George Massey Tunnel Replacement | Proposed

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Kisai

BC Ferries/Translink would be better off building a new ferry terminal closer to the airport than trying to extend the Canada Line to the existing one (which is 60 years old) and incorporating the bus stops closer to the ferry berth.

For those who haven't tried to get to the Ferry on foot. You take the 620 from the Canada Line, the Bus takes 35-50 minutes, arrives 5 minutes before the Ferry arrives typically, and is still a good 10 minute hike through the terminal and then you have to squeeze into the tiny waiting area at the end.

On more than one occasion, the ferry has pulled in , and there are lines going all the way back to Berth 2 from Berth 5. The Ferry terminal waiting area is quite literately too small for the foot traffic it serves, but at the same time it sprawls where an airport would have a people mover or a moving sidewalk. I have to wonder how much of a pain it for people in wheelchairs/mobility scooters to walk on. So why not just move the transit closer to waiting area.

Every time I hear "it doesn't make sense to extend the Canada Line" I think the person hasn't put any serious thought into it. No I don't think the Canada Line needs to extended into the middle of ALR, but the 620 is insufficient, but the ferry frequency doesn't work with a rapid transit line, or perhaps it would work better if people didn't need to take their car. So while right not it doesn't make sense, there's no matching rapid transit on the other side, there's no rapid transit at all on Victoria's side.

So to put this back into context, if the ferry terminal was on Richmond's side of the tunnel, a whole bunch of that car traffic would would have to shift, as suddenly all the ferry traffic wouldn't have to go through the tunnel, they would now have three ways to go, and would be closer to the Airport.

But I digress, "we don't need to extend the Canada Line" is short-sighted thinking. If they put space on the tunnel for a rapid transit line, the Canada Line should be extended through it, through Ladner, Tsawwassen Mills, and the Ferry Terminal. It doesn't need to be on day 1, but it should be guaranteed so short-sighted government people don't change their mind and convert the space into car space.

If you're going to move the ferry terminal, then indeed it makes no sense to extend the Canada. Lander and Tswaseen are tiny, and comparable in population to freaking Walnut Grove.

[proudcanuck]

I have noticed in my commute last night and today that Black & McDonald are setting up construction trailers, a sea can and building a temporary arched tent structure at the site of the old weigh scale on the north side of the tunnel. Super Save Fence rentals had a truck there this morning so they are obviously setting up a perimeter fence.

So the question is... does anyone know what project they may be doing?

[flipper316]

https://www.delta-optimist.com/news/...ing-1.24130056

So 60 plus million for the hydro relocation and preloading were done then cancelling the bridge. Now 40 million for this project. What a joke the NDP is.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.delta-optimist.com/news/...ing-1.24130056

So 60 plus million for the hydro relocation and preloading were done then cancelling the bridge. Now 40 million for this project. What a joke the NDP is.

This thing is never getting replaced. And the highways on either side still has sand piled along the shoulders. It’s become a national embarrassment. I wonder what people from Washington state think when they cross the border and drive on HWY 99.

[Marshal]

Never? My god the drama.

I've been around enough, privately and professionally, and have lived all over, and almost every place I know of has had or still does have their own hobby horse of an embarrassment. My friends in Seattle are not impressed with their roads either.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Never? My god the drama.

I've been around enough, privately and professionally, and have lived all over, and almost every place I know of has had or still does have their own hobby horse of an embarrassment. My friends in Seattle are not impressed with their roads either.

Are you making excuses for our third world highway infrastructure? I can’t tell

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by libtard

Are you making excuses for our third world highway infrastructure? I can’t tell

"third world"

[cganuelas1995]

If people currently working from home, are gonna continue working from home after this all blows over, hopefully, then we could probably scale down the bridge replacement to 6+2 bus lanes.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Depends on how many GMT commuters are white collars with a fixed destination.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.delta-optimist.com/news/...ing-1.24130056

So 60 plus million for the hydro relocation and preloading were done then cancelling the bridge. Now 40 million for this project. What a joke the NDP is.

i like it.

this will take construction up to 2021. and the new bridge was meant to open in 2022. literally, we are spending 100 million to upgrade a 70yr old tunnel that was supposed to close a year after these "upgrades" are complete. this is pathetic.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by libtard

Are you making excuses for our third world highway infrastructure? I can’t tell

No, not excuses. The comment is more directed against hyperbole that never helps any discussion, and in favour of more sober thought: simplified to 'what we have,' 'what we need,' and 'what would get us there.'

[I wasn't going to respond, but I talked to a planner friend in London (UK) last night. He went a bit hyperbolic about London's relatively narrow dual carriageways, and even more so about London's full freeway plan and how a) it is incomplete, and b) it seems it never will be. All with the expected resulting endless traffic snarls. It was on his mind because he had been to Australia in November and was shocked that Melbourne and Sydney were not connected by a proper expressway.]

This kind of stuff exists everywhere. My personal experience, or that of informed people I know or have worked with, includes the dissatisfaction of road networks in Australia, UK (all city and intercity routes), France, Switzerland (Zurich, 'getting around Lake Constance), Austria (esp. Vienna-Prague), Milan (routes within the inner sphere), Rome (everything), Florence-Pistoia, Germany (yes, even Germany-autobahn routes connecting Munich to the north, east and west are all too narrow: 4 lanes, some 6, needs lots of 8, even 10), also autobahn maintenance which means the routes are hindered by long sections of reduced lane construction with slow speeds (I drove from Winterthur to Munich and the road alternated between super fast normal autobahn and 7 sections of 2-10kms of 80km/hr craziness.

That's probably enough, but to hammer the point, off the top of my head: people I know who complain about their embarrassing highways in: Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, NYC, Baltimore, Philly, LA, SF, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Chicago, Portland, Salt Lake City . . . . god, I'm surprising myself, it seems close to universal. Turns out there are countless Patullo Bridges out there.

So, we see our crappy system clearly. But when we make comparisons to others, perhaps we see the good we remember and don't understand their full perspective very clearly.

[Metro-One]

Opinion: BC government's economic stimulus must include new infrastructure spending...

When it comes to “shovel ready,” no project in the nation could fit this term better than the cancelled George Massey Bridge project, which also included roughly 30 km of highway upgrades and a true rapid bus system along the Highway 99 corridor...

Before its cancellation, the lowest bid for the George Massey Bridge project was $2.6 billion dollars — a bargain compared to the estimated $4 billion to $5 billion for the eight-lane immersed tube tunnel being proposed today, which does not include major upgrades to the aging Highway 99 or a true rapid bus system.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-e...e-restart-plan

[libtard]

When did the design change from this

Images removed due to lack of citation

To this

Images removed due to lack of citation

[Metro-One]

The first image is a very old place holder design when the project was first announced. The second image was a more finalized design of the now cancelled project.

The current iteration with a tunnel is even worse than the place holder image, essentially not changing then interchange at all and retaining all old structures.

We sure won big on this one!

2.6 billion for a new bridge, true rapid bus system, major interchange rebuilds and 30 km of highway upgrade cancelled for a 4 to 5 billion dollar tunnel with shoulder bus stops with little interchange upgrades and retention of old overpass structures!

But at least the mayor of Richmond is happy that he doesn’t have to see big old bridges and overpasses in the so beautiful district of the Steveston Interchange of mega churches and industrial warehouses.

[libtard]

Having an entrance ramp for general traffic merge onto the inside lane is out dated and dangerous. Doesn’t make any sense

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by libtard

Having an entrance ramp for general traffic merge onto the inside lane is out dated and dangerous. Doesn’t make any sense

I agree, but it doesn’t matter anymore to comment on that design since that project is dead, unless the NDP puts politics aside and resurrects it for its superior cost benefit.

Don’t worry, the new design we are getting with the tunnel project is far far more dangerous. Again, shoulder bus stops with no new ramp structures

[Marshal]

Lets be real though: 2.6 billion for the Liberal dream design is laughable. That budget was never going to hold.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I agree, but it doesn’t matter anymore to comment on that design since that project is dead, unless the NDP puts politics aside and resurrects it for its superior cost benefit.

Don’t worry, the new design we are getting with the tunnel project is far far more dangerous. Again, shoulder bus stops with no new ramp structures

Do we actually expect anyone to be getting on/off buses at that location.

[Metro-One]

That wasn’t a proposed budget devised by the government, that was a bid put forward by a private contractor.

The Golden Nears Bridge along with its viaducts, ramps, interchanges and roadway was under 1 billion, so not too hard to imagine.

[Mininari]

At this rate, no shovels are going to be in the ground for a tunnel replacement before an election. The environmental certification process that a tunnel would require will take years. That $40M in "interm improvements" is likely going to get flushed down the toilet, just like the 'fifth lane' on the previous Port Mann Bridge.

As much as I could see the liberals resurrecting their cancelled project with a win in 2021, I cannot speculate how all the new NDP taxes, Liberal dumpster fire parades, Legislature 'perp walks', Green betrayals (LNG approval), and now the Covid-19 pandemic and corresponding economic calamity are going to weigh on voter's minds. That, and many of us have had a 'hard' shift to working at home. It will be interesting to see how quickly traffic volumes recover to previous levels, and if they stabilize at a new normal where some of the white-collar types are working from home more. Obviously, there are many who are not and cannot work from home. That said, an 8 lane bridge with NEW interchanges might be an acceptable compromise, or a bridge deck with enough space for 10 lanes, but striped with 8 on opening day, leaving adequate shoulder space for breakdowns, and protected active transportation opportunities ... and later to 10 lanes in the future if needed. An 8 lane tunnel drives me crazy in this respect, because one simply does not widen a tunnel.

Retaining the OLD interchanges is an embarrassment, keeps our highways rooted in '60's design standards, and does not make sense given that new structures would be constructed to modern seismic standards.

High-volume merging zones like the 17A / 17 merge points need a modern upgrade. The old vs new Cape Horn interchange is a great example of this -- the whole interchange cost a fortune, but it functions extremely well. Hwy 99 / 17A would greatly benefit from this at all times of the day. The old Cape Horn was a 'little' bridge with a tight loop ramp for access to Hwy 1 EB, and was a daily gong show in the afternoon rush hour. The remnant barrier-divided section on Lougheed Highway WB, starting at the United Boulevard / Mariner Way overpass is a monument to how much congestion there used to be here (on-ramp was widened to two lanes, and barrier separated to prevent queue-jumping).