The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread

[Acajack]

I am pretty sure it was raining at kickoff time already and the forecast was nasty too.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by elly63

Do I think those were tickets sold and not scanned attendance, of course. People didn't want to get rained on and stayed away but are you really trying to make us believe they've had attendance problems the last few seasons instead of a few blips on the radar the last few games of a winless season, c'mon Berkie you can troll better than that.

Where did I say "attendance problems"? I said "lower-than-advertised attendance"... as in often they're hovering at around 20k.... last night was certainly less than that... but still much better than the Argos.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am pretty sure it was raining at kickoff time already and the forecast was nasty too.

It wasn't.

My point is that we can now say with absolute certainty that the Ti-Cats aren't using tickets scanned to report attendance because the numbers barely differ game to game even though it's painfully obvious there are big chunks of empty seats from game to game. I saw the same thing last year as well.

The novelty of the new stadium has definitely started to wear off.

[elly63]

Just awaiting confirmation of LDC TV ratings. Apparently SSK/WPG were great, TOR/HAM were surprisingly good despite the delay and again surprisingly EDM/CAL ok but not great.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

My point is that we can now say with absolute certainty that the Ti-Cats aren't using tickets scanned to report attendance because the numbers barely differ game to game even though it's painfully obvious there are big chunks of empty seats from game to game.

So what, you used to get the same with TFC. If they were tickets sold who cares, they got the revenue.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

The novelty of the new stadium has definitely started to wear off.

It's not the novelty of the new stadium it's the novelty of an 0 and 7 team who tried a few seemingly desperate measures to break out of that slump that failed.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Where did I say "attendance problems"? I said "lower-than-advertised attendance"... as in often they're hovering at around 20k....

Proof?

[elly63]

As per "empty seats" and I am certainly not claiming this about last night in Hamilton we now have the phenomena of the party plaza where people will leave their seats and congregate in open areas. So a snapshot at any particular time may not be an accurate depiction.

Other strange seating phenomena. The Argos sell fairly well on the side behind the camera and some sections of the upper deck, the side opposite the camera that everybody sees is relatively empty. Strangely Argos games I've watched have had a fair amount of people in the end zones.

The upper deck of the CMNT game was empty but the soccer crowd loves to congregate behind the net.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

So what, you used to get the same with TFC. If they were tickets sold who cares, they got the revenue.

Nobody is saying other teams in other sports don't do the same, but it's fairly obvious that Hamilton is doing it based on physical bodies in the stadium.

I'm guessing the Ti-Cats and THField as they lose potential revenue from concessions/mechandising from people not showing up.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Aug 28-Sept 4, 2017
TORONTO/BOSTON..........AUG 28-AUG 30...MLB.......ROGERS...........TORONTO.......35,999 (107,997 Total)
CALGARY/EDMONTON.........SEPT 4.............CFL........MCMAHON........CALGARY........33,731
SASKATCHEWAN/WINNIPEG...SEPT 3..........CFL........MOSAIC............REGINA..........33,350
HAMILTON/TORONTO.......SEPT 4...............CFL........TIM HORTONS...HAMILTON.......23,926
CANADA/JAMAICA...........SEPT 2................FRND......BMO................TORONTO........21,724

MONTREAL/CHICAGO......SEPT 2................MLS........SAPUTO...........MONTREAL.......19,619
MONTREAL/OTTAWA.......AUG 31................CFL........MOLSON..........MONTREAL.......18,325
TORONTO/WHITEHAVEN..SEPT 2................RFL........LAMPORT..........TORONTO.........6,134
OTTAWA/SAINT LOUIS....SEPT 3................USL........TD PLACE...........OTTAWA..........4,059

Notes:

• Jays continue steady attendance bleed
• CFL sellout in Regina with near sellouts in Hamilton & Calgary; Montreal sets season-low on consecutive weeks
• Second-highest attendance for a CMNT match in Toronto and second-highest for an international friendly in Canada since a 1994 pre-FIFA World Cup friendly with Brazil
• Ottawa Fury continue Fall decline tradition

Hey Jhikka. Not to give you more work to do but the Vancouver Canadians baseball team have averaged a 98% attendance record of over 6000 people this year. Something like 240000 in 38 games? And their home Nat Bailey stadium was voted best baseball park in North America. There must be thousands of ballparks in NA.
Cheers!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm guessing the Ti-Cats and THField as they lose potential revenue from concessions/mechandising from people not showing up.

Very true, I sit corrected.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Hey Jhikka. Not to give you more work to do but the Vancouver Canadians baseball team have averaged a 98% attendance record of over 6000 people this year. Something like 240000 in 38 games? And their home Nat Bailey stadium was voted best baseball park in North America. There must be thousands of ballparks in NA.
Cheers!

I'll look into it. I was tracking the Can-Am league earlier this season but I found the attendance numbers were either rounded (a bad sign) or missing altogether. I'll look into Vancouver's numbers to see if they're reliable.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Nobody is saying other teams in other sports don't do the same, but it's fairly obvious that Hamilton is doing it based on physical bodies in the stadium.

Berklon has made it sound as if this is an ongoing problem over the years rather than a recent issue more to do with an 0 and 7 team. Highly suspect that they've been fiddling attendance the last few seasons, let's get real.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

Berklon has made it sound as if this is an ongoing problem over the years rather than a recent issue more to do with an 0 and 7 team.

This is the first season that it's obvious they're counting tickets despite not scanning them at the gate. Again, this isn't really an issue as a lot of sports teams do this.

Originally Posted by elly63

Highly suspect that they've been fiddling attendance the last few seasons, let's get real.

Probably not but there's really no way to know for sure, and for most sports teams we'll never know true numbers. Hamilton has had 23 straight games of attendance floating between 23,500 and 24,300 - that's a 3% deviation in all gate figures over two and a half years. I find it unlikely that they've phyically had 23k+ at 23 straight games but I don't doubt the tickets were sold. This season has seen a slight decrease in reported attendance:

Hamilton average attendance, regular season:
2015: 24,231
2016: 24,001
2017: 23,727

There's a combination of things going on here:

• Obviously, the team was 0-7. That's going to make things difficult to get fans out.
• Recent moves by the team, including a prospective coach and quarterback, which may have not sat well with a few.
• Stadiums do have a great new car smell when they first open. It's been three years since THF opened and that's usually when new stadiums start settling in to the norm. Whether or not this is actually having an affect is, again, difficult to tell. I don't really buy into it but I can see how some would.

We can discuss this forever and ever but at the end of the day Hamilton isn't one of the markets the CFL should be losing sleep over right now. Quite the opposite.

[elly63]

I must preface this post. This is from cfl.ca and the person who made the post is a controversial character. This could be a pile of bull but if certain people rumoured to buy the BC Lions are the Aquilinis (Canucks) or the community business leaders The Waterboys this might be the kind of thing they would do to emulate the success of the REDBLACKS.

Good News - Great News

According to a report from a Vancouver agency they have leaked information regarding a possible sale of the BC Lions and the deal likely will be done prior to Grey Cup. But if not then, definitely during the off-season.

Part of the leaked information, the BC Lions new owners would develop a new athletic park which would be the new home of the BC Lions that would also house other sport facilities, retail/shops, with possible future housing complex. The new owners have gathered possible advertising partners to pay part of the project. Though this is very exciting news, I was told the BC Lions new owners would also be seeking public funding which likely means if the project goes forward, it wouldn't be until 2018-19.

To whom the new owner is. I do know, but for privacy reasons, I will keep it private.

[elly63]

^Seems to have disappeared, the plot thickens...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

It wasn't.

.

Well I started watching fairly early in the first quarter, and it was definitely raining then. Though the thunderstorm had not started.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Along with fan support, Edmonton traditionally has been much more equipped to hold the big soccer games as compared to Toronto it seems. Keep it up Edmonton!

So typical of you to cherry pick things. It's one game from 23 years ago against the number one Team.

May 18, 2013..Commonwealth...v. Costa Rica.....8,102

[TorontoDrew]

Even with our last place team the Jays have held onto a top spot for attendance in a 30 team league. Well done!

Through the gates so far this season.

1 LA Dodgers 3,215,925 45,941
2 St. Louis 2,896,054 42,589
3 San Francisco 2,869,953 40,999
4 NY Yankees 2,653,774 40,827
5 Toronto 2,759,779 39,996

[WhipperSnapper]

I'll be a lot more impressed if they maintain their top 5 position this next season. They made it to the ALCS two years in row and they were always a ten game winning streak from being in playoff position once again.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I'll be a lot more impressed if they maintain their top 5 position this next season.

I'll be impressed if they're top 10 next season. Their monthly average has been dropping by the month this season. Middle of summer was roughly high 40Ks with August being high 30Ks. I can't imagine September looks much better. A slow start to next season's numbers would almost certainly rule out top 5 from the get-go.