Rapid Transit

[NortheastWind]

Ontario Ministry of Transportation is seeking feedback on the Hamilton LRT project.
https://twitter.com/ONtransport/stat...34774911807494

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by NortheastWind

Ontario Ministry of Transportation is seeking feedback on the Hamilton LRT project.
https://twitter.com/ONtransport/stat...34774911807494

Because the last 14 years haven't yielded sufficient information

Hopefully the BTFA lives up to it's name...

[Markus83]

You can download the pdf of this bill of the B.T.F.A. 2020 from this page.

https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-b...ion-1/bill-171

[matt602]

It's still hilarious to me that they canceled it 2 years ago and now they're scrambling to fast track it. This province is a joke, no matter who is in charge.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by matt602

It's still hilarious to me that they canceled it 2 years ago and now they're scrambling to fast track it. This province is a joke, no matter who is in charge.

The "cancel" was always s thing that was pushed by Skelly. Somehow Ford agreed to it, and, well, they saw the backlash. I really don't think they anticipated such a fierce reaction. Since then (it's actually only been a little over a year), the PCs have been backtracking.

It's also a convenient excuse for them to cut the majority of the cost of their books. Before they were liable for a ~$3 billion cost of construction, now it's conveniently just $1 billion by a bit of wordsmithing.

With a push from the city and Metrolinx to keep the LRT, they are trying to line the project up for a good chunk of federal COVID infrastructure spending. They are actually doing this on a few projects - the Yonge Subway extension is proposing to add or remove stations depending on how much funding the feds cough up.


I really hope the feds give enough cash for the whole line. Anything short of Eastgate is going to give up a lot of ridership and force transfers until it can get built.

[thistleclub]

‘What if I wanted bus rapid transit?’ — Hamilton council not ready to endorse fast-tracked LRT pitched by province
(Hamilton Spectator, Matthew Van Dongen, Apr 8 2021)

City councillors have asked for more time to weigh in on a provincial plan to designate Hamilton’s still-theoretical LRT a “priority project” under the law — and at least a few are ready to derail the proposed light rail resurrection.

The Tory government announced in February it is willing to pay $1 billion to build a shorter version of the LRT it controversially cancelled 15 months ago — but only if the federal Liberals cover the rest of the tab.

Ontario is submitting LRT as a “priority project” for federal funding and proposing to use that designation to speed up construction under a new law, the Building Transit Faster Act. Council has until April 23 to comment on the regulation.

But some councillors complained Wednesday they don’t know enough about evolving provincial plans to endorse or reject a resurrected LRT, let alone comment on a law designed to fast-track construction.

“What if I didn’t want LRT on the priority list? What if I wanted bus rapid transit?” asked Coun. Brad Clark, a longtime project opponent. Councillors Judi Partridge, Tom Jackson and Brenda Johnson also reiterated concerns or outright opposition to a resurrected LRT line at Wednesday’s meeting.

Coun. Lloyd Ferguson, a past LRT supporter, questioned why council has not been consulted on major changes the province is proposing to the original 14-kilometre line from McMaster University to Eastgate Square.

In February, the province suggested the first phase of LRT could end near Gage Park in order to save money. But even a shortened line would cost $2.5 billion-plus to build. “I need to know whether we’re going to be on the hook (for cost overruns,)” Ferguson said.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger, who is championing LRT, argued ongoing negotiations to resurrect the project “shouldn’t come as any surprise to anyone” given the findings of a provincial task force last year recommending rapid transit.

Read it in full here.

[ScreamingViking]

Dougie and friends probably figured council was likely to respond this way, eventually putting the project into a coffin.

And then they can say "hey folks, we tried but the city didn't want it" and their hands will be clean.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I can't believe city council still has any say at all at this point... This should be a quick switch response to something the city already approved

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

I can't believe city council still has any say at all at this point... This should be a quick switch response to something the city already approved

The problem is that with the line cut back to Gage, it would likely lose support of a few east end councillors.

The last minute change in the liberal plan to extend it to Eastgate from Queenston Circle was because they realized council wouldn't support it otherwise.

I agree this should be out of council's hands at this point - just like how the Toronto Subway projects were taken from the hands of that council (much to their behest). For whatever reason, the nature of municipal politics seems to make councils very fickle creatures that struggle to properly manage large scale projects like this.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The problem is that with the line cut back to Gage, it would likely lose support of a few east end councillors.

The last minute change in the liberal plan to extend it to Eastgate from Queenston Circle was because they realized council wouldn't support it otherwise.

I agree this should be out of council's hands at this point - just like how the Toronto Subway projects were taken from the hands of that council (much to their behest). For whatever reason, the nature of municipal politics seems to make councils very fickle creatures that struggle to properly manage large scale projects like this.

It's because rather than advocate for their entire city, municipal councillors typically advocate for their own ward alone. The only person expected to advocate for the city as a whole is the mayor. We've seen this, time and time again, that suburban councillors oppose downtown things, while downtown councillors approve much of the suburbs desires to attempt to get at least something through. A project that covers many ward is too complex for a municipal council containing mostly lucky locals, and a few actual idiots. At least Toronto has a large council so the literal morons are kept at bay, but in Hamilton we have like 5 or 6 way out of their element councillors.

[ScreamingViking]

I think Ferguson really only gave his support because he wanted council's backing for his pet project in Ancaster, the performing arts centre. He seems to be forgetting about that tradeoff.

Collins has never really been supportive of the LRT either, despite voting in favour. He's now changing tunes.

Clark has waffled on his support, and now seems to be a firm believer that BRT is the better option. But what he means by that may just be more express buses on more routes, not dedicated bus lanes that a true BRT system requires.

Others like Whitehead and Partridge really don't have a clue, but claim to know best. Whitehead even did his own report on the potential benefits of LRT vs. BRT, which was criticized by people who know very well how to do balanced empirical research.


For whatever reason, Hamilton councils have for a long time been among of the worst in the country (if not THE worst) for dithering and dragging out big decisions. We see it with the LRT issue, it happened with the stadium, it happened with the Red Hill Valley Parkway (across decades!), and other things. They've also been really stellar at looking gift horses in the mouth and passing on offers from higher levels of government... Hamilton could have had a skytrain-type system in the early 1980s, fully funded by the province, but said no thanks. Had that been built, we'd probably have seen the system incrementally expanded over the years and I doubt there would be much debate about doing so because the benefits and impacts would be clear.

It's maddening.

[craftbeerdad]

"The new phone book's here. The new phone book's here!"


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...eral-1.6021947

The federal government is giving $12 billion to transit projects in the Greater Toronto Area, including "one rapid transit project" in Hamilton.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made the announcement in a media briefing on Tuesday.

"We're going to provide major support for rapid transit in Hamilton, for a line that will go from McMaster University in the west, through downtown, all the way to Eastgate Centennial Park in Stoney Creek," he said.

The province recently revived a multi-billion-dollar light rail transit (LRT) system in Hamilton in February.

The provincial government said it would put money toward the project, as long as the federal government chipped in too.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

"The new phone book's here. The new phone book's here!"


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...eral-1.6021947

Holy crap, that's very clear and explicit statement of support. It's happening!

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Oh boy, time to watch the clock slowly tick to 1.

Couldn't be more excited.

[catcher_of_cats]

I truly want to believe that this project will be restarted with shovels in the ground by next construction season. But my gut says that someone like a certain mountain MPP or certain city councilors will will find a way to infinitely delay this project through bogus roadblocks. I don't want to be pessimistic but living in Hamilton has made me this way.

[Innsertnamehere]

While some funding was expected, its great to see the full length original line is being retained. It’s super important that the east end reaches Eastgate in the first phase. It’s good to see that’s being retained.

[urban_planner]

When it come too LRT I'm Hamilton and looking at comments on social media, it really exposes how ignorant people are on the subject. It's actually really unfortunate. As much as we like to blame city hall for this a lot of the blame needs to be put on residents. I'm not saying this across the board but people complaining about it without actually having any really knowledge. They just continue to whine about it not serving every part of the city, or a train to nowhere etc etc.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

They just continue to whine about it not serving every part of the city, or a train to nowhere etc etc.

God, I hate that sentiment. What exactly do they define as nowhere? The University? 2 shopping malls? a dozen commercial avenues? The ENTIRE lower city??

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

The CBC is hosting a live announcement now. It's focus is on the Torontonian transport investments, our formal announcement is set to be the 13th.

What we do now know is our project shall be

Rapid - They're not just buying new busses.

Far-reaching - It shall extend from University Plaza to Eastgate. No stopping at Gage.

The cost shall be evenly divided between the province and feds - 1,700,000,000 each, with the city responsible for operating costs.

The HSR might end up with an SR again after all.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

When it come too LRT I'm Hamilton and looking at comments on social media, it really exposes how ignorant people are on the subject. It's actually really unfortunate. As much as we like to blame city hall for this a lot of the blame needs to be put on residents. I'm not saying this across the board but people complaining about it without actually having any really knowledge. They just continue to whine about it not serving every part of the city, or a train to nowhere etc etc.

Whiners are always loudest. I think the results from the municipal election show that they're only a noisy minority, with the only-AntiLRT-and-nothing-else candidate only getting 38% compared to Fred at 54%.

I know that the individual councillors vote makes a big difference, but I have to believe the support is really there.

I say "have to", because otherwise.... I despair at the future

Lets go LRT