World Exchange Cinema Closure

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

A friend an I were planning to see a specific movie yesterday that had been playing at the World Exchange. The alternate location was Kanata. We didn't go. The alternative was the Bytowne but there were 1 hour parking restrictions it seemed everywhere. It is becoming so difficult to enjoy our downtown.

If Kanata Centrum is becoming the cultural centre of the city, we are in big trouble.

Errr, didn't consider parking at one of the pay lots? You eschewed entertainment all together to avoid paying for parking?

If you define 'enjoying our downtown' as free surface parking near things, today is the best it will ever be for you.

[waterloowarrior]

There is free parking on Besserer and other side streets or $3 parking at the Loblaws garage.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Errr, didn't consider parking at one of the pay lots? You eschewed entertainment all together to avoid paying for parking?

If you define 'enjoying our downtown' as free surface parking near things, today is the best it will ever be for you.

We did pay for parking but it was several blocks away. The cost was not the issue. If you don't go downtown regularly, you don't know all the parking locations. And the street parking with the 1 hour restrictions was entirely empty. It seemed to be designed to discourage people from parking there at all, just like some people in the Glebe would like to keep people from going to Lansdowne. What is parking policy for? To encourage reasonable turnover or to just discourage people from coming into the area, including the neighbouring stores and other businesses. It seems that some people want the quietness of the suburbs while living a block from a busy downtown street.

My friend's reaction was, let's not go downtown again. You just repeat this frustration thousands of times over with other people and you start seeing why downtown is not thriving.

I had similar experience in Westboro a few years back. Ridiculous parking restrictions and empty streets. No parking meters even to allow you extend your stay. Not enough time to enjoy a meal at a special restaurant, where another table was expressing the exact same concern. I liked the restaurant but I have not gone back because of the parking restrictions. I even complained to the city councillor of the area, who just sluffed me off. So, I told him, I will take my money elsewhere, which is exactly what I did.

If you want to design neighbourhoods for local walk in traffic and transit users only, fine, but then don't complain when movie houses and other businesses are dying or won't move in.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

There is free parking on Besserer and other side streets or $3 parking at the Loblaws garage.

We went to Besserer and the neighbouring streets and it all had 1 hour parking restrictions. Not long enough to take in a movie, enjoy a meal or do much of anything. The streets were entirely empty.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We went to Besserer and the neighbouring streets and it all had 1 hour parking restrictions. Not long enough to take in a movie, enjoy a meal or do much of anything. The streets were entirely empty.

That is true but the 1 hr limit does not apply evenings and weekends which would be the prime dinner/movie times.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We did pay for parking but it was several blocks away. The cost was not the issue. If you don't go downtown regularly, you don't know all the parking locations.

That's a good point. The BIA's may get more business if explain parking options to people unfamiliar with the area.

I would agree with the person who suggested the Loblaws garage. It is fairly cheap and a half block from the Bytowne.

[NOWINYOW]

The city fails in its bid to create a "vibrant" downtown. As others here have expressed, the ridiculously restrictive parking hours is a big part of it. With technology, there should be no reason why a person can't top up their street parking fee using a phone. If the streets become crowded with long-term parkers, the city still gets the money regardless. Instead, the city wants people to use transit. Look where that's got them! Empty streets, local businesses struggling and developers creating new shopping/entertainment complexes outside of the downtown core. If the mayor and councillors can't see this, it's the fault of the voters who keep putting them in power.

[lrt's friend]

I really don't think we can have successful theatre complexes depending on only walk in traffic and transit. A lot of people don't feel comfortable using transit after dark.

I am in favour of the downtown tunnel, and intensification but if we want our downtown to thrive, it has to be accessible to a wider portion of the population. A single 11km transit line does not deliver the demographics needed.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I really don't think we can have successful theatre complexes depending on only walk in traffic and transit. A lot of people don't feel comfortable using transit after dark.

I am in favour of the downtown tunnel, and intensification but if we want our downtown to thrive, it has to be accessible to a wider portion of the population. A single 11km transit line does not deliver the demographics needed.

Nobody is making downtown car-free, and it has always been feasible to drive and park for free to see a movie at the WEP after hours. In reality, there are very few cinemas that are convenient to transit. Most of the large suburban complexes that have far superior theatres (IMAX etc.) are a fair walk from a transitway station or bus stop, often involving crossing a vast parking lot.

I really don't get your cry about LRT making downtown any less accessible by other means of transportation. Traffic capacity and inner city bus routes will remain more or less the same, if not better with the removal of surface rapid transit.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Nobody is making downtown car-free, and it has always been feasible to drive and park for free to see a movie at the WEP after hours. In reality, there are very few cinemas that are convenient to transit. Most of the large suburban complexes that have far superior theatres (IMAX etc.) are a fair walk from a transitway station or bus stop, often involving crossing a vast parking lot.

I really don't get your cry about LRT making downtown any less accessible by other means of transportation. Traffic capacity and inner city bus routes will remain more or less the same, if not better with the removal of surface rapid transit.

Yes, and I did take advantage of free parking at World Exchange on many occasions but presumably no more.

My point on transit is that in the shorter term anyways, the part of the city with easy access to downtown will shrink considerably with Phase I of the Confederation Line. Likewise, many of the central bus routes with all day service will also have less coverage. We all know that many bus routes that run downtown today will be discontinued with the opening of the Confederation Line and I am not talking about suburban express routes.

Overall, we are not creating a good environment for entertainment facilities to thrive downtown. The trend has been to more parking restrictions, higher parking fees, and less frequent and less direct transit service.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I really don't think we can have successful theatre complexes depending on only walk in traffic and transit. A lot of people don't feel comfortable using transit after dark.

I am in favour of the downtown tunnel, and intensification but if we want our downtown to thrive, it has to be accessible to a wider portion of the population. A single 11km transit line does not deliver the demographics needed.

Actually, 12.5 km, 20.5 km if you count the O-Train (despite the transfer). And stage 2 will make access to downtown easier. Not for everyone, but for a lot of people. It's not perfect (I would prefer urban subway lines), but it's better than what we currently have.

As for the initial line, even though it will not make it any easier to access downtown, it will make for a much more pleasant place to hang out. Cleaner, quieter, wider sidewalks...

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

As for the initial line, even though it will not make it any easier to access downtown, it will make for a much more pleasant place to hang out. Cleaner, quieter, wider sidewalks...

Unless there is something next to do on the inside of those sidewalks, they could be five miles wide, and still won't attract anything other than airborne debris.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Unless there is something next to do on the inside of those sidewalks, they could be five miles wide, and still won't attract anything other than airborne debris.

I'm talking about a more pleasant experience, or in the case of wider sidewalks, better circulation. Wider sidewalks aren't necessarily about attracting people and businesses. When you can barely walk side by side with someone on a downtown sidewalk, it's a problem.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm talking about a more pleasant experience, or in the case of wider sidewalks, better circulation. Wider sidewalks aren't necessarily about attracting people and businesses. When you can barely walk side by side with someone on a downtown sidewalk, it's a problem.

Yes, but you aren't going to hang out on a sidewalk if there's not a useful and interesting building on the inside of it.

Most of the CBD lacks that. The form and function of the building is a much more important factor than the width of the sidewalk. Most downtown Ottawa buildings suck, and until better ones are built, or existing ones desucked, there will be no life on those sidewalks.

And no better ones will be built as long as the city keep approving garbitechture instead of growing some balls and saying "no" once in a while.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yes, but you aren't going to hang out on a sidewalk if there's not a useful and interesting building on the inside of it.

Most of the CBD lacks that. The form and function of the building is a much more important factor than the width of the sidewalk. Most downtown Ottawa buildings suck, and until better ones are built, or existing ones desucked, there will be no life on those sidewalks.

And no better ones will be built as long as the city keep approving garbitechture instead of growing some balls and saying "no" once in a while.

Convenience for 100,000 people who work on 31 city blocks. I call that life on the sidewalk, even if it is only 3 times a day.

With the streets becoming less hostile thanks to the reduction of bus traffic and the widening of sidewalks, it might also encourage more restaurants and cafés at the base of office towers and they might open up to the sidewalks with terraces.

The point is, wider sidewalks is not a magical solution for downtown, but it can't hurt. It's one more thing that could help with a revitalisation.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

With the streets becoming less hostile thanks to the reduction of bus traffic and the widening of sidewalks, it might also encourage more restaurants and cafés at the base of office towers and they might open up to the sidewalks with terraces.

Many of those buildings are so "hardened" at street level, that it's very difficult to convert them to such uses. Many building owners are also dead-set against de-hardening.

The point is, wider sidewalks is not a magical solution for downtown, but it can't hurt. It's one more thing that could help with a revitalisation.

It can't hurt, no, but without changes to existing buildings, and stronger political will to get better quality new and replacement architecture, it's not going to help, not on its own.

But Ottawa has no such political will, and actually seems to embrace and encourage garbitechture. What a town.

[jaynone]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We did pay for parking but it was several blocks away. The cost was not the issue. If you don't go downtown regularly, you don't know all the parking locations. And the street parking with the 1 hour restrictions was entirely empty. It seemed to be designed to discourage people from parking there at all, just like some people in the Glebe would like to keep people from going to Lansdowne. What is parking policy for? To encourage reasonable turnover or to just discourage people from coming into the area, including the neighbouring stores and other businesses. It seems that some people want the quietness of the suburbs while living a block from a busy downtown street.

My friend's reaction was, let's not go downtown again. You just repeat this frustration thousands of times over with other people and you start seeing why downtown is not thriving.

I had similar experience in Westboro a few years back. Ridiculous parking restrictions and empty streets. No parking meters even to allow you extend your stay. Not enough time to enjoy a meal at a special restaurant, where another table was expressing the exact same concern. I liked the restaurant but I have not gone back because of the parking restrictions. I even complained to the city councillor of the area, who just sluffed me off. So, I told him, I will take my money elsewhere, which is exactly what I did.

If you want to design neighbourhoods for local walk in traffic and transit users only, fine, but then don't complain when movie houses and other businesses are dying or won't move in.

Westoboro has free street parking? Your complaint is that they don't have parking meters and the streets are empty?

My big complaint with street parking in Ottawa is that we don't allow it in many locations during rush hour, even when the parking lane isn't a traffic lane.

[OTSkyline]

I work in a downtown hotel and had guests last night wanting to go to the movies. Asking me:

Them "How can we get to the Rideau Centre Cinema?"
Me "Oh, that one is closed"
Them "Are there any other ones close"
Me "Well there used to be the one at WEP, but that one just closed a couple of days ago too"
Them "So, any others?"
Me "You would have to take a 15min (15/20$ taxi ride one-way) to get to the nearest cinema.
Them "Nevermind -____-"

This is pathetic...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Many of those buildings are so "hardened" at street level, that it's very difficult to convert them to such uses. Many building owners are also dead-set against de-hardening.

We have seen some efforts from private companies (and private companies who run federal buildings) over the past few years. Think of the new Minto Tower on Kent (although it's a new build, not a re-vamp) with Royal Oak, the Delta City Centre and the new 3 Brasseurs du Temps in the C.D. Howe Building. Now we have Morguard who might do something nice with the old Delta Complex and Zellers. We also have Metcalfe Realty re-vamping it's MacDonald Building on Metcalfe and Albert.

It's a slow process, but I'm hopeful for the future.

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I work in a downtown hotel and had guests last night wanting to go to the movies. Asking me:

Them "How can we get to the Rideau Centre Cinema?"
Me "Oh, that one is closed"
Them "Are there any other ones close"
Me "Well there used to be the one at WEP, but that one just closed a couple of days ago too"
Them "So, any others?"
Me "You would have to take a 15min (15/20$ taxi ride one-way) to get to the nearest cinema.
Them "Nevermind -____-"

This is pathetic...

What an embarrassment! Even with the Lansdowne Theatre (if it ever opens) "walk 2-3 blocks, wait for an overcrowded bus for 10-40 minutes and you'll be there 15-30 minutes later. Last bus back is at 11:41 pm, so make sure your movie doesn't finish too late and don't grab a bite to eat after".

[ortelius]

Yeah it sucks, but hopefully it's a transition phase. It'd be nice to have one at Lansdowne and one at the Rideau Centre and keep the Bytown and Mayfair for other types of movies.
I used to live in Calgary and the best option was out at the Chinook Centre, sort of like Blair here. I think there was one downtown.
Montreal has the Pepsi Forum and Scotia Complexes (not to mention the French ones), 1.5km apart, but it is a denser downtown and bigger city. But I remember when I lived there, there was one at the Faubourg on Guy/Ste-Catherine, it closed. There was one on Ste-Catherine that offered 2.5$ movies, it closed. I think there was one at the Eaton Centre too? The Pepsi Forum wasn't opened yet.