connect a serious of three 2 mile bridges. Maybe a two mile bridges are unreasonable, I have no idea. I'm no environmentalist but I would imagine this would be the least disruptive to the eco system of the lake, besides not building anything of course. It would provide a crossing but would still allow for free flow of water and fish through out the lake. Maybe a small land mass in the middle connecting the bridges would be an option also.

It really is a dilema in my mind.

I, too, am up in the air about this proposal. It sounds cool, but the reality is a bit different. It would spur growth out there and will cause more environmental damage. Do that many people need to get to Provo/Orem from across the lake? I would think that the roads and Mountain View Corridor around Lehi will handle most of the traffic west of Utah Lake.

How many people are going to live between the lake and the mountain along that stretch and should we encourage growth there?

I would like to see the lake more usable and initially thought the causeway would help with that, but it's a mixed bag as to what would help or hurt the ecosystem in the lake.

I do think the study is a great thing because it gives us more facts vs. feelings about what to do with the Lake.

[i-215]

The way I see it, the MVC will do more than anything to encourage growth with it dead-ending right into 73 right at the mouth of that neck of land between the lake and Lake Mtn.

We can't stop it! At least politically we can't. Not here.

Developers + Legislature ->

If that's the case, let's build this baby - and find a way to charge it to the developers.

[SmilingBob]

Originally Posted by i-215

The way I see it, the MVC will do more than anything to encourage growth with it dead-ending right into 73 right at the mouth of that neck of land between the lake and Lake Mtn.

We can't stop it! At least politically we can't. Not here.

Developers + Legislature ->

If that's the case, let's build this baby - and find a way to charge it to the developers.

I agree. Houses are cheaper out west, but it requires the rest of Utah to pay for the roads. I do think there should be an impact fee or something simliar that goes to pay for the roads that are being built because they want to live out west of Utah Lake.

[delts145]

Several protest impact fee increase

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/255369/

..

[Happy Valley Freak]

I just had an idea, what if they just put a ferrie terminal at ither end of the lake?, I'd imagine it'd be alot cheaper then putting a discusting causeway, or a bridge across the lake....any thoughts?

[millhouse]

Utah lake is to shallow for a ferrie

[delts145]

Massive Construction Project To Widen I-15 In The Works

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/top...5-e90e2d21a282

The plan is to widen I-15 from Sandy, where the last highway widening project left off, to Payson.

The 43-mile project would cost just under $5 billion _ or $7 billion with borrowing costs, said John Njord, executive director of the Utah Department of Transportation.

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[wrendog]

^^^^^ you posted this in the market station thread as well.. I mean you linked to this in the market station thread. You might want to fix the link over there.

[delts145]

^^^
The post in the Market Station thread worked fine last night, but it was not a written article. Seems as if the Video link has moved on to the latest news and I can't retrieve the video from last night.

[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by Happy Valley Freak

I just had an idea, what if they just put a ferrie terminal at ither end of the lake?, I'd imagine it'd be alot cheaper then putting a discusting causeway, or a bridge across the lake....any thoughts?

I like the ferry idea (at least better than a causeway or bridge). Since the lake is shallow maybe they could dredge a path for the ferry. But this is not a "ferry" state, this is a massive highway/Hummer state. Soon you may see developers filling in Utah Lake with private islands, as long as the clowns on the hill get their Jazz tickets.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by delts145

Massive Construction Project To Widen I-15 In The Works

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/top...5-e90e2d21a282

The plan is to widen I-15 from Sandy, where the last highway widening project left off, to Payson.

The 43-mile project would cost just under $5 billion _ or $7 billion with borrowing costs, said John Njord, executive director of the Utah Department of Transportation.

.

I can't figure this state out. We don't have enough money for the Mountain View Corridor (2 billion), yet we have little trouble worrying about a 7 billion project?

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by i-215

I can't figure this state out. We don't have enough money for the Mountain View Corridor (2 billion), yet we have little trouble worrying about a 7 billion project?

That's a good point i-215. Never thought of it like that. But you would think if UDOT has the money to Re-do I-15, then where's the funds for the Mountain View Corridor? I don't get it.

[urbanboy]

Well, I don't thing the question should be whether or not we can, but rather, whether or not we should.

[delts145]

As with I-15 in Salt Lake County, I-15 in Utah County is at the very heart of congestion at this point in our growth. While the need for Mountain View will be soon upon us as critical, the need for a maximum capacity, state-of-the- art I-15 has already reached the critical point. With limited funds, I am glad to see them both expand I-15, expand critical surface streets, first implement Front Runner, and establish more Trax throughout the Metro, before they deal with Mountain View. While we are a prosperous State, funds are not unlimited, and Mountain View is further down the list at this time.

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[delts145]

Bed and breakfast hoping to call Alpine home

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...254287,00.html

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[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by delts145

As with I-15 in Salt Lake County, I-15 in Utah County is at the very heart of congestion at this point in our growth. While the need for Mountain View will be soon upon us as critical, the need for a maximum capacity, state-of-the- art I-15 has already reached the critical point. With limited funds, I am glad to see them both expand I-15, expand critical surface streets, first implement Front Runner, and establish more Trax throughout the Metro, before they deal with Mountain View. While we are a prosperous State, funds are not unlimited, and Mountain View is further down the list at this time.

.

Delts, can't you see how widening the freeway WON'T solve congestion? It will only induce the demand, and soon after, there will be a triple convergence, meaning: those who were taking the alternate routes because of the congestion will start using the freeway again; those who were traveling at hours other than peak hours to avoid congestion will start traveling at peak hours again; and, those people who were using alternate modes of transportation (like FrontRunner), because it was faster than the freeway, will likely start driving their car on the freeway again. Soon the freeway isn't so un-congested anymore. only this time there are a substantially larger amount of cars on the road spewing out emissions, and not getting anywhere fast or efficiently. Also, Utah Valley should expect to loose all of it's open space and apple orchards to sprawl, and see it's air quality go to pot, because this is what it does. Increasing the accessibility changes land patterns and fuels sprawl like a wildfire! Now, with a widened freeway and increased accessibility, those homes down in Payson don't look so bad after all. So, people buy them, and become commuters, adding to those cars already on the road. Then after the roads get so congested, those residents living down in Payson demand jobs that are closer to home. Then jobs start moving out to the suburbs where land is cheap, and because there is only so much economic development to a given area and population, the inner cities and densities, which promote and sustain efficient transportation systems, start to decline. It's all interconnected. To think that one element of the urban fabric, in this case transportation, can be analyzed in a vacuum sealed box is ludicrous!

[SLC Projects]

I think what Delts is trying to say is that Utah Country needs not only the widening of the 1-15 and the plan Mountain View on the west side, but also we need Front Runner and Trax to come down here. With ALL these in place it will better help with the congestion.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I think what Delts is trying to say is that Utah Country needs not only the widening of the 1-15 and the plan Mountain View on the west side, but also we need Front Runner and Trax to come down here. With ALL these in place it will better help with the congestion.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!

Ok, maybe that was a little too dramatic; but how much of my last post did you read anyway? I think you need to go back and read it again. This time, think about it a little harder and a little longer before you give me such a simplistic reply.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!

O.k Don't hurt yourself over there. Did I say something wrong?
How is having Front Runner and Trax and a new freeway on the west side a bad idea?
Have you ever driven in Utah Country during rush hour? But not just on the 1-15, but on redwood road on the West Side coming into Utah Country? That's only two lanes. ( One each way ) Then there's Main Street in Lehi. Same deal. It's only two lanes. What a mess. Utah County has out grown it's roads.
You are right about widening the I-15 would just bring more people on the freeways. I mean just look at the I-15 in Salt Lake County now. It's just as bad today then it was before it got widen to 12-lines or whatever it is. That's why we need Front Runner and Trax and M.V.C as well. With these it would take some of the traffic off of the I-15. That's my 2 cents on this.