Possible New Downtown Stores - Page 3

fastcarsfreedom · #41 Posted **Nov 19, 2007, 11:01 PM**

Unless you have some specific insider info, it would be impossible to make any statement or judgement about what "shape" The Bay, or HBC for that matter are in, considering they are privately held business and haven't released financials publically since fiscal 2005. They currently have a store renovation/restoration program underway (Downtown Montreal, the former Morgan's flagship, is completely shrouded in scaffolding) and there is currently one new full line Bay store under construction--a replacement location--in Waterloo, Ontario.

raisethehammer · #42 Posted **Nov 19, 2007, 11:42 PM**

yea, I haven't heard of a new Bay store opening in a long time.
anyone know when their last new opening was??

miketoronto · #43 Posted **Nov 20, 2007, 1:20 AM**

The newest Bay store was the Polo Park store in Winnipeg. This is sort of a sad opening, as they opened the Polo Park store a couple years ago, and downsized the downtown store which is only like 10min down the road, at the same time.

The Bay I am very proud of for renovating the downtown stores. They really are putting a lot of energy into the downtown flagships. I was just at Christmas Street in the Queen Street store, and they did a great job. Much better then years past. So they are upping their style again.

How large was the downtown Hamilton EATONS?

I wonder why The Bay pulled out of places like downtown London and never built in Hamilton? They go on how these downtowns are dead and all that. Yet if you go to London, they have a family owned department store downtown that is going strong for over one hundred years, and even expanded a couple years ago with a whole new department. The store is even complete with an old fashioned elevator with an operator. So they can make a go of it, why can't the chains????????

Anyway I understand you want your chains. But also remember that downtown needs some unique stuff also, otherwise Hamilton will be no different then a mall, or any other corporate downtown street in another city. You need the chains, but also a good dose of local.

fastcarsfreedom · #44 Posted **Nov 20, 2007, 7:45 AM**

On that point Miketoronto--we agree. There absolutely needs to be a blend of chain stores and unique destination stores.

The "original" downtown Eaton's was enormous--I recall it having 6 above ground levels and one below--though my math maybe off. The bulk of the store was early 20th century and was originally a department store called The Arcade before Eaton's bought it...I believe in the 1920s (again, my timelines are weak). There were a couple of significant additions to the building in the 1960s (replacing the demolished City Hall) and in the 1970s (to connect the store to Jackson Square.) You're guess is as good as mine on square footage as it was a hodge-podge--but a big, beautiful store with a ton of character. Downtown Eaton's V2 opened in 1990 as part of the Hamilton Eaton Centre (now HCC) development. It was 4 levels--really looked a large version of a suburban store with 4 levels--based on that I'd ballpark the square footable at 300,000...but that's an uneducated guess.

London, Ontario is by my estimation as wiped-out in terms of downtown retail as Hamilton. When Eaton's folded it hit the Galleria very hard--and then The Bay left for greener pastures (the former Eaton's location at Masonville) and the downturn worsened even moreso.

As for why The Bay never appeared in downtown Hamilton--who knows for sure, but The Bay's presence in Hamilton is relatively recent. The major downtown department stores having been Eaton's, Hamilton-based Robinson's, and The Right House--owned by U.S. chain Mercantile Stores. The Bay broke into the Hamilton market in the early 1990s by buying up the bulk of the Robinson's chain--Centre Mall and Burlington Mall became Zellers--Lime Ridge and Eastgate became The Bay--and the downtown Robinson's was simply closed. Agreed also that The Bay's work on it's downtown flagships is admirable--Queen Street in Toronto (let's call it Simpsons for good measure) is impressive indeed.

coalminecanary · #45 Posted **Nov 20, 2007, 5:20 PM**

i'd also like to see a bulk barn

miketoronto · #46 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 3:45 AM**

Maybe Hamilton should have talks with Kingsmill Department Store in Downtown London, Ontario on opening a branch in downtown Hamilton.

I think Kingsmill shows that a business can survive in our smaller downtowns and do well.

Kingsmill is a department store that has been operating in downtown Longon since 1865, and is still run by the family of the founder.

Instead of folding, the store has grown with the trends, and shows department stores can survive, by updating themselves.

Just think if a local store like this was opening in Hamilton. Not only would it provide goods to inner city residents, but it could also be a local destination at that.

Photo courtesy of Heritage London.

To take a tour of the store click on
http://www.kingsmills.com/tour/kitchen.html

Just think if even a local business person opened a store like this again in downtown Hamilton.

flar · #47 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 4:30 AM**

I went to Kingsmill's occasionally when I lived in London, mostly to admire the building and go for a ride on the manual elevator. It's an elegant store and a bit pricey. I always saw rich old ladies shopping in there, I hope it can survive after they're gone. I doubt they would expand anywhere. I think they actually used to have a second store in London.

fastcarsfreedom · #48 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 7:06 AM**

Ahhh...but the BANK of manual elevators in the old Eaton's really kicked ass.

DC83 · #49 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 1:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Ahhh...but the BANK of manual elevators in the old Eaton's really kicked ass.

That's the only thing I remember about the old Eaton's downtown (Ham).

re: dept stores, I would LOVE to see a Sporting Life open up downtown! But it's kind of pricey/posh for downtown Hamilton. So I'm just dreaming I guess.

miketoronto · #50 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 2:02 PM**

A downtown needs a mix of everything, including posh and regular stores. So bring in the posh stores to

One thing to remember is to make downtown for everyone and not just the rich. Some downtowns like Pittsburgh and Cincinatti are trying just to attract the super rich stores, and I think that is one problem they are having problems. Because they are not trying to serve all shoppers.
So keep the mix.

DC83 · #51 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 3:03 PM**

Problem with Hamilton, Mike, is that the super-rich will most likely never shop downtown Hamilton.
They'd be more likely to drive the extra 45 mins to shop/play downtown Toronto.
It makes me angry b/c some people I know (who aren't "rich") will choose to go to the same event in downtown TO rather than downtown Ham simply b/c they're scared of downtown Ham.

This is what someone I know said to me the other day when I was telling them about the Trans-Siberian Orchestra:
"Why don't u just go see them at the ACC?"
"Ummmm, b/c Copps is a 10 min walk from me?!?!"
"Ya... but that's downtown..."

Sadly this is how most Mountaineers think.
ps: she was from the Mtn! haha

raisethehammer · #52 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 3:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC83

Problem with Hamilton, Mike, is that the super-rich will most likely never shop downtown Hamilton.
They'd be more likely to drive the extra 45 mins to shop/play downtown Toronto.
It makes me angry b/c some people I know (who aren't "rich") will choose to go to the same event in downtown TO rather than downtown Ham simply b/c they're scared of downtown Ham.

This is what someone I know said to me the other day when I was telling them about the Trans-Siberian Orchestra:
"Why don't u just go see them at the ACC?"
"Ummmm, b/c Copps is a 10 min walk from me?!?!"
"Ya... but that's downtown..."

Sadly this is how most Mountaineers think.
ps: she was from the Mtn! haha

yea, I know people like that too. just laugh at them and don't worry about it.
folks like us are the ones who can do the opposite - I buy/do EVERYTHING downtown. If more downtown area residents do this, we'll be fine.

DC83 · #53 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 3:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

yea, I know people like that too. just laugh at them and don't worry about it.
folks like us are the ones who can do the opposite - I buy/do EVERYTHING downtown. If more downtown area residents do this, we'll be fine.

Well the demographics are changing, and more and more young people such as ourselves are moving downtown for the Convenience Factor.
There's actually another guy my age from upper stoney creek (where I grew up) who lives in my bldg too. He moved downtown for the sake of living in an urban environment, which imo, is the way most people my age going.

It's the boomers/elderly who still see downtown as a craphole b/c they were sold suburban homes when they 1st started developing 50 years or so ago. ie: my mom and her ignorant views towards the city's centre. They were brainwashed by developers years ago, and sorry to say, but I don't think people now-a-days are as easily persuaded. Especially the young, affluent, educated crowd! THESE are the ones moving downtown these days! And it will be them (us) who turns this core around.

the dude · #54 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 4:32 PM**

perhaps, though none of my friends live downtown. they're scared shitless of it. i have a friend in westdale, a friend in dundas and the rest are scattered around ancaster [gag], burlington [yawn] and grimsby [yuck]. and they all live in the same type of house: cookie-cutter, faux column mcmansion. young people are still very drawn to the burbs, at least among my friends. for most people it's a natural thing to live in these places, so it's tough to break the habit.

raisethehammer · #55 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 6:03 PM**

yea, the younger ones are the ones flocking back downtown...I can't believe how many people have moved into my neighbourhood in the past 4 years who are young marrieds or single...small children all over the place now. it wasn't like that when we moved in.
Young people are bored with the suburbs.

DC83 · #56 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

yea, the younger ones are the ones flocking back downtown...I can't believe how many people have moved into my neighbourhood in the past 4 years who are young marrieds or single...small children all over the place now. it wasn't like that when we moved in.
Young people are bored with the suburbs.

Everytime I walk thru Strathcona, I see more and more houses being reno'd/flipped.
Corktown is also in a similar boat. Infact, some guy bought 4 of the 6 houses along Patrick St (behind the Olympia) last year and flipped them all and sold them w/in the year!

Most people doing these renos/flips are younger, more affluent families or ppl planning on starting families.

So despite the majority of suburanites having this preconceived notion that downtown is evil/dirty, there's still a growing # of people who see otherwise... and those are the poeple we see moving into our urban hoods. Well, them and some GTA yuppies!

and getting back on subject, it is THEM (US) that will demand new retail in our city's centre!

raisethehammer · #57 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 7:04 PM**

yup....that's why the guy bought up the Corktown and did the huge reno. He even made the comment in his Spec interview that "people don't have any clue what's going on down here".
Same with the guys from Honest Lawyer, same with the guys from London Taps...the momentum is growing for sure. One house and building at a time.

miketoronto · #58 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 11:10 PM**

Suburbanites still go downtown though. Whenever I am in Hamilton and ride the HSR, the buses from the mountain are packed with people going into downtown. So I don't think it is easy to paint all suburbanites as scared

The thing that bothers me sometimes is that we basically are counting on residents right in downtown and the surrounding neighbourhoods to keep downtown healthy. And we are sort of almost putting the verdict down, that downtown will never be a true centre of the region anymore, and just a local area for downtowners who live there. I still have a problem with reducing a downtown area to that of just a local neighbourhood. I would still like to see our city centre's reclaim the status of the "centre" they should be.

flar · #59 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 11:36 PM**

Decentralization seems to be a peculiarity of Hamilton. I've mentioned it before, but there's never any buzz about citywide events. Everyone sticks to their local area. Every BIA in Hamilton has their own festivals, etc. They are usually well attended but the ones that are "Hamilton wide" are often not. Nobody usually even knows about them. Back in London, every major event was downtown, and everyone knew about it, and they were always well attended. But that city didn't have as many well defined independent neighbourhoods and suburbs like Hamilton does.

coalminecanary · #60 Posted **Nov 21, 2007, 11:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC83

re: dept stores, I would LOVE to see a Sporting Life open up downtown!

Funny just this week I proposed sporting life to ecdev as a possible retailer to target for moving into the fed building since it seems mec is blind to this opportunity :-p