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  #10221  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kph06 View Post
That’s positive to see. Dexel bought the building a few years ago and recently got Maxwell’s. I had heard it will likely be parking in the interim, maybe a beer garden for some of the space. They have a few projects in the queue at the moment.
I wonder what this means for the Maxwell's building or Pizza Corner. Maxwell's Plum is one of those "character" buildings that is not really a heritage landmark with some famous past or cultural significance (to my knowledge) but nevertheless helps to make this area interesting. Hopefully some concessions can be made around here.

Consider a lowrise streetscape concept that added more buildings that fit in with the wood and brick theme along Grafton, with residential above and a modern side on Market. It could really improve that block.

I am also curious how long it will be before we see a redo of Cambridge Suites.
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  #10222  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 1:15 AM
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I wonder what this means for the Maxwell's building or Pizza Corner. Maxwell's Plum is one of those "character" buildings that is not really a heritage landmark with some famous past or cultural significance (to my knowledge) but nevertheless helps to make this area interesting. Hopefully some concessions can be made around here.

Consider a lowrise streetscape concept that added more buildings that fit in with the wood and brick theme along Grafton, with residential above and a modern side on Market. It could really improve that block.

I am also curious how long it will be before we see a redo of Cambridge Suites.
I wonder what incentive there is to subdivide lots?
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  #10223  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 4:09 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Just saying, I will be upset if the Maxwell's building comes down. I have filtered many a brew in that establishment over the decades - as have many many others. IMHO it should be preserved as some sort of mainstay pub location...
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  #10224  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 1:19 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Just saying, I will be upset if the Maxwell's building comes down. I have filtered many a brew in that establishment over the decades - as have many many others. IMHO it should be preserved as some sort of mainstay pub location...
If the Maxwell's building is demolished, it'll be very unfortunate, but completely unsurprising. The building itself predates 1850 and is one of the very few old-Halifax character buildings around here. It was also one of the buildings that was listed for heritage registration last year in that big mass-heritage designation, that was gutted by council after property owners lost it over the supposed unfairness of having their buildings designated.

But, of course, the height limit here is 28 metres, so around 10 storeys, and if Dexel owns it, I can easily see it getting knocked down without a second thought. Dexel is one of the better developers in terms of quality of new builds, but is basically clueless about how to utilize historic resources to improve developments. Though that isn't unique--most of our major developers are horrendous at this. I don't have much faith that anything not nailed down with a heritage designation won't be ripped down, no matter its architectural quality, size, historic relevance, etc. (And sometimes even designated buildings are at risk. Recall Dexel's application to destroy registered heritage properties on Barrington, which fortunately seems to have passed.)

Of course, whatever happens here will almost by default have to be an improvement, since the block is so dire. But since the Maxwell's building only occupies like 5 percent of the developable area, it would be ideal if it were left alone, or more imaginatively used as a character-defining lynchpin for a new streetscape, rather than just getting casually knocked down so a handful more apartments can be built above it.
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  #10225  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 2:03 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
If the Maxwell's building is demolished, it'll be very unfortunate, but completely unsurprising. The building itself predates 1850 and is one of the very few old-Halifax character buildings around here. It was also one of the buildings that was listed for heritage registration last year in that big mass-heritage designation, that was gutted by council after property owners lost it over the supposed unfairness of having their buildings designated.

But, of course, the height limit here is 28 metres, so around 10 storeys, and if Dexel owns it, I can easily see it getting knocked down without a second thought. Dexel is one of the better developers in terms of quality of new builds, but is basically clueless about how to utilize historic resources to improve developments. Though that isn't unique--most of our major developers are horrendous at this. I don't have much faith that anything not nailed down with a heritage designation won't be ripped down, no matter its architectural quality, size, historic relevance, etc. (And sometimes even designated buildings are at risk. Recall Dexel's application to destroy registered heritage properties on Barrington, which fortunately seems to have passed.)

Of course, whatever happens here will almost by default have to be an improvement, since the block is so dire. But since the Maxwell's building only occupies like 5 percent of the developable area, it would be ideal if it were left alone, or more imaginatively used as a character-defining lynchpin for a new streetscape, rather than just getting casually knocked down so a handful more apartments can be built above it.
Well said, and I completely agree with every one of your points.

Sadly enough, it's true, and I've actually become quite despondent about heritage/landmark preservation in Halifax overall. On this board I used to be quite whenever another heritage building was leveled or gutted, but now that's pretty much been snuffed out to a reaction.

In this city, it's pretty much up to luck as to whether any aspect of any historical building will be saved, despite the historical nature of Halifax, and it seems that council is totally immersed in making us appear progressive (i.e. massive focus on bike lanes, zero focus on heritage preservation), while at the same time cavalierly holding up large developments on empty lots (see Richmond Yards thread) due to some inane personal preference or whatever - meanwhile people looking for places to live, or looking to change their living situation are still having a hard time finding anything while prices continue to rise. Don't get me wrong, I still think bike lanes/transit, etc., are very important, but it would be nice to see some balance here.

A person might say, well, perhaps you should form an advocacy group for heritage properties - but it has already been done (including one involving some members of the forum here) without success. In fact the Heritage Trust has become a target of mockery here, where nobody takes it seriously, and all the "friends of" groups have made anybody trying to preserve anything look like a bunch of dicks in the public's eyes, due to their apparent goal of preserving their own interests with often questionable logic.

Sigh...
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  #10226  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
A person might say, well, perhaps you should form an advocacy group for heritage properties - but it has already been done (including one involving some members of the forum here) without success. In fact the Heritage Trust has become a target of mockery here, where nobody takes it seriously, and all the "friends of" groups have made anybody trying to preserve anything look like a bunch of dicks in the public's eyes, due to their apparent goal of preserving their own interests with often questionable logic.

Sigh...
The fact that the Heritage Trust have spent two years on this ridiculous crusade to marginally shrink down this project on Brunswick Street, even as historic buildings succumb left and right with barely a word from them, is very telling of the group's complete irrelevance.
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  #10227  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 3:05 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
The fact that the Heritage Trust have spent two years on this ridiculous crusade to marginally shrink down this project on Brunswick Street, even as historic buildings succumb left and right with barely a word from them, is very telling of the group's complete irrelevance.
Not sure which project you're talking about...
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...but I agree with your assessment, sadly enough. I didn't mean to turn this into a debate as to the effectiveness of the HT.

But what about AGBANS (The Action Group for Better Architecture in Nova Scotia), which was formed by members of this forum to advocate for preservation of historic and significant architecture in NS. It involved very knowledgeable and well-meaning members (I don't recall who), and they seemed to have important and reasonable goals, but I noticed that their website does not exist any longer and there have been no new entries on their twitter account since 2018. There is some activity on their facebook account, but alas, no improvement to the situation (as you mentioned).

This isn't a criticism of AGBANS either, just a note about the futility of trying to change things in Halifax.
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  #10228  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 5:45 PM
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Maxwell’s Plum is a gem, I would be sad to see it go.

Developers are usually willing to keep heritage buildings so long as they are conducive to profit. Beyond the reluctance to get a heritage designation there are dissuading factors relating to taxes and insurance.
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  #10229  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Good Baklava View Post
Maxwell’s Plum is a gem, I would be sad to see it go.

Developers are usually willing to keep heritage buildings so long as they are conducive to profit. Beyond the reluctance to get a heritage designation there are dissuading factors relating to taxes and insurance.
I can't imagine that owning a popular bar in the middle of downtown Halifax is a bad business to be in, either. It would seem to make lot of business sense to be the developer who saves one of the city's landmark pubs, and uses it as the cornerstone (almost literally) of a new development.

Think of it now: "Live at The Plum on Grafton. One-bedrooms starting at $599,000; biggest beer selection in the city literally at your doorstep."
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  #10230  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
I can't imagine that owning a popular bar in the middle of downtown Halifax is a bad business to be in, either. It would seem to make lot of business sense to be the developer who saves one of the city's landmark pubs, and uses it as the cornerstone (almost literally) of a new development.

Think of it now: "Live at The Plum on Grafton. One-bedrooms starting at $599,000; biggest beer selection in the city literally at your doorstep."
The development could be an opportunity to improve the bar space and enhance the building or facade.

I guess we don't know that there's won't be a good outcome. The failure is that poor municipal governance leaves too much up to chance when they could prevent some of the really bad outcomes on what amounts to perhaps the most sensitive 0.1% of potential development land in the city.

Maybe Dexel has changed their outlook due to events like the pushback against the Barrington demolitions. I think they may have exceeded the minimum heritage bar for Press Block. The potential for this block really goes beyond Maxwell's Plum since it's the biggest drag on what's overall a pretty vibrant area. A couple of good developments in key spots could tie together Spring Garden Road and the nightlife area and add a lot of commercial potential in the long run.

Last edited by someone123; Mar 28, 2021 at 8:52 PM.
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  #10231  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
I can't imagine that owning a popular bar in the middle of downtown Halifax is a bad business to be in, either. It would seem to make lot of business sense to be the developer who saves one of the city's landmark pubs, and uses it as the cornerstone (almost literally) of a new development.

Think of it now: "Live at The Plum on Grafton. One-bedrooms starting at $599,000; biggest beer selection in the city literally at your doorstep."
The new owners have reduced the Beer selection down from 100 to 60.
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  #10232  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 12:21 AM
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A couple of good developments in key spots could tie together Spring Garden Road and the nightlife area and add a lot of commercial potential in the long run.
Right now there is a pretty strong disconnect between this part of downtown and SGR, I agree that pushing that vibrancy through some of the surface lots would really tie in SGR to the downtown in a meaningful way.
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  #10233  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 3:06 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Random thoughts from a 'regular guy on the internet who is not a planning expert':
I've been looking forward to the 'bank bunker' being taken down for years. It served its purpose, but is definitely a blight on the downtown now. It would be great if the Maxwell's building could somehow be incorporated into whatever new development goes in there, but it would have to somehow involve maintaining the existing structure, which I can't see them doing (maybe I'll be surprised). Who knows? It could involve an incorporation into the new structure a la Durty Nelly's, or maybe it will just go away (Maxwell's has been closed for some time now).

Regarding tying in the downtown to SGR, I'm not sure this alone would do it for those who feel it, but to be honest I don't really feel a disconnect when I'm there. I know it's just a two minute walk to get wherever I want to go. IMHO, if anything, I find that the Maritime Centre building cuts the downtown off from SGR more than anything...

Some retail/bar/restaurant frontage along Grafton is a must, IMHO, but anything will be better than the 'bank bunker'. Looking forward to witnessing the result...
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  #10234  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Random thoughts from a 'regular guy on the internet who is not a planning expert':
I've been looking forward to the 'bank bunker' being taken down for years. It served its purpose, but is definitely a blight on the downtown now. It would be great if the Maxwell's building could somehow be incorporated into whatever new development goes in there, but it would have to somehow involve maintaining the existing structure, which I can't see them doing (maybe I'll be surprised). Who knows? It could involve an incorporation into the new structure a la Durty Nelly's, or maybe it will just go away (Maxwell's has been closed for some time now).

Regarding tying in the downtown to SGR, I'm not sure this alone would do it for those who feel it, but to be honest I don't really feel a disconnect when I'm there. I know it's just a two minute walk to get wherever I want to go. IMHO, if anything, I find that the Maritime Centre building cuts the downtown off from SGR more than anything...

Some retail/bar/restaurant frontage along Grafton is a must, IMHO, but anything will be better than the 'bank bunker'. Looking forward to witnessing the result...
I think it's under the view plane, so I doubt we'll see any landmark developments for this site which is a shame due to the size of the lot and location.

Working with what we have - I think a nice "Velo" style building with a good mid-rise street wall, ground floor retail, and tasteful variance on building material to break up this huge lot would fit really well here.
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  #10235  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2021, 12:47 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by mleblanc View Post
I think it's under the view plane, so I doubt we'll see any landmark developments for this site which is a shame due to the size of the lot and location.

Working with what we have - I think a nice "Velo" style building with a good mid-rise street wall, ground floor retail, and tasteful variance on building material to break up this huge lot would fit really well here.
I like your idea of using variances in materials to break up the building, as it's going to be a long one - almost a 'block buster' actually (another argument for saving the Maxwell's Plum bldg... lol). I'm assuming they own the surface parking lot on the corner of Market and Blowers as well?

I wonder what the max height is allowed on this lot? The Dillon has to be 9 or 10 floors on the back side, so there should be allowance for some height in that location, even if it's not a huge tower.

Whatever they do, it will be an improvement over the current situation. I'm glad to see something happening there.
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  #10236  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 2:09 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Post-bonus height limit is 28 metres on that site. So probably 8-9 storeys, depending on the design.
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  #10237  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 6:32 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Post-bonus height limit is 28 metres on that site. So probably 8-9 storeys, depending on the design.
It's insane how we've been normalized to these formulas... 8-9 stories is a laughable height for this site.
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  #10238  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 6:36 PM
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It's insane how we've been normalized to these formulas... 8-9 stories is a laughable height for this site.
I believe this one has to do with preserving views between the Citadel and George's Island so at least it does have a coherent rationale. And maybe it has become more valuable now that the island is open to the public.

I can't help but notice though how there is a cone of crappy development emanating from the Citadel around this area, extending over the likes of the MetroPark.
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  #10239  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 6:54 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I believe this one has to do with preserving views between the Citadel and George's Island so at least it does have a coherent rationale. And maybe it has become more valuable now that the island is open to the public.

I can't help but notice though how there is a cone of crappy development emanating from the Citadel around this area, extending over the likes of the MetroPark.
I guess in this case... but the RCMP site (although not DT) has similar kind of metrics imposed.

In the end, I'm not sure Centre plan is a succcess.
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  #10240  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:36 PM
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I guess in this case... but the RCMP site (although not DT) has similar kind of metrics imposed.

In the end, I'm not sure Centre plan is a succcess.
I'm quite sure it isn't.

It is in part the result of wannabe planners like Mason and Austin acting like management staff and dictating what they wanted to see in the thing.
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