Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yes, but Anglo Montreal also has "dossiers" and "subventions", so they've pretty much lost any linguistic credibitlity!

Fair enough.

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No, but on the other hand there is an architectural style called an "Ontario Cottage" that people learn when they first go out house-hunting.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Cottage

It gets called a "Gothic Cottage" on this excellent website: http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/gothicottage.htm. But nobody actually calls them that. We use "Ontario Cottage" instead. You don't actually see them much in Toronto, but they're all over smaller towns

It's time for a revival.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No, but on the other hand there is an architectural style called an "Ontario Cottage" that people learn when they first go out house-hunting.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Cottage

It gets called a "Gothic Cottage" on this excellent website: http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/gothicottage.htm. But nobody actually calls them that. We use "Ontario Cottage" instead. You don't actually see them much in Toronto, but they're all over smaller towns

That would not fit the Quebec definition as it's not two storeys.

Here is a cottage in Quebec:

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No, but on the other hand there is an architectural style called an "Ontario Cottage" that people learn when they first go out house-hunting.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Cottage

It gets called a "Gothic Cottage" on this excellent website: http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/gothicottage.htm. But nobody actually calls them that. We use "Ontario Cottage" instead. You don't actually see them much in Toronto, but they're all over smaller towns

I was not familiar with that but I note the age of the house - I would be uncomfortable just lumping that in with "storey and a half detached", so its good to see it has its own moniker.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That would not fit the Quebec definition as it's not two storeys.

Here is a cottage in Quebec:

In Ontario, that's a "two storey detached". I guess you could call it a cottage if you built it on the shore of a lake!

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's interesting how certain British words are still used in Quebec by francophones.

For example, no one in Anglo-Canada says ''bloke'' for ''guy''.

Though it's largely died out, as recently as the 80s and 90s, ''bloke'' was a common slur for anglophones in Quebec.

As in ''esti de bloke!".

I haven't heard that in ages, although maybe that has something to do with the circles I am in!

Yeah I remember hearing maudit bloke, but mostly in the context of my parents' stories from childhood. That generation was always fighting.

[kwoldtimer]

I remember more than once chuckling when Jacques Parizeau referred to someone in English as a "chap". I use it myself upon occasion, but it too seems to be going the way of the dodo in Canadian English. On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if our French fact accounts for the odd way Canadians pronounce "garage"?

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That would not fit the Quebec definition as it's not two storeys.

Here is a cottage in Quebec:

I'm not so sure about the Ontario cottage not fitting the definition. The area where I live now is filled with 11/2 storey houses referred to as Cape Cod cottages. To me a cottage was any house with stairs that led upward.

[kwoldtimer]

edit

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by RueBulmer

I'm not so sure about the Ontario cottage not fitting the definition. The area where I live now is filled with 11/2 storey houses referred to as Cape Cod cottages. To me a cottage was any house with stairs that led upward.

As long as they are wood clad and have dormers, I guess it can pass.

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I was not familiar with that but I note the age of the house - I would be uncomfortable just lumping that in with "storey and a half detached", so its good to see it has its own moniker.

It's a surprisingly simple, workable design, perhaps the bigger surprise is that it wasn't more popular.

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

As long as they are wood clad and have dormers, I guess it can pass.

All brick here

Like this one up,the street

http://passerelle.centris.ca/redirec...1461531&Lang=E

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by RueBulmer

All brick here

Well then it's either "real estate speak" or a relic of older English (from England) usage.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by RueBulmer

It's a surprisingly simple, workable design, perhaps the bigger surprise is that it wasn't more popular.

It's not at all uncommon, as rousseau noted - the example he posted is in particularly nice condition and the contrasting brick quoining and double gothic window are better than average decorative touches, although the front door has lost some decorative detailing at some point, I suspect. You'd see them here most often in brick but, in some cases, stone. A house like that would probably date to something like 1850-1875 (just guessing) so many of them would have been altered over time or replaced by larger farmhouses.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

As long as they are wood clad and have dormers, I guess it can pass.

Not to be pedantic, but an "Ontario Cottage" aka "Gothic Cottage" is a very specific architectural form. It looks like the photo in my post above, and is always a one-storey brick house with a lived-in attic.

I'm surprised you didn't know the term, kwoldtimer, but then again that just further confirms my conjecture that people without a specific interest in architecture don't tend to know it until they go house-hunting and it gets mentioned by the realtor.

It always gets mentioned in real estate ads because it adds a certain classy and/or historical and/or even stately cachet. My wife and I went through two of them when looking for houses in Stratford.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW, group 2 (especially in the larger cities) is slowly merging with group 3 IMO.

We're just seeing a snapshot of what has been a centuries-long mass extinction event for small languages and dialects. Accents are merging everywhere. The "General Newfoundland" (or "General Atlantic Canada") accents are spoken today by younger (in the grew-up-post-WWII sense) people who in 1950 would have been almost unintelligible to those in other regions. This is true even in places like rural Newfoundland; young people don't speak like their grandparents. Actually you'll hear young people joke about how they have to find other old people to translate.

That being said there is some movement in the other direction too. In Atlantic Canada there hasn't just been imported culture from outside the region. There are also a lot of sayings, words, and sounds that would have only been endemic to a small part of the region in the past but are now ubiquitous.

Looking farther back in history makes the trends clear. For Nova Scotia specifically, English was not a strong majority language until the second half of the 1800's, and something that would register as British English today was dominant in the English parts. In 1900 people were talking about the decline of Gaelic and German in rural areas, not just accents. Gaelic specifically had the character of a "peasant language" that was abandoned by the younger generations as they became literate. In post-1713 Nova Scotia, if you, wanted to be successful, you had to speak English. Fast forward to today: practically everybody speaks English and even the accents have been pulled far toward the Canadian/American norm compared to what they were.

It's easy to see this in action. I've got older relatives (native French and English speakers) and a lot of aspects of how they speak are just not cool today. If a younger person spoke the same way people would look at them as though they had three heads. Then again, other things have survived. And I have my own anachronisms (or are they? I am not sure). "Ass" still sounds weird to me and isn't something I'd say in conversation; visit the Halifax subforum and you'll see a lot more "arse".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Not to be pedantic, but an "Ontario Cottage" aka "Gothic Cottage" is a very specific architectural form. It looks like the photo in my post above, and is always a one-storey brick house with a lived-in attic.

I'm surprised you didn't know the term, kwoldtimer, but then again that just further confirms my conjecture that people without a specific interest in architecture don't tend to know it until they go house-hunting and it gets mentioned by the realtor.

It always gets mentioned in real estate ads because it adds a certain classy and/or historical and/or even stately cachet. My wife and I went through two of them when looking for houses in Stratford.

No, it was new to me - I think I would have described the general style of the house as "gothic revival", but beyond that "gothic style farm house" is about the only thing I'd come up with, so knowing it has its own specific name is cool.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I remember more than once chuckling when Jacques Parizeau referred to someone in English as a "chap". I use it myself upon occasion, but it too seems to be going the way of the dodo in Canadian English. ?

He also used to say ''by jove'' a lot. Likely something he picked up when studying in London as opposed to growing up in pre-Quiet Revolution Montreal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

We're just seeing a snapshot of what has been a centuries-long mass extinction event for small languages and dialects. Accents are merging everywhere. The "General Newfoundland" (or "General Atlantic Canada") accents are spoken today by younger (in the grew-up-post-WWII sense) people who in 1950 would have been almost unintelligible to those in other regions. This is true even in places like rural Newfoundland; young people don't speak like their grandparents. Actually you'll hear young people joke about how they have to find other old people to translate.

That being said there is some movement in the other direction too. In Atlantic Canada there hasn't just been imported culture from outside the region. There are also a lot of sayings, words, and sounds that would have only been endemic to a small part of the region in the past but are now ubiquitous.

Looking farther back in history makes the trends clear. For Nova Scotia specifically, English was not a strong majority language until the second half of the 1800's, and something that would register as British English today was dominant in the English parts. In 1900 people were talking about the decline of Gaelic and German in rural areas, not just accents. Gaelic specifically had the character of a "peasant language" that was abandoned by the younger generations as they became literate. In post-1713 Nova Scotia, if you, wanted to be successful, you had to speak English. Fast forward to today: practically everybody speaks English and even the accents have been pulled far toward the Canadian/American norm compared to what they were.

It's easy to see this in action. I've got older relatives (native French and English speakers) and a lot of aspects of how they speak are just not cool today. If a younger person spoke the same way people would look at them as though they had three heads. Then again, other things have survived. And I have my own anachronisms (or are they? I am not sure). "Ass" still sounds weird to me and isn't something I'd say in conversation; visit the Halifax subforum and you'll see a lot more "arse".

I don't know if anyone here has had the experience like me of meeting young (twentysomething) Newfoundlanders with barely a hint of the Newfoundland accent.

So it's happening there too.

[SignalHillHiker]

It definitely is, but there are caveats.

There are pockets of the province that never had an accent strikingly different from the rest of Atlantic Canada to begin with, especially on the west and south coasts. I would be shocked if any of you would even guess Marty-Mcfly was from Atlantic Canada, let alone here. It's a bit like my grandmother, from Grantown-on-Spey near Inverness. She has a very generic accent that could be from anywhere in Canada.

And most of us have a "speaking with mainlanders" accent we throw on, even subconsciously. It's almost impossible for me to speak with a mainlander, or speak into a camera, or read something aloud, without getting rid of most of my accent. I'd never speak at a Canada-wide SSP meet-up the way I would at a local one, and it's not even something I try to accomplish.

It's still different enough that the local dialects are something you miss when away:

I needed Newfoundland in all its glory to survive. I needed the flashes of Signal Hill as I drove to work, the sound of skidoos in my yard, the boats rolling in, the loud horns coming from the dock. I needed caplin on the fire, the sound of my language on every street corner and bumping into people I know and love while I am running errands. It’s what I knew, it’s what I needed and it’s unique to our island.

http://tintofink.com/budget-2016-a-h...dland-culture/

There are lots of generic Valley Girls in urban high schools and the like too. This is the one that really bothers me. There's a certain melodic flow with which people here speak, whether their accent is rooted in Devon or Waterford. It's warm, genuine, and has a sense of humor. When that's missing, I notice it far more than people enunciating or pronouncing something in a more mainland way. Valley Girls are the best example of that. Raising at the end of every sentence and whatnot.

But every other kid still has an identifiable, local accent.

• Video Link

Where we've really lost is in vocabulary. I probably only use one out of every 100 words in the Newfoundland English dictionary in my daily life. My parents probably use 50/100. My grandparents (excluding the one from Scotland, of course) used even more. The expressions have simplified and become more universal across Newfoundland.

Mummering has replaced jannying almost everywhere. Etc. And lots of words you never hear anymore. Just breaking open the dictionary and there are dozens of examples of every page, such as:

Frore - frozen solid.
Callibogus - warmed spruce beer with gin.
Pod auger - living carelessly.

Of course, most of these words only existed in one or two communities that probably don't exist anymore.

But, as someone123 points out, still lots of parents here as well threatening to redden their youngsters' arses.