Centennial Mills Redevelopment | Proposed

[65MAX]

^^^^
Where?
I looked and can't find them anywhere on that site. Can you give us a direct link to the correct page?

[Stepping Razor]

http://www.centennialmills.org/opportunity/

Just click on the name of each developer to download their respective proposals in pdf.

[IHEARTPDX]

Links to Centennial Mills proposals (pdf's)

Lab Holding

Nitze-Stagen

The Cordish Company

[pdx2m2]

Last nights developer/architect team presentations on the Mill were interesting. Would enjoy hearing from others who were there.

I thought the Cordish presentation and proposal is the most banal and un-Portland. The company kept showing big developments across the US with the implication that they did it in Kansas and Miami and could do the same thing here. They do seem to have deep pockets although the team and proposal lacked any soul. The architect seems to be virtually their 'in house' architect and most of the talk of retail tenants, restaurants seemed pretty bland.

The Nitze-Stagen, ZGF, Pete Walker proposal and team was probably the most professional and thorough although not sure the solution is the best for the site. They have a little bit of everything including tons of non-profit, cultural stuff which sounds great although it looks like they pay for all this free or low rent space with the huge office, condo towers that flank the old mill. The mill seems to get a little lost in the proposal...it's certainly a small part. My main concern about this proposal is the height and density along the water. I"m all for more height and density although not sure 225' towers with large floor plates at the waters edge is good for the city and the neighborhood. This development would block virtually all the view of the river from the rest of the Pearl. The proposals for two pedestrian bridges is admirable although it's hard to get one good bridge funded much less two. I think the two bridge proposal is partly that Pete W. doesn't like Cheryl Bartons new bridge location and still wants the bridge from his master plan. This team is strong and the proposal might be a better one if the density were a bit lower which the team said was possible.

The LAB proposal is the most modest and more than the others really highlights the mill. This team also has the best architect in my opinion although the drawings in the proposal are a bit creepy and hard to follow. Their mill renovation...Mill City Renovation is stunning. I like the park, the open space and the preservation of the mill in this proposal although don't know if there is enough density to make the place really active and financially viable. I also don't know about the developer...he is passionate, hates chain retail and is seeking something local and authentic with soul...that said he was a little wacky in the presentation.

Would love to hear reactions from others.

[tworivers]

I don't know if I can add much more than you have written.

The Cordish proposal should be avoided at all costs.

I was definitely swayed by the Lab proposal, particularly the architect's presentation. His idea of complementing the old buildings with unabashed contemporary architecture could take the whole project to the next level. That said, the "creepy" (dark and vaguely apocalyptic) drawings are what put me off their proposal in the first place. And I hated it when the lead developer guy took the microphone away from his wife and project partner at the very end and didn't let her say her piece. Lastly, I'm not at all sure about their programming and how it will actually fit together and bring a wide cross-section of people, both local and visiting, down there. And I think having a residential component, having people living on-site, is important.

The Nitze-Stagen people were definitely the most professional, but they also seemed kind of smug. I'm re-thinking, too, my initial positive response to the riverside density and the role of the mills.

As long as the PDC doesn't pull another bridgehead act, I'll be happy. Or at least curious.

[tworivers]

Here's what Mike Thelin has to say over at PDX Spaces.

[cab]

From a pure architecture standpoint, LAB is by far the best. Centennial Mills is very similar to the Mill City project designed by the lead architect of the LAB team. I'll echo others and say that project is stunning and you can see its influence in the PDX project. The pedestrian bridge entrance into the big cut in the larger mill building is amazing. This will be a fitting finally of the boardwalk that flows through the pearl.

The others seem insular and don't make much of a connection to what is happening to the West. You have the suburban crap that is cornish and the Has been architecture of ZGF (when is the last time they created anything worth a mention?)

If the LAB project can incorporate enough unique draws (museum, public market, etc) then I'd say they are a slam dunk.

[ericb4prez]

the cordish plan doesn't offend me too much. it would be nice to have a good hub of shopping, restaurants and nightlife and that wouldn't be a bad neighborhood to have it.

portland is really lacking in the nightlife realm compared to other cities of its size and a project like this could be a good kick start for it.

[CUclimber]

I think the LAB plan is much too 'granola' and would benefit immensely with some commercial/office space. A combination of the LAB and Nitze-Stagen proposals would be a good combination, I think.

[zilfondel]

I don't think that the Mill site should be completely overwhelmed by new architecture - the scale of the portland team is a bit over the top, IMO. And I just don't get the deal with the dual bridges.

Also, dispersing office here and there in the Pearl... might not be the best use for a waterfront location? Anyone agree? Just a thought...

[philopdx]

The Cordish plan I think is absolute rubbish, it doesn't fit well at all with Portland, or even the Pacific Northwest. I could see it going in at a Bricktown (OK City), or a suburb of Atlanta, Denver, Charlotte, Tampa or Phoenix. In fact, this things SCREAMS suburbia, is very corporate and lacking any character. It's just another outdoor shopping mall.

The Nitze-Stagen I like best, because it reminds of some of my favorite redeveloped spaces in Europe; with the original brick buildings serving as a foundation, but with soaring, bright glass structures overhead or in close proximity. It's a very nice contrast and has a classy, modern feel to it. Reminds of a slightly warmer version of something I'd find in Vancouver, BC, which is no bad thing.

The LAB project is ok, but not particularly ambitious. We live in a thriving city, and cities conjure an image of density and energy. The LAB would fit well in an Omaha, Sioux City, St Louis, Memphis, Sioux Falls or the Quad Cities (Davenport IA/Moline, IL). These are cities that aren't particularly culturally relevant, but have a nice, insular "river history" feel to them. And architecturally speaking, they are overwhelmed by the color BROWN.

These other river cities (save for St. Louis) don't have the transit systems or the density we aim for. In that respect we have much more in common with Seattle and Vancouver (and maybe just a wee bit of San Fran) than we do with any of those other places and I think that's the image we need to strive for.

[zilfondel]

^ Have you seen Granville Island? There are no highrises around it.

It's a tough question, whether the site should be developed at that kind of scale. Not many places in Europe sport highrises, much less that close to a historic site...

At the same time, I absolutely love it. They have a very well thought-out proposal, covering all different aspects of the site: transit, sustainability, function, financial, etc.

I guess we'll see how the process goes... not sure which one I would vote for yet, but...

[philopdx]

Sure, I agree there aren't many highrises in Europe, but there's quite a bit of new postmodern glassy development all around historical places.

Take, for example, the 70 foot glass and metal pyramid right there smack in the middle of Louvre, one of the most historic places in all of Europe.


Another example would be the Guggenheim museum in Spain or maybe terminal 4 at Barajas airport. One that stands out in particular is The Dancing House in Prague. These buildings may be a stark contrast to the extremely old buildings around them, but they do prod and poke a little bit and make you realize you live in the 21st century, not the 18th!!

Guggenheim:


Dancing House:


But in America, we tend to take things one step further and make our buildings a bit taller. A perfect example of blending old and new is the Hearst building in NYC, which has the historical base and a towering multifaceted glass box soaring above it. I think it's a great compromise of old and new, since they could have just as easily razed the old building to the foundation!


And for Vancouver's Granville Island, there are no highrises immediately adjacent to the property, that is true. But take a look at this photo of Granville Island to see what I mean about the contrast of low and high, it's quite pleasing!

[PacificNW]

Nice work, philopdx! Thanks for taking the time to run around the city with your camera...especially for us who no longer live in the Rose City... I especially like this last posting regarding the Centennial Mills Renovation...I enjoyed seeing the projects you have illustrated, (showing the contrasts in architecture of different periods/era's), sitting next to one another.

[zilfondel]

I was talking about scale, not modernity or not.

However, places like the Bilbao Guggenheim and Barajas airport were built apart from the rest of the city, not integrated into historical sites.

[philopdx]

Yes, you are correct, the airport and museum were not built in the city center. I can see how avoiding large scale development at the Mill would please traditionalists, however I know a LOT of people (mostly from my Red state past) who would like see the whole damn rusty thing razed to make room for something new and shiny and vapid (and car friendly, no less!).

I passionately feel we can have the best of both worlds and acknowledge the past, while adding a new dynamic element to the area and acknowledging that we are part of a vibrant city that people actually inhabit and not a museum that people visit twice a year.

It boils down to different strokes for different folks I guess, and while I could not hide my disappointment at no new development on site, I'll be OK as long as the Cordish crap doesn't see the light of day.

[Sioux612]

An editorial in today's Oregonian argues for the development proposal by Nitze-Stagen of Seattle (with Portland's Zimmer Gunsul Frasca as architect) to be the choice for Centennial Mills.

-portlandarchitecture.com

Lab is drab. Nitze-Stagen is my top choice. Their proposal is very vibrant!

[MarkDaMan]

^I dunno, Lab seems very Portland. Modest, sustainable, something your wont find in ANY other city. Open space, respect for the mill.

Remember, the entire mill was going to be torn down for ballfields and open space. I think keeping some of the existing buildings with little addition, and additional green space keeps with the original intent.

The NS proposal belongs on the Hoyt Street land, not on a part of the river that was dedicated to open space and connectivity to the Willamette.

Some idiot will choose Cordish though. They wont get it together and we have another Burnside Bridgehead project. In fact, I see that happening with NS too.

[CUclimber]

^I dunno, Lab seems very Portland. Modest, sustainable, something your wont find in ANY other city. Open space, respect for the mill.

I see your point, but I think that it may be too Portland, in a way. At some point we're going to have to ask ourselves how many public markets we can sustain without them becoming a cliche. We have farmer's markets every day of the week, Saturday Market on weekends just a few blocks South of this site, First/Last Thursdays, and any number of other small neighborhood public gathering places.

Believe me, I think that they are all wonderful parts of our city and I think that overall we're much better for them. We need to ask ourselves though, if it is in the best interest of the city's long-term growth to choose such a premier spot on the river for another green/open/public/headline-grabbing space. I think that their hearts are in the right spot, but I think that we as a city need to show that these ideas can be sucessfully combined with more traditional office, retail, and residential spaces rather than existing all on their own on the other side of the train tracks.

[tworivers]

I feel split between N-S and LAB 50/50 right now.

Some idiot will choose Cordish though.

Please... don't say that.