Halifax Active Transportation

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

They are the ones who have co-opted several HRM Council members into wasting untold amounts of tax money on these things. They have been the ones who have been generating the publicity and trying to force these things onto the public.

I would actually prefer proper bike lanes, not some lines painted on the street that do not work for either motorists or cyclists. Take the dandelion verge between the sidewalk and curb that exists on most streets and pave them to make them a separate bike lane out of the car traffic flow. That would cost more, and hence need more deliberation and time before pulling the trigger. That would be good compared to the existing approach, which is hugely ill-advised and is setting the whole thing up for failure and conflict between those paying the bills and the entitled cyclists.

That would be a good idea, though it's also where utility poles and trees are often located. Might not be a wholesale solution, but where possible would be preferable to painted lanes. But yes, it would be expensive.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That would be a good idea, though it's also where utility poles and trees are often located. Might not be a wholesale solution, but where possible would be preferable to painted lanes. But yes, it would be expensive.

We could start by putting utilities underground. We could chop down all the trees to make space for the bike lanes.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

We could start by putting utilities underground. We could chop down all the trees to make space for the bike lanes.

Removing above ground utilities is an excellent idea and I think it should b implemented however the trees are a whole other issue. Halifax is well known for its urban forest and just recently an urban forest master plan was passed that sets high targets (70% in a lot of areas) for canopy cover. Since HRM cannot control trees in the private realm very well and in urban areas land values are too high for land owners to leave space for them most of the new trees will be going onto public lands especially street ROW's.

For utilities I have always thought that working with developers, Heritage Gas, and Halifax Water is the best way to go about burying them. When a property is up for a construction permit developers should be required to excavate and install the underground electrical conduit. HRM would then either immediately install and hook-up the wires as a stand-alone project or wait for natural gas, water, or major street overhaul projects to come along.

[NewBalearic]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That is wrong on two counts. Not only did the Hamm govt redirect fuel tax back to the Transportation & Public Works budget, but the Cdn Federation of Municipalities successfully lobbied the feds to direct part of the federal fuel tax revenue back to cities to pay for roads. I note that none of that revenue comes from cyclists.

If you think gas tax pays for all road improvements, particularly in cities, you are mistaken.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

This is an interesting piece about the attitudes of the cycling zealots. Tell me again why they deserve our support?

Seriously? FRANK?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by NewBalearic

If you think gas tax pays for all road improvements, particularly in cities, you are mistaken.

I don't see where I used the word "all". Most perhaps would be an accurate descriptor. Perhaps we need a large tax on bicycle tires and tubes to help pay for all these lanes.

Seriously? FRANK?

I agree; it's sad that a rag like Frank becomes the only source for actual reporting of a story like this, while the Herald and CBC and other significant media outlets in town just play the sensationalistic victim card for the poor little hapless cyclists. Why have we not seen those quotes in supposedly the authoritative news outlets here? They are too busy printing large color photos of some thumbtacks to actualy dig intot he story.

[HalifaxRetales]

ideas for crosswalks

https://docs.google.com/presentation...0#slide=id.p13

[ILoveHalifax]

My solution would be that every pedestrian arm themselves with a small can of bright yellow spray paint. If a car drives thru when you are trying to cross the street you simply spray the side of the car.
I suspect this would clear up the situation very quickly.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by HalifaxRetales

ideas for crosswalks

https://docs.google.com/presentation...0#slide=id.p13

Good ideas, but I am against the excessive use of large areas of solid paint as that makes it very slippery for bicyclists and motorcyclists when it is wet. I personally know people who have crashed (bicycle and motorcycle) when their wheels went out from under them on a wet crosswalk.

I do like the idea of LEDs in the pavement, saw them in Japan years ago as lane markers and they really stand out at night. Problem is they would have to be really durable to last through snow, ice, salt and plowing in the winter.

Increased awareness and education are the biggest factors, for both drivers and pedestrians. Both have to be aware of the others' situations - it is difficult to see a person darkly dressed at night. Throw in some rain or snow and you have water/fog on the glass, glare from oncoming headlights, etc. to deal with making the pedestrian all the more difficult to see. If both sides could keep themselves aware of the fact that they may not see one another and that life or death can hang in the balance, we might see fewer such incidents.

For pedestrians to place 100% blame on drivers and expect them to be 100% responsible for looking out for them regardless of their actions is foolhardy at best.

Drivers: slow down and be watchful.
Pedestrians: be aware that the driver may not see you and that the laws of physics will not allow him/her to stop their vehicle on a dime.

Another thing that I would suggest would be a program to get those blinking LED armbands out there for pedestrians to use at night. I see a lot of joggers and dogwalkers with them nowdays and it really makes a difference in knowing that somebody is there. The downside is that as we become conditioned to seeing these lights, drivers will become less aware of those who don't have them.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

My solution would be that every pedestrian arm themselves with a small can of bright yellow spray paint. If a car drives thru when you are trying to cross the street you simply spray the side of the car.
I suspect this would clear up the situation very quickly.

No, this would only result in altercations, violence and increased insurance and court costs. People would still get hit in crosswalks. Nobody wins.

[teddifax]

I would like to see what they have in PEI. I don't know what to call them, but will try to describe them. They are not unlike what they have in warmer climates. They are reflectors that show the direction you are going. In Florida they are on top of the pavement, but in PEI, they are cut into the pavement. They work really well.

[ILoveHalifax]

I can tell you that way back 60s when Toronto brought in their cross walk laws (I believe they were first with the program) the laws were targeted and enforced for quite some time.
You could be severely fined for passing a car within a certain distance of a crosswalk. You could be severely fined for not stopping for a pedestrian. Police would spend time at various cross walks enforcing the new laws such that people became very aware of crosswalks and penalties.
Halifax has never had any intense enforcement of crosswalk laws and I suggest the penalties are way too low.
As a pedestrian, it is not at night, nor is it a lack of visibility but a total disregard for pedestrians by many drivers. Just can't be bothered to observe the laws.

[Keith P.]

Halifax has too many crosswalks, in the wrong locations, poorly marked, poorly lit, and pedestrians who seemingly believe they have a force field surrounding them. Not saying pedestrians are always to blame, but drivers are in a no-win situation much of the time. The decision-making on crosswalk placement is really bad here, and most of them are invisible at night.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

My solution would be that every pedestrian arm themselves with a small can of bright yellow spray paint. If a car drives thru when you are trying to cross the street you simply spray the side of the car.
I suspect this would clear up the situation very quickly.

?

I see the point you are trying to make, but that's the reason we don't see change, when assholes think this is the way to deal with these issues.

That's like the Coast's mentality. I don't disagree with all their end points, just all of their ways in getting there.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

?

I see the point you are trying to make, but that's the reason we don't see change, when assholes think this is the way to deal with these issues.

That's like the Coast's mentality. I don't disagree with all their end points, just all of their ways in getting there.

Would you like to find some manners and rephrase your comment?

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by HalifaxRetales

ideas for crosswalks

https://docs.google.com/presentation...0#slide=id.p13

In St. John's we use the continental style for crossings that are not as obvious, which tends to be many cross walks lol. as you can see here (a very long one in a very complicated intersection in St. John's http://goo.gl/maps/dANoa

Here's an intersection where they use both styles http://goo.gl/maps/a2AH8

Now they've started putting down stickers for the lines and arrows on the roads instead of paint (it's more expensive but is much more vibrant and lasts much longer)

[W.Sobchak]

All humour aside I find many pedestrians tend to take their liberties very freely and pay no attention to the flow of the traffic they are entering in, when they approach a crosswalk. I've lived by the rule of its easier to stop a 178 lbs me than a 2200lbs automobile.

But again I've almost been hit by rolling stops of drivers who were oblivious to the traffic in front of them.

I favour more to the pedestrian scramble, and round-abouts to ease the blending of pedestrians and drivers.

[Dmajackson]

There's been 7 car-pedestrian accidents this week alone so I think it's starting to become a very serious problem.

The latest accident was on Lacewood Drive at the Mainland North Pathway crossing (between the Canada Games Centre and Dunbrack St). It appears a jogger hit the lights, waited for the lane of traffic to stop but got hit by another vehicle passing the stopped cars. The driver was charged for failing to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

IMO it's a 72-25% split for blame in terms of drivers vs pedestrians. The majority of cases appear to be drivers not paying attention to their surroundings. HRM adopts Transportation Association of Canada guidelines when it comes to road designs so I think the problem is more of a lack of education which will take some strong willpower but is fixable.

For example I got my driver's license at the age of 16 like most suburban kids. During the road test in Sackville I did what many drivers do and went through a crosswalk before the pedestrian was completely across. Amazingly this did not cause me to fail automatically (instead it was a school zone in August that got me a few minutes later) but rather only a few points were taken off. I know what I did was wrong and now I wait no matter how wide the road but my point is risking a life is apparently okay.

I'm a strong believer of making sure all drivers are well-taught at the start of their driving lives and importantly retain the knowledge for as long as they are driving. Just renewing the drivers licenses every 5 years is not enough to ensure that all drivers know the laws of the road. In an ideal world I think it should be like this assuming that you applied for your beginners at 16 years old;

16 - Vision Test, Written Test, and beginner's license received. Only change here would be more emphasise on active transportation conflicts.

16.5 - Upgrade license to Class 5N (newbie) with current restrictions in place. Driving lessons required.

18 - Full license. Retake written and vision test. Written test must have high passing grade (80%+). License good for 2 years.

20 - Renewal of license. Vision test retaken. Any demerits or serious recorded accidents will require appropriate classes to be taken.

Licenses would then be valid for 5 years. Every OTHER renewal (10 years) requires a full application including vision, doctors medical, written test (with emphasise on new laws), and classes taken for every demerit point received (1 demerit = 1 weekend of classes).

50 - Due to potential for health problems (especially memory and attention) every 5-year renewal requires a full application.

70 - Renewal periods drop to 30 months (2.5 years). This continues until the person is no longer fit to drive as determined by their family doctor.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

There's been 7 car-pedestrian accidents this week alone so I think it's starting to become a very serious problem.

The latest accident was on Lacewood Drive at the Mainland North Pathway crossing (between the Canada Games Centre and Dunbrack St). It appears a jogger hit the lights, waited for the lane of traffic to stop but got hit by another vehicle passing the stopped cars. The driver was charged for failing to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

IMO it's a 72-25% split for blame in terms of drivers vs pedestrians. The majority of cases appear to be drivers not paying attention to their surroundings. HRM adopts Transportation Association of Canada guidelines when it comes to road designs so I think the problem is more of a lack of education which will take some strong willpower but is fixable.

For example I got my driver's license at the age of 16 like most suburban kids. During the road test in Sackville I did what many drivers do and went through a crosswalk before the pedestrian was completely across. Amazingly this did not cause me to fail automatically (instead it was a school zone in August that got me a few minutes later) but rather only a few points were taken off. I know what I did was wrong and now I wait no matter how wide the road but my point is risking a life is apparently okay.

I'm a strong believer of making sure all drivers are well-taught at the start of their driving lives and importantly retain the knowledge for as long as they are driving. Just renewing the drivers licenses every 5 years is not enough to ensure that all drivers know the laws of the road. In an ideal world I think it should be like this assuming that you applied for your beginners at 16 years old;

16 - Vision Test, Written Test, and beginner's license received. Only change here would be more emphasise on active transportation conflicts.

16.5 - Upgrade license to Class 5N (newbie) with current restrictions in place. Driving lessons required.

18 - Full license. Retake written and vision test. Written test must have high passing grade (80%+). License good for 2 years.

20 - Renewal of license. Vision test retaken. Any demerits or serious recorded accidents will require appropriate classes to be taken.

Licenses would then be valid for 5 years. Every OTHER renewal (10 years) requires a full application including vision, doctors medical, written test (with emphasise on new laws), and classes taken for every demerit point received (1 demerit = 1 weekend of classes).

50 - Due to potential for health problems (especially memory and attention) every 5-year renewal requires a full application.

70 - Renewal periods drop to 30 months (2.5 years). This continues until the person is no longer fit to drive as determined by their family doctor.

How long would one have to wait for a driving test. There is surely not enough workers to retest that many people.
How are we going to weed out the 35 year old women who seem to be the ones who try to run me over the most.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

There's been 7 car-pedestrian accidents this week alone so I think it's starting to become a very serious problem.

The latest accident was on Lacewood Drive at the Mainland North Pathway crossing (between the Canada Games Centre and Dunbrack St). It appears a jogger hit the lights, waited for the lane of traffic to stop but got hit by another vehicle passing the stopped cars. The driver was charged for failing to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

IMO it's a 72-25% split for blame in terms of drivers vs pedestrians. The majority of cases appear to be drivers not paying attention to their surroundings. HRM adopts Transportation Association of Canada guidelines when it comes to road designs so I think the problem is more of a lack of education which will take some strong willpower but is fixable.

For example I got my driver's license at the age of 16 like most suburban kids. During the road test in Sackville I did what many drivers do and went through a crosswalk before the pedestrian was completely across. Amazingly this did not cause me to fail automatically (instead it was a school zone in August that got me a few minutes later) but rather only a few points were taken off. I know what I did was wrong and now I wait no matter how wide the road but my point is risking a life is apparently okay.

I'm a strong believer of making sure all drivers are well-taught at the start of their driving lives and importantly retain the knowledge for as long as they are driving. Just renewing the drivers licenses every 5 years is not enough to ensure that all drivers know the laws of the road. In an ideal world I think it should be like this assuming that you applied for your beginners at 16 years old;

16 - Vision Test, Written Test, and beginner's license received. Only change here would be more emphasise on active transportation conflicts.

16.5 - Upgrade license to Class 5N (newbie) with current restrictions in place. Driving lessons required.

18 - Full license. Retake written and vision test. Written test must have high passing grade (80%+). License good for 2 years.

20 - Renewal of license. Vision test retaken. Any demerits or serious recorded accidents will require appropriate classes to be taken.

Licenses would then be valid for 5 years. Every OTHER renewal (10 years) requires a full application including vision, doctors medical, written test (with emphasise on new laws), and classes taken for every demerit point received (1 demerit = 1 weekend of classes).

50 - Due to potential for health problems (especially memory and attention) every 5-year renewal requires a full application.

70 - Renewal periods drop to 30 months (2.5 years). This continues until the person is no longer fit to drive as determined by their family doctor.

I fully agree with the necessity for higher standards for driving. However, I feel improving the skills/abilities of the drivers on the road has to start from day one. It is much too easy to get a driver's license in Canada.

Before any driver hits the road they should have to do more than just pass a written test and have good vision. In my opinion, there should be intensive training courses involving all aspects of driving, car maintenance and function, cause/effect relationship to accidents including the potentially deadly activities of texting and driving or alcohol/drug influence and driving, vehicle dynamics in all types of weather and road conditions including hands-on training in learning how to control a vehicle in slippery conditions. Young drivers need to be trained properly from day 1 and that will stick with them for life.

Yes, it will be expensive, and unfortunately that may delay the onset of driving until they are a little older, but it will also help invoke a sense of the seriousness of the matter and hopefully result in more mature and skilled drivers on our roads.

And I think the ratio should really be 50/50 cars/pedestrians. Obviously drivers need to think in real terms that they could kill somebody with their cars, but pedestrians equally need to get their heads away from their rights as pedestrians and realize that every time they cross the street their lives are in danger.

I don't know the details of the Lacewood accident, but I will say that I never cross a double lane of traffic without making sure that the second lane is clear before proceeding. Education!!!

[ILoveHalifax]

Regarding the number of pedestrians hit in crosswalks, CBC had a person on, who has gathered data over the last few years. Seems the bulk of the drivers and pedestrians involved in cross walk accidents were in their 20s. Seniors were not involved.