HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Suburbs


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 5:34 PM
Marshsparrow Marshsparrow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,047
I'm not proposing the entire swath of greenbelt or experimental farm be suburban blight... we could be very innovative to develop the space and have a great balance between housing, jobs, greenspace, civic buildings, etc. I am dumbounded each time driving to Orleans or Kanata how much space is just there... taking 20-30% of it would make a considerable difference in addressing supply if done right!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 5:49 PM
RuralCitizen RuralCitizen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ottawa Area
Posts: 184
I agree that it is possible to repurpose small portions of the greenbelt without making it a significant loss of the protected greenspace.

But once we start taking chunks of it, it will be very hard to stop, or saying no to developers. It establishes a precedent.

It is sad that we have to resolve to hard dividing lines for the purpose of protecting the environment, wild life, ...
In an ideal world, urban and wild would be a gradiant, with branches interweaving.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2020, 12:08 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 467
Redevelopment of the Greenbelt is quite simple, first classify the lands by ecological sensitivity, those low sensitive lands could be sold off in stage & developed contingent on NCC using 100% of proceeds to buy up ecologically sensitive lands elsewhere in Ottawa. That's a win-win.
Oh yeah... and that Experimental Farm....

Let's face it, if we restrict development land too much, it just bumps up the price. Sure that's good for the 50 year old who's been living in their house for 25 years with no mortgage, but it makes it impossible the next generation to ever afford a house. Furthermore, we end up pushing more development outside the city (Gatineau or Kemptville, Rockland Carleton Place, Embrun etc...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 5:08 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Some cross posting warranted here. The City is considering the lands to make-up the shortfall of the phase 1 urban boundary expansion, but have some concerns. The Algonquins of Ontario are arguing for full inclusion of lands lands as part of Stage 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
A closer look at the Algonquins of Ontario Lands, "Tewin". A spokesperson for the Algonquin Peoples spoke at the meeting to argue the inclusion of the entire parcel of land.


https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...37940090941444

Quote:
Kate Porter
@KatePorterCBC


City staff cited "very high" costs to take water, sewer servicing to Tewin. Sensitive marine clays would mean all housing would be on sump pumps, etc.

Algonquins of Ontario: we have a team of engineers, dispute #ottcity staff conclusions about whether we're ready for development

11:40 AM · Jan 25, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...44516684132353
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 7:04 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Lots of debate over allowing the land within the urban boundary. Tierney puts up a motion to make up the urban expansion deficit with the Tewin land. El-Chantiry's motion asks to NOT add South March lands so that the hectares can be transferred to the Algonquins f Ontario land.

With the motions on the table, Tewin would get 445 hectares to develop, which would come close to the 500 hectares they have for the built up area of the proposed community.

Gower brings everyone back to earth by pointing out that the area would be costly for the city to service and sits on poor soil conditions.

McKenney asks what scoring the land would get, and City staff says very low due to lack of City services and poor soil conditions.

More on the meeting on Kate Porter's Twitter.

https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...39993619496965
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 7:06 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Quote:
Kate Porter
@KatePorterCBC


McKenney also sought more info about who owns the lands that have been called Tewin. The pink is owned by Algonquins of Ontario, say staff. That lined area are natural features where development would be difficult. #ottcity



1:51 PM · Jan 26, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...39993619496965
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 8:43 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Quote:
Kate Porter
@KatePorterCBC


Councillors vote 8 to 3 to NOT add 175 hectares in South March inside the urban boundary, which #ottcity staff scored high for development.

They instead redirect them to a future community by the Algonquins of Ontario in the south-east. #ottnews


3:32 PM · Jan 26, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...65440226979840
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 8:46 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,739
Quote:
Jon Willing
@JonathanWilling


With a 9-3 vote, councillors recommend including 445 ha of Algonquins of Ontario land in the rural east inside the urban boundary. Council to ratify in a couple of weeks.
https://twitter.com/JonathanWilling/...796404225?s=20
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 8:53 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
This is a bit concerning. Despite staff recommendations not to include the land due to a lack of services and poor soil conditions, Councillors are pushing through with it.

Avalon is a prime example of why we shouldn't approve lands that are unsuitable for development.

At the very least, the approval of their land should come with conditions, requesting a plan to deal with outstanding issues.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:00 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
A perspective of the true size of the approved land.

Quote:
Kate Porter
@KatePorterCBC


445 hectares for Algonquins of Ontario's Tewin is a third of the boundary expansion, about double the size of Blackburn Hamlet, Glen Gower notes.

In this case to have more hectares to "seed it with" gives Tewin a better chance of succeeding, Gower says. #ottcity
3:56 PM · Jan 26, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...71386969911306
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:05 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Despite my concerns, I'm very interested to see how the Algonquins will approach suburb development. I expect something quite different from what we traditionally see. Furthermore, this will be the first new large scale suburb in over 50 years. When we tack on to existing suburb, it's hard, nearly impossible, to break the mold. With a new community built from scratch, there are more opportunities to innovate.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:11 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Quote:
Kate Porter
@KatePorterCBC


"Imagine creating a sustainable community from scratch," says Tim Tierney.

Committees approve his motion 9 - 3 to allow 445 hectares total to Algonquins of Ontario (working with Taggart) inside urban boundary.

(Yellow on map shows more than 445 hectares)



4:01 PM · Jan 26, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...72713884119042
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:13 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Serious discussion needed on commuter rail to serve this future community.

EDIT: On that, quick quote from the original article posted on this thread:

Quote:
“We will bring rapid transit to this site at no cost to the taxpayer,” Taggart said, pointing to one option of creating an area-specific development charge to fund transit infrastructure, much like what was done to extend the Trillium Line deeper into Riverside South.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:26 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
T.E.W.I.N website:

https://www.tewin.ca/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:40 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is offline
ハルウララ
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,853
Does....does Ottawa need more further-aflung suburbs?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:48 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 68,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Does....does Ottawa need more further-aflung suburbs?
Does "need" really enter into this?
__________________
The Last Word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:46 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Does....does Ottawa need more further-aflung suburbs?
In terms of location, this is closer than Kanata or Barrhaven. It would be relatively easy to build a simple commuter rail line from the VIA station to the site. It also has more potential of becoming a true self sustaining community than Orleans or Barrhaven (with Kanata being a fairly independent suburb).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:48 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is online now
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 12,335
Developers stunned by recommendation to remove lands from boundary expansion to help Algonquins project
Several developers who own land in the South March area were set to have their high-scoring properties brought into the new urban boundary, only to be rejected by councillors.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jan 26, 2021 • 8 minutes ago • 3 minute read




Councillors blindsided four development companies on Tuesday by recommending the removal of high-scoring development land from inside a proposed urban boundary in the Kanata area so the Algonquins of Ontario can build a major residential community on low-scoring development land in the rural east.

A joint meeting of the planning and agriculture and rural affairs committee established which additional lands should be included in a shifted urban boundary to satisfy growth projections in a new official plan.

The city’s planning department used a scoring system to decide which lands should be included inside a new urban boundary.

Several developers who own land in the South March area were set to have their high-scoring properties brought into the new urban boundary, only to be rejected by councillors.

“It is incredibly surprising that in an unprecedented move that politics has taken over a prescribed scoring process and months of work by city staff and included a parcel of land with a zero score on servicing over lands which have some of highest scores and support the growth and maturation of an existing complete community where jobs, services and houses co-exist,” Claridge, Multivesco, Uniform and EQ Homes said in a statement.

“The joint committee has taken a step backwards in their supposed step into the future with a new official plan. It has taken one of the biggest employment nodes and one of the only true 15-minute communities out of the equation that these same politicians drew up to start the process.”

Instead, councillors took the roughly 175 hectares of land and packaged it with 270 hectares that still needed to be slotted into the urban boundary, ultimately assigning the 445 hectares of land to the “Tewin” project pursued by the Algonquins of Ontario and Taggart Investments west of Carlsbad Springs.

Councillors heard that the land owned by the Algonquins of Ontario scored at the lowest end of the scale because of its far-flung location not near public transit and other municipal infrastructure.

But an important variable emerged.

The Algonquins of Ontario told the joint committee this week that the city should bring its lands inside the urban boundary, in part, in the name of Indigenous reconciliation. The group said it needed 500 hectares brought into the urban boundary.

Janet Stavinga, executive director of the Algonquins of Ontario, said the organization should still be able to proceed with its project with the 445 hectares.

There was a pronged approach to get the Algonquin lands into the urban boundary on Tuesday.

Coun. Eli El-Chantiry convinced the majority of the joint committee to remove the South March lands, which he argued are unsuitable for development, even though the lands received acceptable scores from city staff.

Then Coun. Tim Tierney shifted his colleagues’ attention with a motion to include the Algonquin lands inside the urban boundary. He said the city should seize the chance to acknowledge reconciliation.

“This is a real opportunity where we can put ourselves on the map,” Tierney said.

Other councillors grappled with weighing a critical municipal planning decision with Indigenous reconciliation.

“It’s well worth considering very, very carefully,” Coun. Jeff Leiper said.

Leiper, along with Coun. Riley Brockington, was on the losing end of the vote to establish a new community with the Algonquin lands.

Even Stephen Willis, the city’s general manager of planning, wasn’t sure how to balance the priorities.

“We’re in new territory right now on this issue,” Willis said.

City planners came to the joint committee meeting this week asking for approval on a plan identifying their recommended new development lands.

There were 1,101 hectares of land that received top grades for getting into the urban boundary, but the city still needed to find 270 hectares of lower-graded lands to add. That’s where the Algonquin land came in.

In expanding the urban boundary, the city has to consider how much more money its would cost to provide municipal services in those outer communities. The cost for including the Algonquin lands wasn’t made clear during the meeting.

It wasn’t the only controversy.

Coun. Carol Anne Meehan won support to swap out staff-recommended land in Riverside South with nearby agricultural land to allow residential development closer to the new Trillium Line extension.

Meehan struggled with her own proposal, since she previously supported protecting agricultural land during the urban boundary expansion.

Coun. Scott Moffatt said Meehan’s motion worryingly sends a message that “transit trumps agriculture, but El-Chatiry, the chair of the agriculture committee who originally won council’s support to protect agriculture land, said the land swap provides a “one-time opportunity we shouldn’t miss” for public transit.

Council will vote on the recommended new lands inside the urban boundary on Feb. 10.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ntario-project
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 11:11 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is offline
ハルウララ
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
In terms of location, this is closer than Kanata or Barrhaven. It would be relatively easy to build a simple commuter rail line from the VIA station to the site. It also has more potential of becoming a true self sustaining community than Orleans or Barrhaven (with Kanata being a fairly independent suburb).
Just because it's closer than Kanata or Barrhaven doesn't necessarily make it feasible, especially considering how much flak those two suburban communities already take from here and elsewhere.

My main concern is the point raised from rocketphish's link:

Quote:
In expanding the urban boundary, the city has to consider how much more money its would cost to provide municipal services in those outer communities. The cost for including the Algonquin lands wasn’t made clear during the meeting.
So not only was it not costed and voted on but it also had low developmental scoring from city staff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 11:18 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Just because it's closer than Kanata or Barrhaven doesn't necessarily make it feasible, especially considering how much flak those two suburban communities already take from here and elsewhere.

My main concern is the point raised from rocketphish's link:



So not only was it not costed and voted on but it also had low developmental scoring from city staff.
I was speaking purely in terms of location.There are plenty of other glaring issues with the land in question.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Suburbs
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:51 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.