Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

An interesting English-Cree word used in Northern Ontario: mayochup (shit-face)

https://globalnews.ca/news/5294292/m..._campaign=2014

I overheard a co-worker of mine today who is half Cree talk about how his Mother told him about what mayochup sounded like in Mushkegowuk Cree. He said it wasn't exact but very close to sounding like shit-faced and is used to described people who are really drunk. I'm sure that the product will be a hit up North and with some people around here.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

Today, poor grammer often passes as a Newfie culture thing, I see it all the time, even in print

I see a lot of negative stereotypes too. They are often more about feeling good by putting down others than appreciation of other cultures. A lot of Western Canadians think that Newfoundlanders are all poor and stupid. I've seen this a lot in Alberta in particular, with Newfoundlanders indulging the stereotypes with tall tales of what life is like on the island (maybe these people all really are from some tiny remote fishing village but I am skeptical).

(There isn't much difference in perception of NL vs NS, NB, or PEI from a national perspective.)

There is nothing wrong with celebrating working class culture but it can easily become a minstrel show and reinforce negative stereotypes. Atlantic Canada unfortunately doesn't get a lot of neutral or positive coverage to balance that out.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm not sure why you seem to get some sort of satisfaction from posts like that? I don't understand the impulse to imagine today's youth are faking their accents, and that they're choosing uneducated fishermen as their inspiration? ....

I sometimes use a bit of satire and sarcasm, etc.

Originally Posted by someone123

I see a lot of negative stereotypes too. They are often more about feeling good by putting down others than appreciation of other cultures. A lot of Western Canadians think that Newfoundlanders are all poor and stupid. I've seen this a lot in Alberta in particular, with Newfoundlanders indulging the stereotypes with tall tales of what life is like on the island (maybe these people all really are from some tiny remote fishing village but I am skeptical).

(There isn't much difference in perception of NL vs NS, NB, or PEI from a national perspective.)

There is nothing wrong with celebrating working class culture but it can easily become a minstrel show and reinforce negative stereotypes. Atlantic Canada unfortunately doesn't get a lot of neutral or positive coverage to balance that out.

Yes, it's partly the stereotypes, it's a little like showing drag queen videos to a gay person, and saying "that's what gay people are like, perhaps that's how you should be". As an extension of that, I think negative stereotypes are being encouraged and reinforced in the mix.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Architype

Some of the accents heard in the media (i.e. 22 minutes) are "put on", and some people are capable of both. I'm not saying it's all a put on, but some if it is. Today, poor grammer often passes as a Newfie culture thing, I see it all the time, even in print; that attitude wasn't as present years ago. Good grammer was encouraged long before confederation (i.e. the queen's english). Just like in the UK, there are accents that sound better, others worse; in many cases, just like in the rest of Canada, it's often a reflection of education level and economic class.

You mean like the entirety of that god awful show "Republic of Doyle"? It was like nails on a chalk board.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I overheard a co-worker of mine today who is half Cree talk about how his Mother told him about what mayochup sounded like in Mushkegowuk Cree. He said it wasn't exact but very close to sounding like shit-faced and is used to described people who are really drunk. I'm sure that the product will be a hit up North and with some people around here.

That was what I was implying. We don't really use "shit-face" as a direct insult but as a comment that someone is intoxicated. It is perhaps this English usage that is the basis of the Cree word.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

You mean like the entirety of that god awful show "Republic of Doyle"? It was like nails on a chalk board.

It was really bad. The actual pronunciation of words was usually fine, obviously... but they used some archaic words and removed all vulgarity. It'd be like a show set in Toronto where the street kid says "Gee willikers! That lad five-finger-discounted my Nokia!"

It was like...

Canadian: His phone was stolen!
Newfoundland: Sure someone's after stealing he's phone!
Republic of Doyle: Sure e's mobile's h'after being teefed!

[SignalHillHiker]

This is one of my favourites because it's just so fucking weird. I've explained it here before... but:

In France, some regions add "la" to the end of their sentences. It means "there" and it's an emphasis word, like Canadian "eh". In Newfoundland, we use the French version. But we say it "luh...". And it's just like Canadian "eh" in that it becomes more common the more rural, and more poor, you go.

So these guys are watching an Irish tourist swim out to an iceberg at Middle Cove Beach, which is the nearest bonfire beach to St. John's, about 10 minutes away.

https://www.facebook.com/kenny.nosew...40/?permPage=1

And there is a natural "luh" in this.

"That berg's still movin' around, luh, i's not fully a'ground yet!"

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

This is one of my favourites because it's just so fucking weird. I've explained it here before... but:

In France, some regions add "la" to the end of their sentences. It means "there" and it's an emphasis word, like Canadian "eh". In Newfoundland, we use the French version. But we say it "luh...". And it's just like Canadian "eh" in that it becomes more common the more rural, and more poor, you go.

So these guys are watching an Irish tourist swim out to an iceberg at Middle Cove Beach, which is the nearest bonfire beach to St. John's, about 10 minutes away.

https://www.facebook.com/kenny.nosew...40/?permPage=1

And there is a natural "luh" in this.

"That berg's still movin' around, luh, i's not fully a'ground yet!"

It means "look", or "look at that", but also is used similarly to "eh" or "see?".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

It means "look", or "look at that", but also is used similarly to "eh" or "see?".

In French at least, "là" (if indeed it's the source of the NL "luh"), means "there" or "that".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

This is one of my favourites because it's just so fucking weird. I've explained it here before... but:

In France, some regions add "la" to the end of their sentences. It means "there" and it's an emphasis word, like Canadian "eh". In Newfoundland, we use the French version. But we say it "luh...". And it's just like Canadian "eh" in that it becomes more common the more rural, and more poor, you go.

In actual fact, I am pretty sure that the "là" at the end of sentences is more common in French-speaking Canada than in France. Thouigh everyone does it to some degree.

People from the Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean region are stereotyped for this, and the colourful former mayor of Saguenay (Chicoutimi) was nicknamed Jean Là Là Tremblay.

But as I said - everyone does it sometimes.

[harls]

I love "LÀ-là". I used to have a boss from France who would say this all the time. She would use it to start her sentences when she was explaining something. It roughly translates into "So now" or "Now then".

It can also be a form of exasperation with someone, like a kid who won't eat.

"LA la... tu m'énerves.. Mange ton répas"

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I see a lot of negative stereotypes too. They are often more about feeling good by putting down others than appreciation of other cultures. A lot of Western Canadians think that Newfoundlanders are all poor and stupid. I've seen this a lot in Alberta in particular, with Newfoundlanders indulging the stereotypes with tall tales of what life is like on the island (maybe these people all really are from some tiny remote fishing village but I am skeptical).

(There isn't much difference in perception of NL vs NS, NB, or PEI from a national perspective.)

There is nothing wrong with celebrating working class culture but it can easily become a minstrel show and reinforce negative stereotypes. Atlantic Canada unfortunately doesn't get a lot of neutral or positive coverage to balance that out.

Thanks. Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I love "LÀ-là". I used to have a boss from France who would say this all the time. She would use it to start her sentences when she was explaining something. It roughly translates into "So now" or "Now then".

It can also be a form of exasperation with someone, like a kid who won't eat.

"LA la... tu m'énerves.. Mange ton répas"

Good examples!

In the latter case it's almost a similar meaning to "NOW..."

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm not sure why you seem to get some sort of satisfaction from posts like that? I don't understand the impulse to imagine today's youth are faking their accents, and that they're choosing uneducated fishermen as their inspiration?

In my experience, it's a roll of the dice. We're all taught to talk like Canadians in school. Some of us can, some of us can't. Jeddy1989's friend Beth could not fake her accent with a gun to her head. It's the thickest I have ever heard, and she's from Paradise. My parents sound exactly the same to me, but when they visited me on the mainland everyone said my mother had no accent and they couldn't understand my father. None of it is "fake", or put on for show.

You can tell when people dive into the accent for emphasis. It's just as obvious as Oprah speaking ebonics. Most people don't.

You really think, for example, that these families in the little town of Branch are researching English from the 1700s and purposefully choosing which accent they'd like to speak? And then deciding amongst themselves who should use the Wexford expressions and who should use the Waterford ones? That's just... ridiculous. And I don't understand the motivation for implying it.

There are lots of individuals, and even whole areas, of Newfoundland without a strong accent. Marty_McFly sounds like he's from Ontario to me. Doesn't change the fact that people like Beth are real, and not faking it.

As for accents being comparable in Nova Scotia, absolutely. Generally it's a little more Valley Girl than here, but there are pockets of Nova Scotia, especially on Cape Breton, that sound like the weakest Newfoundland accents to me.

Like if you labelled this video and told me it was Newfoundlanders, I'd believe it. Accents might be light, but they're the same as ours. The style of comedy is the same. They even look like us.

"They sees us up here freezin', now freezin's lookin' good!" Love that.

Well said. Being a native Nova Scotian, I think I have a pretty good handle on which part of my province a particular dialect is from. However, there can be extreme variances, and you can't judge any particular person by their accent or dialect (i.e. educated, etc.).

People typically speak how they learned to speak as kids, typically from their friends family and neighbors, but also may have been influenced by their teachers, television, etc. For example, I've been told by some of my colleagues in Toronto that I don't have a NS accent, whereas my brother, who has lived in Alberta since the 1980s definitely continues to carry his NS accent (I've noticed). We both grew up in the same household, but I had always taken a greater interest in language than he did and thus I always tried to speak English as I had been taught by my English teachers (can't say I've been entirely successful in speaking 'proper' English, but that's another story entirely).

The stereotypes that the rest of the country appears to carry about those from the Atlantic Provinces are about as accurate as 'the Americans' thinking that all Canadians pronounce 'about' as "aboot", or every Canadian saying "eh" after everything (though I am often guilty of he second affliction... ).

You can't ever paint everybody with the same brush...

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

This is one of my favourites because it's just so fucking weird. I've explained it here before... but:

In France, some regions add "la" to the end of their sentences. It means "there" and it's an emphasis word, like Canadian "eh". In Newfoundland, we use the French version. But we say it "luh...". And it's just like Canadian "eh" in that it becomes more common the more rural, and more poor, you go.

So these guys are watching an Irish tourist swim out to an iceberg at Middle Cove Beach, which is the nearest bonfire beach to St. John's, about 10 minutes away.

https://www.facebook.com/kenny.nosew...40/?permPage=1

And there is a natural "luh" in this.

"That berg's still movin' around, luh, i's not fully a'ground yet!"

I wonder what the origin of "luh" is. I doubt it is French as I don't see how tiny St-Pierre et Miquelon could have such an influence on the language used by Newfoulanders. And as Acajack mentionned, "là" is more commonly used in French Canada than in France. The French sometimes use it but generally in a different manner and very rarely at the end of a sentence. I would go with the other theory that it derivates from "look" but what do I know.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I wonder what the origin of "luh" is. I doubt it is French as I don't see how tiny St-Pierre et Miquelon could have such an influence over the language used by Newfoulanders. And as Acajack mentionned, "là" is more commonly used in French Canada than in France. The French sometimes use it but generally in a different manner and very rarely at the end of a sentence. I would go with the other theory that it derivates from "look" but what do I know.

The French did settle in Newfoundland and controlled some portions before it was retaken by the English.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Well said. Being a native Nova Scotian, I think I have a pretty good handle on which part of my province a particular dialect is from. However, there can be extreme variances, and you can't judge any particular person by their accent or dialect (i.e. educated, etc.).

People typically speak how they learned to speak as kids, typically from their friends family and neighbors, but also may have been influenced by their teachers, television, etc. For example, I've been told by some of my colleagues in Toronto that I don't have a NS accent, whereas my brother, who has lived in Alberta since the 1980s definitely continues to carry his NS accent (I've noticed). We both grew up in the same household, but I had always taken a greater interest in language than he did and thus I always tried to speak English as I had been taught by my English teachers (can't say I've been entirely successful in speaking 'proper' English, but that's another story entirely).

The stereotypes that the rest of the country appears to carry about those from the Atlantic Provinces are about as accurate as 'the Americans' thinking that all Canadians pronounce 'about' as "aboot", or every Canadian saying "eh" after everything (though I am often guilty of he second affliction... ).

You can't ever paint everybody with the same brush...

We do, from an American perspective, pronounce “about” as “aboot” ... it’s just that our brains are set up to interpret the difference between the two sounds as linguistically significant while Americans’ brains are not. There are theoretically infinite numbers of vowel sounds - everyone clumps vast numbers of them together as “the same” for linguistic purposes, but the boundaries of the various clumps differ as between different linguistic groups. In our case, “about” and “aboot” have a clump boundary between them, while in Americans’ case they don’t.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

We do, from an American perspective, pronounce “about” as “aboot” ... it’s just that our brains are set up to interpret the difference between the two sounds as linguistically significant while Americans’ brains are not. There are theoretically infinite numbers of vowel sounds - everyone clumps vast numbers of them together as “the same” for linguistic purposes, but the boundaries of the various clumps differ as between different linguistic groups. In our case, “about” and “aboot” have a clump boundary between them, while in Americans’ case they don’t.

To me the Canadian "about" sounds more like "aboat" that "aboot". The American "about" is a bit lazy sounding, like "abaaht".

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

To me the Canadian "about" sounds more like "aboat" that "aboot". The American "about" is a bit lazy sounding, like "abaaht".

To my francophone ears, "about" is pronounced "abawt".

(And by Anglo-Canadians, "abowt".)

This general sound shift ('a' vs 'o') I've observed is very common in nearly all words that have that sound. (i.e. AFAIK, to Anglo-Canadian ears: "I'm calling you abaaht the caahpy of that daahcument", from an American.)

[Architype]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I wonder what the origin of "luh" is. I doubt it is French as I don't see how tiny St-Pierre et Miquelon could have such an influence on the language used by Newfoulanders. And as Acajack mentionned, "là" is more commonly used in French Canada than in France. The French sometimes use it but generally in a different manner and very rarely at the end of a sentence. I would go with the other theory that it derivates from "look" but what do I know.

Wikipedia seems to agree that it's just an abbreviated word expression:

Wah?: what?
Luh!: Look!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_English