PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Because they're much bigger than Walnut. So even though the price per sf is lower, you have to take more square footage (on average), so it comes out in the wash.

Newbury is akin to Walnut Street. Small floor plates very high rents.

I've moved on from Walnut. It's a non-starter for many (most) refusing to pay the rent and there's almost nothing else that's super attractive as a #2 location.

And yet Walnut doesn't hold a candle to Newbury in terms of retail vitality. And so the quandary persists...

Fair enough. However, in the end, no one seems to benefit from the retail reluctance. Either landlords need to eventually come down on rent or face losing profit by having longstanding vacant storefronts and/or the retailers that aren't willing to put their necks out will lose eventual market share to the one's that do.

The situation isn't entirely bleak either. It looks like the old Under Armour space on Walnut is finally being filled with Rolex or possibly a Rolex/Govbergs of some kind. The space looks pretty nice.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I wonder why, though. Couldn't someone challenge that?

The absence of the former civic association that favored the restrictions doesn't mean ordinances duly passed by City Council go away. There's really no grounds for a challenge. What would need to happen is for Councilperson Squilla to introduce a bill to rescind the restrictions, assuming that's something his constituents might request in significant numbers. Good luck with that.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Where on Chestnut, Locust and Broad? There's like 1 store on Broad Street (Banana) and as stated, it's closing.

Retailers need adjacencies. Walnut Street as I said is logical but the rent is exhorbitant. Chestnut is only slightly less expensive and still exhorbitant, also, the floor plates are huge so you need to have a certain size to be a good fit. Market has Market East which PREIT shit the bed on and incorrectly positioned as an outlet center (instead of a big box location), so the damage is done (i.e. Shoppers World). Where on Locust? Next to the 1 store? Suit Supply?

So where else where a retailer wouldn't be a pioneer?

if we are talking big box stores I understand that, but uhh cities are made for the small store fronts we have & with apartments above it.

We have enough big box stores in the city.

Now for places like a lego store or etc they could see if they could buy 3 store fronts and connect them making the store bigger on the inside.

they are some big plots/abandon store fronts on Market East they can put big box stuff there it works for the tourists and feel for that part of the city.

But areas like Locust/Walnut,South St and etc need smaller stores/resturants. Builds the vibe in the community.

[summersm343]

Major National Retail strips?

-Walnut Street - this is our luxury strip. We know it's struggling and it should be much better. It's should be better. It's supposed to be better. I think rents are the main issue.

-Chestnut Street - I do think Chestnut Street is becoming a great viable option from Broad to 20th Street or so.

-East Market Street - with the redo of the Gallery/Fashion District, Market East is definitely on the up for retail.

Future retail strips?

-N. 3rd Street in Old City. I like this. Think it's a brilliant idea between Market and Race.

-N. 2nd Street in NoLibs between Fairmount and Girard. I think this would be a great future option to consider with all of the new development in NoLibs, Fishtown, Delaware Waterfront and Olde Kensington.

-South Street from 2nd Street to 7th Street. I think South Street has been struggling to find it's new identity as the hipsters have moved onto Fishtown and beyond. It still has a lot there, so maybe some more "quirky" and more affordable or middle-of-the-pack national retailers can move in like Superdry, Urban Outfitters, Clarks, Footlocker, Forever 21, Gap, Garage, H&M, Lids, Old Navy, etc.

Aside from that, yeah, I can't think of any other option in the city currently. Chestnut Hill? No way - neighborhood would not support that. Ardmore is a good option for retailers that still "feels" like it's in the city limits. The rest will continue to go to KOP, Cherry Hill and other surrounding suburbs/malls. I think we need to focus on rebuilding up Walnut, and continuing to build up Chestnut and Market Streets. The other options (N. 3rd in Old City and N. 2nd in NoLibs) I think can certainly come over time.

[summersm343]

50 N. Spring Garden Street

Current site:


Rendering:

The owners of the property have received a zoning permit to construct a 7-story building here, with retail on the first floor and 62 units upstairs. Here’s a rendering of the project, to give you a sense of what might appear here in the near future.

In a bit of an interesting twist, the owners of the site are apparently not seeking to redevelop the property, but are instead looking to sell off the development site to a new owner for $3.5M. The listing not only provided the rendering above, but also provides some detail on the potential financials for the proposed building and also includes the stipulation that the sellers receive an 80 sqft carveout on the first floor for a kiosk area. We should note that it’s possible that the current owners will end up building this thing in the end- it’s not all that unusual for an owner to explore the possibility of selling a property pre-construction and then ultimately do it themselves if they make the determination that self-performing is the most appropriate approach.

Read/view more here:
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phill...-next-delilahs

[summersm343]

Permits Issued For 21-Unit Building At 1000-02 Spring Garden Street In Callowhill

Rendering:


Current site (surface parking on the corner):


Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/05/perm...allowhill.html

[summersm343]

Permits Issued For Vertical Addition At 725-29 South Broad Street In Hawthorne

Current site:

Permits have been issued for an addition to 725-29 South Broad Street in Hawthorne, South Philadelphia. The development will involve a three-floor overbuild on top of the existing structure to create a seven-story building. Additionally, a new six-story structure will be attached to the existing building in the back. The structure will feature 55,119 square feet in the interior and will house business and office space. Construction costs for the development are estimated at $4 million.

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/05/perm...hawthorne.html

[summersm343]

Façade Work Begins At Innovator Village In Graduate Hospital

Rendering:


Current progress:


Current progress:


Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/05/faca...-hospital.html

[TonyTone]

I drove by the Broad St project next to the subway & Fire station and they were digging and moving dirt.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Finally some good economic news!

Fore Biotherapeutics picks Philadelphia for global HQ, may add dozens of workers

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

I am adding 2 small quotes to give an idea...

"A precision oncology company founded in Jerusalem has established a new global headquarters in Philadelphia."

"Usama Malik, CEO at Fore Biotherapeutics, said the company is starting out with five people in Philadelphia — but it could add dozens more this year."

Boston & DC were in the running, but Philadelphia was chosen due to local talent, a huge presence in the industry, nearby institutions, and central location.

This is great! They're going to uCity right? 3675 Market I think?

[summersm343]

McDonald's at Broad & Carpenter



Posted here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/grea...elphiaplanners

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

We have enough big box stores in the city.

We're missing very notable and needed big box representation in the home space. Namely:

Container Store
Beth Bath and Beyond
Home Goods
World Market

These stores, particularly Container Store, create huge opportunities for adjacencies for retailers.

The Gallery reboot should have been for these types of specialty big box retailers, especially considering the design center moved to the Market East NRIA development on the south side of the street. It would have created a center of gravity for "home" stuff in Center City which if successful, could have also lured a Room and Board or even a Bloomingdales Home. Layered onto that you could have had the Lego Lands, Niketown, etc.

Then there's a whole other tier of "start up" home furnishings companies that come into the orbit. The Articles, Joybirds, Burrows, of the world perk up when that center of gravity exists.

Like I said, PREIT shit the bed and got the concept wrong from the beginning. The outlet space is oversaturated, period.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

We're missing very notable and needed big box representation in the home space. Namely:

Container Store
Beth Bath and Beyond
Home Goods
World Market

These stores, particularly Container Store, create huge opportunities for adjacencies for retailers.

The Gallery reboot should have been for these types of specialty big box retailers, especially considering the design center moved to the Market East NRIA development on the south side of the street. It would have created a center of gravity for "home" stuff in Center City which if successful, could have also lured a Room and Board or even a Bloomingdales Home. Layered onto that you could have had the Lego Lands, Niketown, etc.

Then there's a whole other tier of "start up" home furnishings companies that come into the orbit. The Articles, Joybirds, Burrows, of the world perk up when that center of gravity exists.

Like I said, PREIT shit the bed and got the concept wrong from the beginning. The outlet space is oversaturated, period.

^^^^

Totally.

[TonyTone]

You are correct we do need stores like that however we do have space still, 8th and Market which could house a few and I think the Galley still has one big space left.

Also since Banana republic is gone now that would work.

Also what about that spot at 15th & Walnut? how big is that corner spot?

There is still opportunity and space left for big box retail in the main core.

The only issue is to make sure it's done correctly.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

You are correct we do need stores like that however we do have space still, 8th and Market which could house a few and I think the Galley still has one big space left.

Also since Banana republic is gone now that would work.

Also what about that spot at 15th & Walnut? how big is that corner spot?

There is still opportunity and space left for big box retail in the main core.

The only issue is to make sure it's done correctly.

I guess the point is it wasn't done correctly and now it's too late. Or at least until the next generation of that strip.

Container Store doesn't want to be next to Shoppers World. And Container Store doesn't want it, sure as hell Room and Board doesn't want it either.

It's not incumbent upon a single tenant to re-envision an entire city block. It's not their job and they have no interest in being pioneers. It's the city, landlords, and neighborhood associations who need to step into the void and drive the conversation.

We've talked about it recently, but even Walnut Street isn't that nice compared to other high streets around the country.

What's so great about it? The sidewalks are cramped and tired. There isn't even landscaping in the tree pits, let alone any public space programming or visual interest.

Rittenhouse Row has really kind of given up, it seems. Time for new blood.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I guess the point is it wasn't done correctly and now it's too late. Or at least until the next generation of that strip.

Container Store doesn't want to be next to Shoppers World. And Container Store doesn't want it, sure as hell Room and Board doesn't want it either.

It's not incumbent upon a single tenant to re-envision an entire city block. It's not their job and they have no interest in being pioneers. It's the city, landlords, and neighborhood associations who need to step into the void and drive the conversation.

We've talked about it recently, but even Walnut Street isn't that nice compared to other high streets around the country.

What's so great about it? The sidewalks are cramped and tired. There isn't even landscaping in the tree pits, let alone any public space programming or visual interest.

Rittenhouse Row has really kind of given up, it seems. Time for new blood.

Walnut is a nice strip from Broad up to 76 even before that it is nice. Multiple Jewelry stores and on the higher end clothing stores.

I think you are being to harsh on Walnut it definitely is a nice strip, sure it can use some new landscaping and im sure it's coming but Walnut is one of the nicest strips in town along with Chestnut. I see those two strips as very important it just needs to be updated and rents a little lower for incentive.

And I'm sorry I didn't go into detail with the 8th & Market plot, What I was saying was that big ass plot can be turned into another walkable mall type of area if a developer comes in and divides the plots up into big enough spaces for some of those brands you mentioned, kind of make it like an outlet but better then the ones that fail. I think they can fit 3 Big box names on that plot then use the rest of the space for smaller store fronts, Sitting areas, outdoor eating and etc.

That would bring a whole different type of life to 8th & Market especially with the EL right under it.

Maybe thats why its been a parking lot for 20 Years because they are trying to figure out what to do and how to do it.

Also isn't there two big store fronts of Market, that 50's style plot and the other one was a clothing store or shoe store I forgot.

[steve_phl]

Newbury Street isn’t exactly thriving, either, even pre-pandemic.

Coronavirus pandemic leaves Boston’s Newbury Street with empty stores

[iheartphilly]

^
Right-most brick and mortar retail stores, including strip malls, malls with anchoring tenants weren't doing all that well pre-pandemic, unless they had a strong online presence and all the bells and whistle of online shopping technologies. The pandemic was literally the nail in the coffin for a lot of these brick and mortar retail stores, including retail stores in well-known mall around Philadelphia, with the exception of King of Prussia Mall and the Town Center near there.

An exception outside of KOP was Kohl's, the did well as a brick and mortar and also online sales to name one.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
Right-most brick and mortar retail stores, including strip malls, malls with anchoring tenants weren't doing all that well pre-pandemic, unless they had a strong online presence and all the bells and whistle of online shopping technologies. The pandemic was literally the nail in the coffin for a lot of these brick and mortar retail stores, including retail stores in well-known mall around Philadelphia, with the exception of King of Prussia Mall and the Town Center near there.

An exception outside of KOP was Kohl's, the did well as a brick and mortar and also online sales to name one.

Yes, online retail has hurt brick and mortar but the wanting of better retail in Center City is nothing new. Pre or post pandemic, Newbury has always had much better shopping than Walnut. It’s just how it is.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by summersm343

This is great! They're going to uCity right? 3675 Market I think?

Yes, with space for 40, then expand from there I hope.

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

We're missing very notable and needed big box representation in the home space. Namely:

Container Store
Beth Bath and Beyond
Home Goods
World Market

These stores, particularly Container Store, create huge opportunities for adjacencies for retailers.

The Gallery reboot should have been for these types of specialty big box retailers, especially considering the design center moved to the Market East NRIA development on the south side of the street. It would have created a center of gravity for "home" stuff in Center City which if successful, could have also lured a Room and Board or even a Bloomingdales Home. Layered onto that you could have had the Lego Lands, Niketown, etc.

Then there's a whole other tier of "start up" home furnishings companies that come into the orbit. The Articles, Joybirds, Burrows, of the world perk up when that center of gravity exists.

Like I said, PREIT shit the bed and got the concept wrong from the beginning. The outlet space is oversaturated, period.

Great post. You can even add Pottery Barn, Crate & Barrel, and bunch of others to the mix.

Design Within Reach was supposed to anchor the East Market development with a huge newer concept store but pulled out and chose Boston instead, due to whatever their reasons were. City Fitness took their place. A gym is good, but Design Within Reach would have been a great start for that stretch.

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I guess the point is it wasn't done correctly and now it's too late. Or at least until the next generation of that strip.

Container Store doesn't want to be next to Shoppers World. And Container Store doesn't want it, sure as hell Room and Board doesn't want it either.

It's not incumbent upon a single tenant to re-envision an entire city block. It's not their job and they have no interest in being pioneers. It's the city, landlords, and neighborhood associations who need to step into the void and drive the conversation.

We've talked about it recently, but even Walnut Street isn't that nice compared to other high streets around the country.

What's so great about it? The sidewalks are cramped and tired. There isn't even landscaping in the tree pits, let alone any public space programming or visual interest.

Rittenhouse Row has really kind of given up, it seems. Time for new blood.

I agree, Walnut is tired, especially if we are comparing to the the best "high streets" in America. The handsome architecture and Rittenhouse Square saves it. The stretch needs trees or planters, new traffic lights, lampposts, sidewalks, pavers, etc. Look to E. Oak Street in Chicago for inspiration, and Market & Broad look at Michigan Avenue for inspiration.

One issue I was thinking when reading this, how well would this go with the Progressive crowd? The city, landlords, neighborhood groups, etc. saying we don't want Shoppers World, we want The Container Store. I agree with you, and I'm sure most people in CC would rather a Container Store, but I could see a whole mess of trigger words... gentrification, wealthy white people, elitist, etc.

5+ years ago when the Gallery was under renovation, end result still unknown, some people were already upset about the attempt to replicate KoP because it ignored a large segment of the Philadelphia population.

I'm just playing devils advocate

Originally Posted by TonyTone

And I'm sorry I didn't go into detail with the 8th & Market plot, What I was saying was that big ass plot can be turned into another walkable mall type of area if a developer comes in and divides the plots up into big enough spaces for some of those brands you mentioned, kind of make it like an outlet but better then the ones that fail. I think they can fit 3 Big box names on that plot then use the rest of the space for smaller store fronts, Sitting areas, outdoor eating and etc.

That would bring a whole different type of life to 8th & Market especially with the EL right under it.

Maybe thats why its been a parking lot for 20 Years because they are trying to figure out what to do and how to do it.

Also isn't there two big store fronts of Market, that 50's style plot and the other one was a clothing store or shoe store I forgot.

That plot is owned by Goldenberg, an entity that loves to site on prime land for years. They are doing the same thing with the Health Center project on S. Broad Street.

8th & Market is a huge plot with so much potential. I would like to see the Eastern blocks from 11th to 9th demolished (less the Nix Federal Building), and expand the East Market development from 12th all way to 8th with space for large format stores, and apartments and hotels on top.

But that is many years away (if at all).

And I'm not sure who owns the buildings from 9th to 11th?